neat civil war/baseball sword

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Posted By: jamie

found this while combing completed auctions on the bay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6589625986&indexURL=5#ebayphotohosting>

it's an 1861 civil war sword that apparently was gifted by a baseball club. it sold pretty well but i wonder if it would have done better had the baseball aspect been talked up a bit more. it must be one of the earliest baseball presentation pieces

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Posted By: jay behrens

The price seems to be abit low if it is a legit Civil War sword. Not sure if promoting the basbeall aspect more would help the value since the price of CW items, especially swords, are already pretty steep. Cleaning it up and getting it authenticated by a reputable CW dealer would have done more for the value.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Mike Campbell

If it is legit, I would easily have paid more than it went for. Without question. Lucky buyer.

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Posted By: barrysloate

He put it under a military category instead of a baseball one. He did not realize that its value was its connection to baseball, not the Civil War. Had baseball people seen it, it would have sold for much more. A lot of people don't really know what they are doing when they sell on ebay.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...the Civil War collector:

"Well, it must not have been in the ground very long considering its appearance. I don't recognize the sword maker, but it looks real otherwise. The reference to baseball is very unusual and perhaps suspect. It's hard to understand why this sword was presented in October of 1861 when the Union Army has so little to celebrate. They had just lost several major engagements including the Battle of Manassas. I would research Robert Ellis and the Clinton Guard to authenticate this sword. In all the sources, it would be nice find any reference to the Eagle Baseball Club. This could present a major challenge to any researcher! I would NEVER have paid so much for a sword in this condition. It's easier to fake something if the item is in terrible condition. I have my doubts about this sword that are difficult to overcome. If its real, it should be in Cooperstown! That's a BIG "if" in this case."

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Posted By: mike mullins

Did anyone else happen to read the "Questions to the Seller" at the bottom of the page? Here is one comment submitted by an interested party:

"
Dear Seller, Just wanted to add some information about this amazing item. The owner of the sword is confirmed by the Civil War Research & Genealogy Database, as follows: Robert H. Ellis Residence was not listed; 35 years old. Enlisted on 8/1/1861 at New York City, NY as a Quartermaster. On 10/16/1861 he was commissioned into Field & Staff NY 61st Infantry He was discharged on 9/26/1862 Sources used by Historical Data Systems, Inc.: - New York: Report of the Adjutant-General (c) Historical Data Systems, Inc. @ www.civilwardata.com However, the regiment should actually be the 61st New York Infantry, which was indeed known as the Clinton Guards. The regiment saw a great deal of action during the war. It would be neat to find out how the sword got to Kentucky or Tennessee. Was it captured? Did Ellis move there after the war? Anyway, best of luck with all of your auctions. Cheers, Kevin Callahan Denton, TX
"

I don't know if that lends anything to the authenticity of this item or not.

ANYTIME I SEE A LISTING IN ALL CAPS HOWEVER, I HAVE RESERVATIONS ABOUT THE ITEM BEING SOLD.

mm

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Posted By: mike mullins

Although the seller has a high 100% feedback rating, I also wondered why there were no pictures of the whole sword or the whole scabbard.

I admit to knowing nothing about swords, but (even lacking pictures of the whole item) the sword itself seems to be in much better shape than the scabbard, particularly the blade itself. Could a non-original sword have been matched with a legitimate scabbard?

Maybe I'm nitpicking. Reservations aside, a really neat item. Thanks for sharing!

mm

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Posted By: ramram

I collect both civil war and baseball (but not swords) and most all seems to be legit. Wear to the blade would be less because of its composition and because it likely was inside of the scabbard. Many types of similar presentation swords are out there although I've only seen three presented by base ball clubs, with this being the earliest. I doubt it would have been found in Tennessee or Kentucky, however, since the 61st NY never fought there. The bottom line though, in my opinion, is that it would take an awful lot of work to fake the sword, the presentation engraving and especially the condition all for $2800.

Rob M.

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Posted By: joe brennan

There are thousands of so called Civil War swords on the market today that are made in China. Artificial aged and inscriptions added for them to look authentic. There is no way that anyone can tell these swords apart from authentic unless in person and highly trained to spot the forgeries. It takes nothing to add an inscription of a real soldier from the civil war. One bidder found information on this soldier. What stops the forger doing the same thing? I'm not authenticating this or dismissing it but unlike cards with clear photos this is highly risky at near $3000.00. These items are sold all the time for less that $100.

A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I agree with Joe that the best way to fake something is to include some real history that can be researched and documented. This one is a tough call, especially since the inscription is blurry and can't be read. I didn't know these were so easily faked, and I would therefore be inclined to stay away from all of them (unless SGC wants to start slabbing them!)

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Posted By: joe brennan

Many of the fakes include a well known and traceable sword maker of the time period. Too much information is sometimes a sure sign that they are fakes. Most makers added very little to the sword. They were being made as fast as possible to supply an army. Two sure signs of a fake sword from the Civil War.
1. A dated sword near the hilt on the blade. No sword manufacturer dated the swords. I.E. 1861 or 1862
2. If the sword has C.S.A. on the blade. Again, was never done.

A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

What does "C.S.A." stand for?

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Posted By: David McDonald

Confederate Sports Authenticators

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Posted By: jay behrens

Confederate States of America.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Brian Fleischer

The new season of the Antiques Roadshow started last night...

A guy brought brought in a Confederate sword that he bought for about $100 on "online auction site". Long story short, the appraiser told him that there are a bunch of these swords that are being made in India, artificially aged, and then sold for about $79.99.

There was a date stamping of some sort on the sword that the expert said was a surefire way to tell it was a forgery because the swords used by the Confederate states weren't stamped in that manner.

I have no idea about the authenticity of sword sold on eBay, just throught I'd throw my two cents in.

Brian