Why isn't one copy enough?

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

I wrote this in response to another thread, but I decided to post a new one so as not to hijack that one, or target anybody individually, which is not my intention. So I'll make a general query:

I heard from a friend that the M116 Fred Tenney card, which should be a common, is so tough supposedly because a descendant of Tenney's feverishly buys every copy of it that she can find.

I've heard about this kind of thing, but frankly I've never begun to understand it:

why would a collector want more than one copy of a given card if there's no variation involved?

Now:

1. I can understand the concept of upgrading to the best copy (of, say, a T206 green Cobb) you can find (but then why keep the lesser one?);

2. I can understand having multiples of a desirable card on hand for trade bait in tough sets (but if you're not working on the set...?);

3. I can understand working on multiple T206 sets, or different combinations within a set(like a T206 HOF set and a T206 Tigers set);

4. I can understand the concept of investing in multiple T206 Ty Cobbs if you believe they'll appreciate -- but this is not going to happen naturally with Fred Tenneys


But:

I do not understand hoarding as many copies of the same card as you can find. Even if the card is of a relative or something, wouldn't one or two be enough?

Does this strike anyone else as not fully in the spirit of congenial collecting? Could it be an attempt to intentionally create a scarcity?

Maybe I'm missing something and you all can explain it to me.............

Tim

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Posted By: warshawlaw

If the card or other item is desirable (attractive representation of the person), I have purchased multiple copies to give to other family members. I also upgrade if possible.

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Posted By: dd

Maybe to ensure a family legacy...as many members(current and future) of the family who want a copy could have a copy......I know if I had an ancestor on old cardboard I'd want as many copies as I could get to distribute to future and current family members....I'd also soak up as much of his history to pass it on as well.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Tim, I think I was your target in the other thread. Do not take this response as hostile, I am just answering your question as it applies to my case. I collect cards and memorabilia of my great-grandfather (Frank "Bullet" Miller) because I enjoy it. I enjoy the hunt, and the thrill of finding cards. I definitely do not do it to create a scarcity, as someone posted, because this would only drive up the price for me (and I do not intend to ever sell any of my cards). I have given some of the cards that I have bought to family members and have kept a large number for myself. I am not buying cards just to hoard them. It's not just about the cards for me either. I enjoy the history that goes along with this collecting. I have some nice items that my great-grandmother saved, including a scrap book with newspaper clipping from his entire career. I hope to share some of these things with the forum in the near future.

Here's a nice print from when my great-grandfather played for the Pirates (I bought one copy for myself and one for my grandfather):
http://cgi.ebay.com/Frank-Miller-1919-Pittsburgh-Pirates-11x14-Print_W0QQitemZ8741226238QQcategoryZ37616QQssPageN ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I can understand your frustration if I have a card that you want. People have cards that I have tried to buy that they do not want to sell. It's hard, but that is their right to own any card they want and I respect that. I have found most people to be understanding of my collection and usually quite helpful, even helping me find cards.

Every person has their own reason for collecting what they collect. Hopefully, this helps you understand why I collect what I do.

Now a plug for myself I am always looking to purchase these card of Frank Miller if anyone comes across any: Obak T4 and T212, Zeenuts, Home Run Kisses, Gilmartin, Western Playground, and any others I might not even know are out there yet.
Thanks,
-Brian

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

Thanks to board members for pointing out one obvious reason that I had overlooked: to give copies to other family members.

And thanks to Brian for responding calmly and not taking my comments as attacks on him. It's true I was thinking about the Zeenut thread when it occurred to me to ask this question, but I didn't mean it personally toward him or anyone in particular. And I can certainly understand wanting to collect examples of all the cards of one's ancestor, and wish him luck in the quest for 1912 Zeenuts and Obak cabinets, etc.

All that being said, I STILL don't get why anyone would want copy after copy of a single card for their own personal collection. Seems like it would be more interesting to collect the rest of the set, or the other players on the ancestor's team, or something like that.

--not to mention giving others a better chance to acquire cards they needed. (In other words, I am not, as you suggest, frustrated because you have A CARD I need-- but puzzled because you seem to have eight or twenty or however many copies of it, and yet you still want more!-- Isn't there a point of diminishing returns?)

BTW, I did finally acquire an M116 Tenney

Tim

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Posted By: Brian

No offense taken. Like I said, for me it is the thrill of the hunt, and I do enjoy each card. I put up a couple other posts to show some of the other things I have collected besides his cards.

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Posted By: identify7

Is one redhead enough? No! The world needs many! More than we have, way more.

Is one beer sufficient? How many hammers do you own? What quantity of dollars is adequate?

Come on Tim, you didn't object when I purchased a second R314-D Burnett from you. "What? another, Gil?"

I have viewed scans of a Board member's hoard of a single player - and they look fantastic together, eventhough they are the same card, they are all different. Different toning, wear, different lotsa characteristics.

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

I didn't know it was a SECOND R314D Burnett-- wouldn't have sold it to you if I did

I can imagine wanting a copy of something as a backup(storing them in separate places, etc.), but wanting infinite multiples of the same card I just don't get. Oh well--

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Posted By: Brian

identify7, this one is for you. Tim, you might want to look away

This is most of my T212 collection:

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Posted By: craig

i dont care what anybody says. that looks cool.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I know someone that has about 40 T206 Hans Lobert cards.

I know another collector (I'm sure the OJ collectors know who this is) that has at least 17 OJ cards of Corcoran (only 2 poses of this player).

Why?

I believe that in each case the families of these deceased players have placed restraining orders on these people to keep them away from their respective grave sites (fear of stealing the bodies or something like that)... stalking the dead...

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Posted By: Brad Green

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I do have a comment/basic question. Brian's cards (which all look great together, by the way) are in screwdown holders. I have been under the impression for a long time that cards in screwdown holders should first be placed in a plastic sleeve to prevent the card from sticking to the screwdown holder over time. Brian: You might want to check into this...

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Posted By: John S

I understand Tim's frustration as I have observed five or six individuals (I know at least three of them are dealers) on eBay scarf up multiples of the same card. I have many duplicates in my collection that were purhased as bargains for future sales or trading. If a relative of mine was pictured on baseball card I would probably collect multiple copies for reasons mentioned previously in this thread.

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Posted By: David Vargha

Baseball card collecting is an illness. Why should anyone be surprised that it manifests itself in different ways?

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: peter ullman

yea...that's a tough one. i personally like the idea of collecting as many of the same card as you can...it looks cool and is wonderful for analyzing differences in the printing process. it's a preference and we can all choose to collect what we want. i do understand the frustration which can be caused by hoarding and creating scarcities as a result...it's all part of the history of collecting...hence the doyle variation/scarcity.

pete in mn

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I know someone who owns 21 of those Corcoran cards Fred and im pretty sure his only reason for having that many is to make sure you dont ever get one

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Posted By: Anonymous

Brad, thanks for the heads-up on the screw down holders. Anyone else have comments on those?

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Over the past 2 months, aaron755hr has won 5 of the 6 N28 Cap Anson cards in PSA 5 or 6 that were on EBAY [I won the other one]. I agree with Tim. Why does he need more than one?

Frank

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Posted By: peter ullman

aaron755hr was buying t206 cobbs at a rabid pace some months ago...hoarder. we all can collect what and how we want...as long as we don't lose our sense of morals...which a lot do!

pete in mn

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

when I had my 113 Cobbs....44 were Red Portraits-
17 Green....I used to line them up with Tinker &
M.Brown Ports and ....I think I would talk to them !

Ill is right...but I think those green bunch are bad
noona bone...good going !

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Posted By: jay behrens

Those of you familiar with CCGs will understand what I am about talk about.

When I had my gaming comic store, Magic:The Gathering was the big game to play and people collected the cards esides using them for playing the game. The cards came in varying evel of prduction rarity. commoncards were not considere collectible and literally thron away if they weren't needed for a set of play.

One of partners collected a card colled Atog. You could bring us 100 Atog cards and trade it for $10 worth singles. He eventually ended up with 20,000 Atogs. I did the same thing with a card called Dead Jawa when the Star Wars CCG was released. I ended up with over 5,000. It was just something fun and stupid to do. Kidsfrom aroundthe vcountry used to show up at MTG pro tour tournements with all the Atogs they could find because they knew we would be there trading for them.

I still have a few hundered of the Dead Jawa cards in a binder along with multiples of other cards with interesting artwork that I liked. I loved CCGs with great art and a sense of humor. My all-time fovorite card is Hal, a Tosis Dragon. I also was lucky enough to get a few of the top artists of the genre to do sketches on gaming mat for me. Maybe it'll be worth something some day

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: quan

reading ur post just again confirms to me you are one wild, wacky collector as well as a crazy poster! always entertaining...

i collect on a budget so i try to get the best example I could and be happy with that.

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Posted By: jay behrens

arron755 may be on of those bored rich guys that likes to use is money to play keep away. If the guy is sloppy with his bidding like most people, team up on him. Get on person to put in a really high bid gaurenteed to top him, then retract the bid after you learn his max. Then get your buddy to go drop in a bid just below his max and make him pay top dollar.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Jay...that's not nice. Let's do it!!

Frank

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Posted By: jay behrens

Damn, that doesn't my reputation any, lol.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: J Levine

Tim,
My particular card obsession has nothing to do with the Phillies but it took me nearly 4 months of buying packs and trading with friends to complete my 1981 Topps set...the last card was a Mickey Hatcher (one of my all time favorite players and a Dodger). Had the card for about 2 weeks when new puppy decided the cards might taste good. The only card destroyed by said puppy was the Hatcher card that was on the top of the box...

Took me another month to get a replacement...

Since then, I buy 1981 Topps Hatchers whenever and wherever I find them...I probably have about 1000...

Joshua

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

"Since then, I buy 1981 Topps Hatchers whenever and wherever I find them...I probably have about 1000..."

LOL!!

You go, boy-- I doubt a thousand Hatchers more or less make a dent in the population--

Tim

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Posted By: Ed Ford

In case you missed my last post under RAMLY, would you consider selling any one of your multiple copies of Tom Reilly to a collector who really needs one (and only one) for his Cardinal vintage collection. thanks

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Posted By: Al Crisafulli

When I was a kid, there were about 8 of us that collected baseball cards. The older the card, the more value it had in our minds. The oldest card any of us had was a 1960 Topps Tex Clevenger. It was like solid gold. Whoever had the Clevenger could essentially trade it for whatever he wanted.

That Clevenger made its way around the neighborhood, through my friends at school, and back through the neighborhood probably ten times when I was a kid.

As an adult, I don't go looking for them, but whenever I find a 1960 Clevenger, I buy it. I have a stack of them. Once in a while, I put one in an envelope and mail it to one of the guys I grew up with. No note, no return address, just the card. It always results in a phone call or an email. It's funny, and a good way to reconnect with childhood friends.

-Al

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Ed i did miss it till i just read this post and then i went back to it.I'll keep an eye out for one for you and people know i collect them so if one should come up and i get contacted i'll definitely let you know about it. Im dead broke and wont have any money to spend for awhile so you dont have to worry about me bidding against you if one does come up.

You should also put a request in the B/S/T thread for one plus the Bresnahan.Im sure one will show up,they arent extremely rare.

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Posted By: Bob

Maybe aaron755hr's name is Aaron Anson?
Seriously, I believe I contributed 3 of those Miller cards in the above picture. I remember I used to grumble every time I lost out on one when I was trying to complete my set but managed to pick up a couple finally when they were mislisted on ebay. It's funny, that's probably the only time I was able to find cards in the wrong categories on ebay. I know some guys here have some magical search word which leads them to find E94s or E97s in baseball memorabilia sections or Buck Weaver cards in minor league rookie card categories but I have never had that kind of luck. A while back a collector sold me an E94 he bought in the toys category on ebay. You just never know, do you?
P.S. Besides Miller, look out for a descendant of Coombs bidding against you on ebay...

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Posted By: Bob

Tim- Congrats on Tenney, way to go guy!
Bob

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Posted By: Rich Klein

But supposedly, there was a shortage of Fred Wenz cards (easy 1971 Topps card) in the Philadelphia area as some collector who had a problem of some sort with him went and tried to buy up every card of his.

In my pre-Beckett days, I tried to buy as many cards (reasonably priced) as Joe Cunningham as possible. Joe is the only major leaguer from my home town, and if I ever opened up a store there, I wanted to have a good stock. The only good thing that came out of that venture was Ernie Montella, with a type card of each card Cunningham was on, created a very nice display for me.

Rich