Ty Cobb card showing split grip

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Posted By: Joann

http://cgi.ebay.com/Donruss-Elite-Gold-TY-Cobb-Diamond-cut-LIMITED-18-24_W0QQitemZ8745346515QQcategoryZ86837QQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem



Link above (and sorry - it is, literally, a shiny card). But I have no comment on the auction at all. I noticed it because the split grip is so pronounced in that picture. In Bat Off it is very subtle and in Bat On it's not really there at all. His famed 'split grip' looks very different in all three cards.

I'm wondering if anyone has ever heard or read what that split grip did for him or how it helped hitting. Was it something that evolved over his career? Was it full time or situational? These would possibly explaining difference in pictures. In the picture on this card, it almost looks like he's going to bunt - is his bunting where the famed split-grip came from? Did he truly do that, or did it become an affectation? Did anyone else ever try to copy it (success breeds imitation) and if so, how did it work, and if not, why not?

Obviously the answers to these questions may be out of reach, but has anyone ever run into anything that covers these kinds of questions?

Joann


(Edited to add name to replace 'anonymous')
(And then, well, edited again to move the link, because my first edit messed it up. I'll get it yet!)

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Posted By: Max Weder

Joann

I don't know the answer off the top of my head but a couple of sources you can check:

--Cobb's instructional Busting Em, reprinted by McFarland has I recall a number of comments on his batting style
--or posting the question to the Ty Cobb Yahoo group--many Cobb experts there http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Ty_Cobb/

Max

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Posted By: David Smith

Hello,

As far as I can remember reading about the split grip, Cobb started using it early in his career so as to confuse the defense. He could either move the top hand down for conventional hitting or up for bunting.

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Posted By: Joann

Thanks guys. Max, I'll check out that forum and post the question there.

And David, that answer makes a lot of sense to me. But... if you look at T206 Bat On, with the closed grip, in that case the upper hand is right about where it is in the shiny card, and the bottom hand moved up the bat. This suggests that the top hand further up the bat may have been a normal position. Bat Off is less conclusive, but also looks like the top hand is planted further up the bat.

So although your answer absolutely makes easy sense, would there be any advatage or reason for making the top hand in the split grip the nonmoving hand? Takes the bunt away?

Probably pointless speculation, but it is curious. I will post any response I get in the other forum if anyone is interested.

Joann

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Posted By: Scott Gross

I remember somewhere, sometime, reading Cobb's own reasoning for the split grip. To terribly paraphrase, and not to babble on too much, I beleive this is the jist of the split grib theory:

If it were a pitch he felt he could punch thru the infield for a safe single, he would raise up the lower hand, so both hands were higher on the bat. He would then be better abled to control his swing; like a swing bunt, or slap hit.

If it were a pitch he felt he could hit with more power, he would lower the top hand so both hands were near bottom of the bat. This, of course, gave him a more conventional swing.

If you beleive this theory, which I do, it just shows how great a hitter he was (or help explain how he hit for such great numbers).

For this reason, whenever a see an at bat Cobb card, I automatically check out his grip.

What a GREAT sport and hobby !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted By: Scott Gross

Well, there it is: It took me 30 minutes to assemble my ramblings, and took David one sentence to answer.



<<<<<<<<<<<<< Happy Old Year's Day >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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Posted By: t206King

i have been playing ball for 15 years. and trying the swing is vary unique. i bat like joe jackson, and the power u get is crazy!!!! the cobb "split grip is an excellent way to get hits. hands together takes longer to swing. split grip, u can get the bat around soooo much faster. i can see y cobb used it!! plus he was a left handed batter, so he had such advantages on the pitchers

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

..........

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

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Posted By: warshawlaw

If it was good enough for Cobb and Heilmann, it is ok by me.

I taught an open stance, split grip to my daughter and the first thing the coaches try each season is to push her hands together at the bat bottom and bring her front foot forward. Their conventionally-trained kids can't hit the side of a barn for months at a time; Emma had great bat control and opposite field power at 6.

The grip generates great bat control because you are using the back hand as a fulcrum and pivoting the lever with the lead hand. The bat barrel moves a lot with very small shifts of the bottom hand. It lets you throw the bat head into the ball at the last minute if it breaks and gives you more time to decide what to do with a non-breaking ball. It also lets you more readily spray the ball to whatever field you choose. For kids, especially, if they start out hitting that way, they learn to make contact much easier. They can gradually narrow their grips as they improve to kick up the power a bit.

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Posted By: Joann

Well shoot. Now I feel like I have to go try it. As soon as the snow melts. And good for you, warsh, for teaching your daughter that way. I'm amazed at how good these girls are so young, and the age at which they are already playing fastpitch.

Joann

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Posted By: Jeff

First let me say Happy New Year to everyone.
That card in the other link is the shiniest card I have ever seen and I think it has made me blind.
Here are a couple of non shiny cards.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

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Posted By: t206King

here is some footage from joe jacksons day. note how they bat. vary effective!!!
http://www.blackbetsy.com/joepics7.htm

found this link kinda cool

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Posted By: Tim James

Cobb was known for this grip on the bat.After reading the various posts on this subject,I would have to reach the conclusion that he would draw his hands together for the long ball (117) lifetime HR and as we know 4,191 hits,he would "punch" the ball through the infield with the split hand grip.