Current T206 market and pondering Wagner value

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Posted By: Damian Anderson

I am sure quite a few have pondered this and I am sorry if a similar thread has been posted, BUT what does everyone think the McNall/Grestky Wagner would bring today if auctioned? I think it would easily be a 5 million dollar card. In addition what would previously unknown Wagners in higher grades garner if they surfaced without the infamous card being sold? For example if a PSA/SGC 7 surfaced what would hammer price be? How about a 6 or 5? Just wanted opinions for when I find it!!

Damian

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

$5,000,000? Wow. You could own quite a couple of complete T206 sets with a lower grade Wagner for that kind of money.

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Posted By: Dave

IMO I don't think the Gretzky card would bring 5 million...yet...2-3 million....I could see. As far as any others that would turn up also difficult to say with the way Wagners tend to sell. I think it has alot to do with what venue they sell on..which auction house, or I guess if someone decided to list one on ebay etc. With the last PSA 2 going for over $200k there is quite alot of money on the table for a 5 or 6 that would surface.

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Posted By: peter ullman

this topic has been discussed recently...but...5 mill is way high. I personally don't like it as it's trimmed...I'd prefer a nice vg. No more than 2 mil today.

pete in mn

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Posted By: fkw

I just read somewhere where it was rumored to have been sold for 2 mil privately.

I'll see if I can find the story

Edited to say I cant find the reference, But I know I just read it within the last 2 weeks. It was a side note to the $230K PSA-2 Wagner sale.

I think the original story I read my have been edited to remove the rumor

Anyone else see it?

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Posted By: Dave

With the Wagner thought by many to be trimmed....curious if you SGC guys think that if the owner attempted a crossover, would SGC give it a numerical grade?? Would they do that (if it is trimmed) just to have thier slab around the card? Or would they do the honorable thing (if it is trimmed) and not grade it???

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Not only is it trimmed, but it was also torn into 4 pieces by David Copperfield.

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Posted By: Damian Anderson

I understand about the whole T argument about this card and strongly want to steer the topic off of that. Dave, I am assuming that the seller of a previously unknown Wagner is selling by using one of the most high profile venues i.e Mastro. I don't think $5 million is out of the question for the famed card considering the current market and high exposure for this card for non collectors/investors that would be bidding. If it sold for 2 million privately I think that is a HUGE bargain. If I am not mistaken, didn't the crappy Mcguire homerun ball fetch slightly more than the last
auction price for the PSA 8 Wagner? Again most respect more all opinions.

Damian

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Posted By: Dave

I thought the last thing I read was that the guy that bought the Wagner last had no plans to sell anytime soon. He had always wanted the card and his wife basically told him to get it, no matter cost if he wanted it. So not sure he was trying to turn a dollar. But I could be wrong on that.

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Posted By: Mark Burke

I believe the card was sold in 1996 for $640K. So, roughly doubled in 5 years or so, to $1.2M+. If nothing happened to make the card less valuable like finding a few more examples at this grade or better, then 2X $1.2M seems about right. $2.4M.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

i also heard that it just sold for about $2.3M...

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Posted By: fkw

OK Im not crazy. I found it. The reference is in the new "Old Cardboard" magazine (issue #10) on page 8.

(In the story about the PSA-2 that just sold for $230K)

""While this is no doubt a price record for a Wagner graded "Good", other higher grade cards have sold for much more. The famous "Gretzky" near-perfect Wagner was purchased in 1993 for $450,000. It later sold for $640,500. Purchaser Mike Gidwitz has since sold it for about $1.2 million and it is rumored that it sold again privately last year in the $2 million range.""

Anyone know anything more?

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Posted By: JimB

I heard it was sold to somebody outside the hobby.
JimB

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

For what it's worth, the card is still part of the same t206 HOF PSA Registered set since 2002.

http://www.psacard.com/set%5Fregistry/display_cards.chtml?rsetid=2997&alltime=yes&rank=1&tied=0&requesttimeout=9999

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Posted By: MVSNYC

i bet the new owner is extremely private and low key...they didn't want to make any big waves in the hobby about the sale...it is easy to just keep the card in the previous set reg...

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Posted By: fessgreg

rumor has it the wagner has been sold for 2 million something with installments of 100k per month. so there would be no note of a transaction until all payments are completed. Greg

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Posted By: Mark

The Wagner is way over-valued, in my humble opinion - there are hundreds of cards rarer than the Wagner. I would take a E221 any day over it....

As for the original question: Some fool would pay $1.5M or $2M for it;
now imagine if it wasn't trimmed....

Mark

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Posted By: MVSNYC

---"The Wagner is way over-valued, in my humble opinion - there are hundreds of cards rarer than the Wagner."

...of course there are cards that are "rarer"...BUT, no other card has the combination of legend, mystique, and folk-lore surrounding it...not to mention that it is Honus (one of the greatest SS ever)...and it is a cool looking portrait to boot...


say what you all want, but the Wagner will ALWAYS be the Holy Grail...

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Posted By: fessgreg

Agree that if its trimmed it should not be worth anywhere close to 2 million dollars. And there are much rarer cards even in the t206 like the plank. But collectibles are kind of funny there's a tradition involved so the wagner like mvs says will always be worth a lot. If I had the money I'd buy the greatest t206 plank out there for 300/400k not a wagner. But that's my personal opinion. When you talk about high priced cards money gets involved and a high price wagner will outperform a high priced plank. How are you doing mvs with your t206's. I never bought the t206 bmw sgc 92 willie keeler but i still think about it.

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Posted By: Mark

MVS, why the defensive position? Simply put, you have your opinion and I have mine.

Is there some other motive?

- Mark
mrios@hotmail.com

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Posted By: fkw

I agree that its overrated. Its crazy price/value is status symbol driven. Like the 1952 Topps Mantle to a lesser degree.


But so is a Ferrari, and people still buy them too.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I don't think it's overrated. It's rare (scarce by baseball card standards I guess) but it is a legendary card. It has a story behind it that's most likely just urban legend (Wagner was anti-smoking), it's a beautiful card from the most popular set....most non-collecting people have heard of the card....and card collectors have been chasing this card for nearly 100 years now. I don't really have a problem with the Wagner being considered the Holy Grail of our hobby even though other cards even a lot of Wagner cards are rarer.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

If it was a legit psa 8 and not altered then I think it would be a $5 million card. What keeps it at less than half of that are the rather convincing stories that the card has been altered.

Jim

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Posted By: fessgreg

I agree the wagner is overrated and I also don't have a problem with it,since i'll probably never buy one. But see money gets involved in these things. A wagner will outperform a t206 plank which is twice a rare(or something like that). But like I said for me I would buy the best t206 plank out there,enjoy it,and pocket the rest of the money. Forget the wagner.

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Posted By: mvsnyc

fess- collection is shaping up nice...i just acquired some more "rarities" (demmitt 3, ohara 2, drum 4)...and more 7's & 8's.

mark- didn't mean to come across defensive (i'm a New Yawka, just the way i am)
no hidden plan, i don't have a wagner that i am looking to promote/sell...

dan- well said.

edited to say that i have no idea why i am up so early, i was drinking johhnie walker at a lounge until 4am...

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Posted By: fessgreg

nice to see you got a demmitt in 3. a 4 in psa smr is 3800. that's a rare card. where did you get it from? nice to hear from you again. after you get over your hangover tell me all about the demmitt. signed fess greg

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Posted By: MVSNYC

a close friend of mine bought the demmitt about 2 months ago off of eBay...we did a big trade, and i got the demmitt 3 & a DRUM 4...the demmitt is a very clean example, just some corner wear...

be well.
MS