VintageCardPrices...new features

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Posted By: Bobby

We have officailly been up for a month now and the feedback has been tremendous. I just wanted to inform the board on some new features we have added to the site.

My Collection alerts: Now you will be notified via email every time a card in your collection by the exact grade and grader sells in auction with a link to the profile for you to see. This is at your contol to turn off or on by the individual cards.

Search Assistant: This makes it so that you can go back up to 10 pages with a single click. It is great for when you are adding sets to "My Collection" and you can get back to the set with a single click versus 5 before..this feature will be available in the next day or two.

"Want List": You can create a want list in the same fashion as "My Collection", create groups and add the cards and you specify the graders and minimum grade you want. Since we auction watch eBay when a card from your "Want List" becomes available you will be notified via email with the detail and eBay id number. THis feature should be available in time for the National next week.

Thanks fo rall the support and we are working hard to make this site for every one.

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Posted By: jay behrens

This is nothing personal against any of these sites, but at what point do we draw line between legit posts for this forum and outright advertising for these sites. Seems to me that this type of post should have gone out on their email list, although I understand why they posted here. They want to generate more business. Hence my question as to where does the line get drawn.

Jay

Growing old is not optional, growing up is.

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Posted By: Keith O'Leary

I've found the site to be a very affordable, worthwhile, usefull tool and recommend it to both hobby veterans as well as beginning vintage collectors (no vested interest here). I consider myself a veteran but the features make it attractive to me because of the time it saves me.

I just started adding cards to "My Collection" and can see where this is going to be where I keep my set checklists (I currently use the registries, personal paperwork, written in reference books etc). I also know exactly what my cards are worth with auction results to back that up.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Although a part of the motivation of this post may have been advertising, I view this as acquainting us with the technological updates of a utility of interest to collectors.

And although I too used this program over the past month, I also have no vested interest in its success, other than I find it useful; and hope it remains available.

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Posted By: jay behrens

So you think these sites should be able to make posts here every time they make some change to their website? I personally I don't want to see it.

Nothing against them, but we don't allow people advertise their cards for sale here, so why should we let any other product or service be advertised here? Leon was kind enough to let all the competing sites post about their developement and launch. Now is the time for these sites to walk on their own. I am sure that they already have substantial mailing lists to work with and can send out these types of announcements via email. There is enough word of mouth action around here that none of these sites will go unnoticed. If these sites aren't already in the links section, then they should be.

I don't blame them for taking advantage of the free advertising you can get here, but it needs to be nipped in the bud or everyone else with something to sell will want to be able to post here on the main board too.

Jay

Growing old is not optional, growing up is.

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Posted By: Bobby

Sorry Jay I did not know you where the boss maybe they should change the forum title to Jay's Place my way or the highway. I have been active here for 3 years now and seen you get into it with more members then the rest of the membership combined. The idea behind a forum is to help out the community that was created. If you don't like a subject matter then don't read it and go to the ones that you do want to see. The members can choose for themselves if they want to participate in a topic and they don't need you to do it. There used to be a lot of other people that posted here that don't any more because of you chastising them. Did'nt your mother tell you if you have nothing nice to say then don't say it.

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Posted By: Steve M.

Keith and Gil

Jay (I don't know how to make a frowny face)

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Posted By: steve f

You can dress it up all you want, garlic-rosemary focaccia bread, escarole, sundried tomato, Grey Poupon... It's still Spam

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Posted By: Joe D.

if you post on this board, why only expect 'nice' replies?

Posting opens up the door to varying opinions.


Jay seemed very civil in his response.

If anything, Bobby was out of line with his "is this Jays Board" and "didn't your mother teach you" type comments -- which seemed to get personal.


just my opinion. whether that opinion is liked or not


oh and steve... here is a frowny face (colon and then shift-9)

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Posted By: Bobby

This is the second post that I have made in regards to the website. You would think I was posting every other day or something but it's not true. I am bringing the attention to this communty a tool that they can choose to use or not. It's not like I made a post "Just picked up this beauty" and it was not a card but a car...how does that have anything to do with vintage cards? And spamming is a constant barrage of emails or posts to try so solicite you to join a service two posts is not what I would call spamming.

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Posted By: jay behrens

My only comment to Bobby is; very unprofessional

Jay

Growing old is not optional, growing up is.

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Posted By: Matt E.

Jay does this mean you will be cancelling your membership to Vintage Card Prices?

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Posted By: jay behrens

I don't belong to any of the competing sites, so I have no vested interest one way or the other.

Jay

Growing old is not optional, growing up is.

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Posted By: Jason

Bobby-

Dogs will always bark.

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Often an auctioneer will post here alerting us about an upcoming auction. I see nothing wrong in that, nor in Bobby alerting us about new features on his site. I find his site very helpful in tracking card prices and I think it's great to be able to follow a "portfolio" of some of my collections. It would be easy for him to have some of his satisfied customers starting threads periodically about the site, but he has refrained from doing so.

Frank

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Posted By: Griffin's

I"ve found the site to be very beneficial as well, saving me a lot of time (and probably money) when reseaching new sets to start. I don't see any competition at this point that is up and running so I don't think they'll be a blitz of competing posts, and appreciate that Bobby has continued to make improvements. He's also been very responsive in acting on any feedback I"ve given him. The cost is very nominal versus the time involved to research and track prices on your own.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Imho, Jay's opinion has merit: "So you think these sites should be able to make posts here every time they make some change to their website? I personally I don't want to see it".

Right now we have one of these sites active and the technological advantages are not well known, nor are they finalized (I guess). But when we have several, the postings could become a bit much.

Therefore we must exercise caution in the precedents which we set with this initial supplier.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Yes, auction houses are allowed to make ONE post about an upcoming auction. Bobby's site and others like it are a different animal all together. We already know of, and are aware that his and simialr sites are up and running, or close to it. We do not need to be updated each and every time they make an impreovement to the site. Their mailing list should serve that function.

These sites, while they are a benefit to collectors, are a business enterprise no different than auction houses, dealers, etc. If we let them post about updates to their site, then do we also allow dealers to come in post on the main forum updates to their site? I really don't want to see that as the main board would start to be flooded with threads from businesses promoting their product and taking away from the what this forum is supposed to be about.

Prime example, we don't see Old Cardboard coming on here telling us that they have updated their site. They use their mailing list to do this.

Businesses would love nothing better than to get a foothold on the main board. Leon has stated several times that he has not alowed any form of advertising because he does not want to deal witht he pressure that comes with it. Using the forum is a backdoor attempt to get around Leon's no ad policy and is taking advantage of his good will.

Jay

Growing old is not optional, growing up is.

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Posted By: Paul Stratton

I haven't signed up yet because I've been waiting for all the "bugs" to be worked out and see all of the services that become available. I do like to keep my own records but time definitely is money and at some point this service may have to take over from the old pen and notebook.

...as far as this being spam...wouldn't Leon do something about it if he thought it was a problem?

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Posted By: barrysloate

While I don't think Bobby meant any harm and was posting in good faith, obviously this has elicited different opinions. As a suggestion: maybe Leon could add a message board to go in the BST area. It could be used for auction houses announcing their auctions and other general public service announcements. That would put everyone on equal footing. Just need to set the ground rules in advance.

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Posted By: leon

I really don't care to get involved in disputes when I can help it but since my name has been thrown around I'll give my thoughts. I am all for helping folks who try to help the hobby. Ask anyone and they will tell you. A lot of times these are business ventures and that's ok by me too. I know REA, Barry, Steve Verkman, and many other auctions have started a thread to let us know what's going on. I enjoy these types of threads as long as they don't get too carried away and turn it into a spam. They haven't so far, as far as I can tell. Jay B. definitely has a right to give his opinion as everyone else does, as long as you put your name by it. I believe I have been as consistent as possible in the way the board has been run, as far as advertising is concerned. My policy on advertisers paying money to have a banner or something hasnt't changed. There aren't any and won't be any. On the rare occasion I thought someone was advertising a little too much I have emailed them privately and they have tempered it. Any questions and you guys know how to find me....best regards

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Paul: I think that Bobby's site is pretty much bug free. However, you have to recognize that what is portrayed is specific information relating to sales of graded cards. Not all sets have sufficient volume of graded cards sold for this portrayal to be meaningful, imo. So if your primary interest is in more thinly traded sets, there may not be sufficient examples available to draw conclusions with the same certainty as the t206 set, for example.

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Posted By: Paul Stratton

I guess I didn't really means bugs. I meant to say I was just waiting to see what others have said and how it worked for them. So far it seems a majority of people like the service. Whether it will work for me or not is the question. I just figured as time passed more information and images would be added and at that point it may be worth my $. But I really do like putting stuff in a ledger by hand...

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Posted By: Steve M.

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Posted By: edacra

Some message boards have a system to make a sticky post for promotional topics, on exchange for a small fee to cover some bandwith costs. Maybe that's not a bad idea. I think these type of announcements would be better suited in the B/S/T area, unless they were meant to be up for discussion.

I just always keep thinking how much easier it is to collect these days, thanks in part to these websites as options.

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

Bobby,
FYI, I see absolutely no wrong in what you are doing. The site is great. For some to comment so negatively on something so minor as this is pretty sad actually.
Keep up the great work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards, Tony Andrea

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Posted By: jay behrens

I love how you knee jerk idiots have made out my response to this post as an attack on Bobby and his site. Maybe you guys should read my post a little more closely.

I never once said anything bad about Bobby or his site. I wish him nothing but the best of luck in his venture and harbor no ill will towards him. My concern lies with the direction that a post like this will take the board. We had a major board split over the board losing focus a few years ago. If we let businesses announce every update they make on the main board, then this board will be swamped with those posts. What smart business person wouldn't take advantage of free advertising to your target market? You can rest assured though, that will drive away far more people than I've supposedly driven away.

cardpricer.com, Old Cardboard or some other business could have made this post and my response would have been exactly the same. I don't want to see the main forum turn into a place that is devoted to promoting business.

Jay

Growing old is not optional, growing up is.

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Posted By: Rich

Well, I'm not sure if I'm considered one who's "advertised", but I did post earlier this week a note seeking folks who'd be interested in writing for the new hobby news site I've started. Leon was good enough to let me do it and the offer is still open. I'd love to find someone who can regularly contribute on pre-War cards.

The goal is to reach as many collectors as possible and this was one way to do that, but I don't plan to post updates here all the time. Certainly the occasional post about something of interest can't hurt anyone that much.

I believe Jay mentioned "mailing lists" as a way to reach a lot of collectors and no doubt, that's the ideal way to do it. But as someone who's never done this sort of thing before, I'd like to know how to go about finding/creating those lists. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

There are two parts to this, Jay.
One is what you don't want, the other is what you do want.
It is easy to complain, more difficult to be constructive.

Certainly some people want to keep abreast of the technological capabilities of sites including that of Bobby, others want to be aware of the expanding facilities and information available from Old Cardboard, new hobby news vehicles such as that offered by Rich, as well as auction information, and a whole spectrum of general hobby informative material is of interest to many.

So, how do you recommend that this be dealt with differently from the approach used to date?

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Posted By: Joe D.

I think I am with Jay on this one.


First let me say.... I want to hear about new features on sites, I wan't to hear about upcoming auctions, heck if a new vintage card shop opens near me - I wouldn't mind hearing about that too.

But - I think it would be best for those posts to be on the B/S/T portion of this site. Maybe a new subsection on the B/S/T to address this? I would frequent that portion of B/S/T... and when I do I would be more apt to be 'sold' because I am in that frame of mind when I enter.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I agree with Jay but disagree with how he went about doing it.His post could only start something negative like this thread has become.Jay is smart enough to know that he can email Leon and the other moderators(and other board members he knows who could help his cause by emailing the right people) directly if he has a problem but this just seems like he wants to start trouble,then he complained when people disagree with his stance.He obviously saw this post quick and wanted to do something about it but i think he went about it wrong.When i have a problem with posts I go directly to the top which i wouldve done in this case but i think it needs to be said that the moderators can be reached easily and privately and they always take care of problems if there is one and it eliminates the bickering that can and will carry over into other threads.

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Posted By: ralph

Now wait a minute Steve,..In NJ ,I grew up eating Spam (when I wasnt eating pork roll)...and its pleasing to the palate

Ralph

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Posted By: leon

Since there have been a few folks talking about what could be done on the board, operationally, I feel I should chime in once more. I don't think anything is broken and see no need to change anything at this point. The B/S/T pages are perfect in my mind. The B/S/T pages have enough options to satisfy everyone and the main board will continue exactly the way it is. I really do listen...ask BOTN...He's the one that brought up the suggestion (or made me think about it) about having the ebay sales have their own B/S/T page...Best regards and thanks again for the opinions. ...moderator dude

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

You see Jay. Point proven. You actually found a way to put your foot in your mouth once again. At times, I dont think you even see how much of an ass you make yourself to be.
"KNEE JERK IDIOTS" huh. ALL HAIL JAY!!!!!!!!!!! For he is king!!!!!!!!

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Posted By: Joann

I think it definitely should have been brought up here, on the board, and didn't think there was anything impolite about the way it was brought up.

The lead thread about the added features to VintageCardPrices.com sounds a lot like ad text, and many do object to ads on the main board and don't want to see the lack of commercialism corrupted.

But Robert (the author) is primarily a collector before now, this is a new site and new venture, and it seems clear that the last thing he would want to do is violate board norms. (Sorry Robt - I'm not trying to play mind reader or speak for you at all - this is just my take on the possibilities.) It seems like a natural thing to do to inform fellow collectors of new features via the method that collectors use all the time - the main board.

So this is kind of new territory. People generally seem to understand the line between the BST and main portions of the forum for those businesses that are outright commercial, known dealers, long-time business, etc.

But entrepenurial collectors coming up with new things are something of a transition, and once they become clearly commercial I think they and everyone will understand where the lines are drawn.

I just don't think that exchanges of opinions and hashing out different views of emerging facets of the hobby are inappropriate at all for the main board. This is where the general slant of the community is forged, so to speak.

It's unfortunate that sometimes the negative comments are taken personally, and I don't blame anyone for doing so - I probably would too. But I thought Jay was pretty neutral with his post, and it has started a valid discussion.

Oh, and as to the substantive matter - I agree that it seems like advertising, don't want to read update notices as a widespread practice on the main board, and generally have a "slippery slope" conservative approach to any hints of ads here.

But if I were Robert, and it were my site, and I had just added some cool functionality, I would have done the exact same thing and posted it here without really considering the commercialism angle.

FWIW

Joann

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Posted By: jay behrens

Tony, don't be too proud of youself thinking you have me pegged. I am well aware of what my reputation is and those that find me abrasive tend to be very thin skinned or PCs freaks. I have strong opinions and am not afraid voice them. If people find that scary, then internet message boards are the wrong place for these people.

John mentioned that I should have taken a different tact with this post. I've dealt with Leon long enough to know what he expects of the board. If something is contraversial or unchartered territory, Leon tends to see how the board in general responds. This was one of those instances.

I also get a lot of emails from people telling me that they support my position and wish they had the courage to post the same thing publicly. So, in some ways, I am speaking for a silent minority/majority. Whatever the case may be.

Just so people know, I DO NOT keep emails, unless I need it to remind of a pending deal.

My posts are not random pot shots just to stir things up. There is a lot going on behind the scenes on posts like this that people are not aware of. I've never once had anyone that I truely respect from the board tell me that I have crossed the line and completely lost my mind on a post. I listen to the criticisms that I get from those that I respect.

So Tony, no, I'm not going shut up, or go away. You are just going to have to live and deal with it. I'd also think that you would be taking Bobby to task for being the one that made the personal attack. I never made a persoanl attack towards him or hiis business. I'm just an easy target for you because I have a bad boy rep.

Jay

Growing old is not optional, growing up is.

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Posted By: Bobby

Jay,

It is nice that you think you are the keeper of the board and all these people are sending you email praising you. I have to received numerous emails saying what a %#@@ you are and why does he always do these things. So if you think you are representing the majority of this board you are delusional.

You get on people who post cards and sell them trying to promote on the board but you know what you are the guiltiest person of all. You must have posted the scan of your Hofnlan card here 100 times since I have been on this board. Every single person knew you where the owner and then you sell it on REA after you exposed it enough here. And it became a thread with every one talking about your card. You where the only person self-serving on this happening.

I created a site that can be useful to the hobby and on the first thread when I announced it you became the center once again thinking $9.99 a month was too much and the thread became a conversation about the haves and have nots. I benefit by getting members to my site but they benefit as well because we provide a service. When you sold your Hofnlan you where the only beneficiary.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Bobby, Bobby, Bobby...This was never personal. I've never even said so much as a bad thing about you or your site, yet you still insist on the personal attacks. I had no opinion about you and your site prior to this thread. Sadly, you've left me with a very poor impression.

This was never about you and your site despite you and few others trying your best to do otherwise. It was about businesses posting on the main board in general, especially when it is only to info us of updates. You are the one that made it personal.

It's not my board, but I've been here for 5 or 6 years, so I'm very attached to it. When I see things I don't like, I will speak up. It was never personal. As I said, it could have been your competitor, Old Cardboard or someone elese making the post. The response would have been exactly the same.

Add: Do search on Hofnlan and see just how much it was exposed. Talk about overhype on your part. I even offered the card on eBay with a $250 BIN two years ago and no one bought it. What does that say?

Jay

Growing old is not optional, growing up is.

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Posted By: Mike

Boy, I wish that kid Sean would give us his opinion.

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Pretty sad that Sean was slapped around for HIS spelling and punctuation and he's only eleven.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Kind of funny that the spam lasted two posts and the portion of this thread discussing the fairness of the first post has taken up two days of nastiness back and forth. I think Jay's heart is in the right place - clearly the guy just wants to protect the integrity of this forum. That being said, I truly think Bobby's site is great and has saved me a lot of money in the month I've been using it. Because it is a tool that actually helps us, albeit one that you have to pay for, I don't see a problem for it ending up in the main forum. As Leon has pointed out, many auctions advertise out here by telling us when their auctions begin or what is included. If it gets out of hand, then Leon will deal with it. If it's the occasional helpful thread which coincides with a money making venture for the poster, so be it -- and if you don't appreciate it, move on. God knows I move on through many of the threads here that don't interest me.

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Posted By: Scott T

I would be interested in trying this website out on a trial basis, but it is my understanding that I would have to be the one to cancel my membership due to automatic rebilling. (It seems like an email reminder might be a more customer friendly way to go.)

Scott

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Bobby,
Good luck on the site, I'm sure you will do well as many people need the info you provide. However, I don't believe Jay's response was out of line. Jay is Jay, he's going to call it as he see's period, right or wrong. I have never met Jay, but from his post of the last 5-6 years I doubt we agree on very much politically, but probably agree 99% on the focus of this board. We both love collecting Vintage cards......


Good luck to all at the National
I wish I was there Brian

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Posted By: Mark

Jeff, how has VCP saved you money? Were you able to negotiate a lower price in a private sale because you learned through the site what the card had sold for in the past? Or did the site merely save you time (e.g., in estimating the vaue of cards you placed bids on) that you equate to money. Or something else?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Mark, it's been helpful when bidding on certain cards in that ebay's past auctions only go back 30 days. With this tool, you get a view of prices paid over the past 7 months or so. It's prevented me from paying too much for a card, the money of which I'd most likely not get back if I sold.

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Posted By: Andrew

I have not subscribed yet, but believe it's invention is beneficial to the hobby. I had a friend run a history for a certain card, but the program missed an Ebay auction. Any reason why it would do that?

The knowledge base on this board is upper echelon, but the rock throwing is by far worse than any of the other five boards - not all cards - that I frequent. Just an observation.

“A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.” - English Proverb

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Posted By: BcD

could you please post a link to Bobby's site so I can write him and ask for a trial subscription?

Thanks in advance! :0

BcD cardknowledge@earthlink.net

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Posted By: Mark

Jeff, so these cards were too rare/scarce to easily figure out their values based on comparables?

Andrew, what are the other 5 boards? CU, SGC, ? ? ?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Marc, I don't think that the card necessarily has to be rare to make it difficult to figure out a value. After all, a value is only determined by what the card sold for over the past year or so. The problem with not having recent sales at your fingertips is that you're stuck with SMR or other guides that are usually way off. With this service, you get real-time sales of cards going back several months and includes auction house sales as well. So, if I see a card that I believe is worth, say $600, a review on this site may give me 5 sales in which the top price paid was $499. Unless I really want the card, I probably won't bid more than $500 with that info.

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Posted By: Bobby

Andrew,

There will be times when we miss auctions. First, there is the human element and mistakes are going to happen, we have devoleped a back end system for making sure the cards are properly listed through the site which was up in the middle of May. Currentley in the process of developing a better search tool for the admin's to add cards to the auction watch which will better deseminate the data on eBay. Second, we are at the mercy of eBay and they are not always functioning at 100%. Lastly, before the site went live we charted all the data manually on spreadsheets that later got uploaded into the site. After analyzing the data for over 400 sets there was information that could not be 100% definite on so we omited it from the data base. We have missed auctions rarely usually auctions that are graded cards listed in the raw sections of eBay which we do not watch. The members notify us and we verify the information and then add it to the system. We are very open and approachable if there is a problem we take care of it ASAP...we are not 100% but being 99.9% is a pretty good standard.