Opinions please on a Bill Terry item

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Posted By: Josh

I acquired this postcard earlier this year and after researching, believe that the player standing on the far right is Bill Terry, who would have been 15 or 16 years old in the picture, which dates to either 1913 or 1914.

What can I do with this piece to have it basically verified/authenticated as being an early photo of Bill Terry?

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Posted By: Anson

Not sure it's Terry. I'm trying to figure out if AHS is the high school team uniform.



edited for bad info

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Posted By: davidcycleback

If you send me a big picture of Terry's face and the whole postcard, I can give you an opinion. The postcard is from the correct era, Terry was from Atlanta and he was tallish.

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Posted By: Josh

Thank you for your help in advance. -Josh

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I'm not convinced-- which doesn't mean I'm convinced it's not. It's always problematic comparing photos from different times in people's lives (trying to authenticate a photo of a 17 year old by comparing to a photo of him at 79), but in Terry's MLB days he had chipmunk cheaks/round face. In my opinion, you have to find a photo or two of when Terry was young (even 11) and see if he had the chipmunk cheaks his whole life. Obviously, many people gain facial roundness as they age (and eat). Terry and the guy in the photo do share some similar features.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

A brief note on facial recognition and authentication.

With repetition viewing a face, humans recognize people on a subconscious level. If you bump into your sister on the street, you don't do measure the length of the nose versus the width between the eyebrows-- you just know it's her.

By collecting cards and photos and looking at pictures old ball players, you gain a similar facial recognition. If I posted a picture of Lou Gehrig, everyone here would say, "That's Lou Gehrig." And if I asked why you came to the conclusion, people would say, "Because it's Lou Gehrig." There would be no nose angle or folicle analysis.

If you are unfamiliar with the subject, you are at a disadvantage-- you don't have the subconscious recognition.

Different people share similar facial qualities (width of nose, bushiness of eyebrows). Facial analyis is essential, but shared facial features is not proof in and of itself of identity-- especially when it just doesn't look like the person.

People can look different as they get older. If you are unfamiliar with the subject, it can be difficult to authenticate by comparing a photo of a 21 year old and a 55 year old.

Other factors are used to help authenticate the identity-- and can be essential proof when you aren't familiar with the subject. This can include the date of the photo, place of the photo, that a player played for that team, provenance (came from family estate). If that 15 year old kid in the team photo looks different in ways from the older Joe DiMaggio you see pictures of on card, this can be overcome with the knowledge that the photo came from his estate and it is known he played on that high school team. If it's a 1967 Green Bay Packers team photo, the guy who looks most like Bart Starr is probably Bart Starr.

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Posted By: Josh

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.

How would someone find a known picture of Bill Terry as a boy? Seems like a next to impossible search.

Obviously, this is going to be difficult to confirm 100%.

Here's my anaylsis, I believe the picture is 1913, which would put him at 15 years old...

1) Terry had to have been the best player on the team by far, even when he was younger than the seniors, and was likely annointed as the team captain or something along this line, which is why he is wearing that garment over his uniform. The garment, I don't know the proper term for that piece of clothing, was unlikely to have been worn by accident (or because he was cold because it was probably a spring day in Atlanta) for a picture when the rest of the team is wearing their uniforms, so it's likely to signify his role. Having a picture taken was a relatively big deal in 1913.

2) Atlanta in 1913 probably had only 2 high schools to serve the whole city, one for white students, one for blacks. Most cities did not have a need to expand their schools until the huge immigration boom of the 20's & 30's, and the school buildings weren't built until after the depression, so it is likely that most major cities had only a couple of schools serving the entire city in 1913. Kids that lived too far from schools were either home schooled, schooled at a local church or did not attend school. It is also highly likely that Bill Terry played organized baseball during his high school days, as that was where he learned the basics and practiced.

3) Terry began playing minor league baseball in 1914 at age 16, which took him to Memphis, where he lived until 1922 when the Giants signed him.

4) The facial features are very similar to a number of other photographs of him taken during the course of his career. Obviously, he filled out from age 15, but you can tell he hit his growth spurt early, which probably helped him to excel and enter the minors at such a young age.

Anyways, I think I'm barking up a tree, as it's going to be impossible to fully confirm this except by one of his kids, if they are still alive, and it's probably not worth the effort. Thanks again for your help.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

If this is the high school Bill Terry attended, I would consider that very significant evidence. Without looking at an image, one would guess the chances would be good that a c.1913 baseball team photo from Terry's alma matter would include Terry in the picture.