Please make me feel better

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Posted By: Paul

Please tell me that this seller didn't actually end his auction early to sell this card to someone else for $431. (Why would anyone end an auction early to sell for the current high bid? It makes no sense.) Please tell me the seller actually sold this card for $10,000, and I wouldn't have won it anyhow. And please tell me that this is actually one of the more common Players League cards, and that its omission from the Standard Catalog was just a mistake and not an indication of rarity. In fact, please tell me this was a worthless forgery.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5190789132&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEDW%3AIT&rd=1

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Posted By: David Vargha

It was likely sold to the high bidder for considerably more than the existing bid in order to save eBay fees.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: anonymoushunterdude

...so I would not doubt authenticity.
I'd also be surprised if this is an un-catalogued card.

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Posted By: ted

I don't know how others feel about this, but that is a direct violation of ebay rules and doesn't sit well with me.....just my 2 cents

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Posted By: leon

Quite honestly I couldn't give a rat's ass about ebay rules as they suck so bad it's hilarious at cleaning up their own playpen. I don't like the ending of auctions early though....especially when I didn't get to shut it down .....just being honest....later

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Posted By: PASJD

It is the seller's item. As far as I am concerned he or she can do what they want with it. Both parties run a risk, and if they are willing to take it, so be it.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

As a buyer...

I know which sellers will end an auction early for me and which ones won't...

and I can understand BOTH sides of the argument.

But, I do try to support the ones who DO end things early for me by buying an extra item or two from them that I might not normally have purchased. Or pay a little extra than what we agree upon as a price.

Just a nice gesture in return for theirs.

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Posted By: David Vargha

It's also a crapshoot for both parties. I have made offers to end auctions early. I have had offers accepted as well as rejected. In one case, I know I got a card for several hundred dollars below what the prevailing market price was. In another, I overpaid slightly to acquire two card that I needed that showed up again for sale on eBay within 30 days and closed for about 2/3 of what I paid for them. I also remember an instance where the seller refused to end an auction early and I won the card in his auction for less than 60% of what I was prepared to offer and for much less than the card had been selling for in the past year.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: PASJD

I really don't see the issue. If a seller gets an offer that is higher than he thinks the item will go for if the auction goes the distance, then what is wrong with ending the auction and selling at that price? Whose item is it anyway? Now it may be bad business in the long run because it may piss people off or discourage people from bidding in the seller's other auctions, but that is the seller's problem/choice. I don't think if someone posts an item on ebay they assume a duty to the world to let the auction run to the end, which is why, if I see an item I am really interested in, I will make a polite inquiry if the seller would consider ending early. Yeah I know the ebay rule, but I phrase the question in such a way that I don't violate the rule.

I don't think this happens all that often anyhow. Most sellers will politely decline, and I can think of very few times when I have received such an inquiry as a seller.

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Posted By: Texas Ted

I had some items recently that I really wanted, and since I always snipe bid, I took the precaution to email the seller to let them know of my intention of bidding. I told them I was just giving them a heads up in case they got emails asking them to sell early. The response I got back was that they had indeed gotten emails and were considering it. I don't do that often, but in this case it worked out best for both of us.

You don't have to give away your intended bid amount, but just remove the risk of an early close out for those really great items.

Texas Ted
Starting my third attempt at a second childhood.

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Posted By: Mark

It also sucks for other buyers to be thinking about a card for several days just to have the auction ended early and have no shot at winning the card.

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Posted By: Brian

I just tried to end an auction early, but the seller doesn't end auctions early. I don't feel guilty for trying though!!! However I do get frustrated when I'm watching an item and suddenly it's "gone". Karma??

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

I am only an occasional seller, but the only time I would pull a card off EBay would be if there were no bids. If someone else has bid, it isn't fair to that person to pull the card and sell it to someone else.

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

It is obvious that Trevor made the guy an offer he could not refuse. Not the first or last time this will happen.

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Posted By: Jay Miller

The ultimate stupidity of ebay is ending auctions early. People end up leaving significant money on the table most of the time by doing this. The downside of continuing to run the auction is minimal as the person wanting to buy the card will undoubtedly still bid on it. In this case the seller probably left money on the table and, as someone who would have bid on the card, I have emailed him to let him know that and give him a feeling for what others may have bid. Hopefully he will reconsider his actions.

BTW, does anyone know who this seller is?

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Posted By: Judge Dred

I was going to throw in another bid on the item at the end of the auction - I hope he got a lot for that card. You can't blame someone for trying to get that card off of ebay before the auction ended.

Jay, just out of curiosity, what valuation would you place on the card? Trevor, do you want to reveal how much teeth pulling had to be done to procure that card?

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Posted By: Julie

When I was drooling over the Oshkosh cabinet, Ben very kindly wrote the seller to please not end the auction early, because a few people really wanted to snipe it. It never would even have OCCURRED to me that I had to ASK a seller not to end an auction early that had NO BIDS AND NO RESERVE..

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Posted By: David Vargha

And sometimes we are the chihuahua.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Chuck R

I'm with Texas Ted and some others who have responded. When I see an item I want, I send the seller an email letting them know that I'm coming in heavy at the end. It has prevented the auction from ending early on several occasions. I realize sellers can do what they want, but ending auctions early leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I've never done it as a seller and never asked as a buyer. I really don't understand the psychology of it on the part of the seller...is there any reason a prospective buyer would ask to have the auction end early other than his fear that he might be outbid?

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Posted By: David Vargha

Chuck, there isn't. But sometimes the buyer is willing to pay too much in his exuberance to secure the card.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Jay Miller

I'll ask again--Does anyone know who the seller is. TBob, you bought from him before. Do you remember who he is?

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Wow! Guess that did not work out too well for Trevor. Did not get the card and ebay suspended him.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=86839&item=5196394813&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

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Posted By: ramram

why would ebay even have an input choice for the seller to end the auction "early to sell to the high bidder at the current price" as is noted at the top of the old auction? i don't see how they could then say that they are suspending the bidder because he paid a little more than the current price. maybe it was just because Trevor initiated the contact about closing the auction early but with all the criminal activity that ebay turns a blind eye to, it's amazing that they would suspend him. mindboggling!

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Posted By: tbob

is that eBay has very cleverly initiated a Big Brother technique to spy on buyers wanting to have sellers end auctions early and sell to them directly for a fixed price, thereby avoiding paying eBay final value fees, among other things. You used to be able to contact the seller directly through his email if you had a bid down on an item, now you must go through the eBay in house mail system which is closely watched. They won't stop the frigging cheats, scumbags and liars on eBay but they will make damn sure you don't try to do anything which will cost them a penny in fees. What a joke.
Apparently Trevor sent an email to the seller asking him to sell the card to him for a fixed amount and eBay intercepted it and bounced him from eBay. If you'll notice they now list a stern warning about doing this on the webpage where you can contact the seller, so a guy can't say he wasn't warned. Apparently someone also tipped the seller that he was selling the card for way too little.
As far as emailing a seller to please NOT end an auction early because you want to enter a snipe bid at the end, I did that recently on a card and I'll be darned if the seller weren't Leon, our lovable moderator, I didn't know he was using a particular eBay handle. Of course Leon told me he wouldn't end it early and laughed when I found out he was the seller. I have done this several times lately, asking the seller on a card I wanted particularly bad NOT to end an auction early or to at least let me make a counter-offer if someone made an offer the seller was mulling over and trying to decide whether or not to end an auction early.

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Posted By: Paul

Have you seen what this card is now selling for? I shudder to think what it would sell for without the two rips on the front.

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Posted By: jay behrens

All the more reason to put a few cards on nationalsportscards.com and try and give us card junkies an alternative to eBay. I've been very pleased with the transactions I've had there so far, both buying and selling.

Jay

I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: BcD

After all,he is the curator of the museum right???





Bottom of the Ninth
(Login BOTN)
Reversal of FortuneMay 19 2005, 12:40 AM

Wow! Guess that did not work out too well for Trevor. Did not get the card and ebay suspended him.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=86839&item=5196394813&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

There is a VERY good reason for sellers to end auctions early when they know that someone wants to pay a high price...

and that is because they run the risk of NOT having any OTHER high bidders in the auction...

in which case the buyer's high bid would NOT be pushed up to the MAX.

If I offer to buy a card for $500...

some sellers tell me to just bid on it...

but if NOBODY else bids over $200, then that seller lost $300.

------------------------

Not recommending that people violate EBay rules...

just explaining why EBay is so worried about people doing this.

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Posted By: Chuck R

Hal: I agree that your $500 vs $200 scenario might happen, but I would return again to this question: Why would you make this $500 offer as opposed to just putting in a bid of $500? Is it because you're worried that the seller won't get a decent price? Or is it because you're afraid a bid of $500 won't get you the card? If I'm a seller, I'd have to bet on the latter. From what I've seen in my end of the hobby, it's usually the unknowledgeable sellers who fall prey to these schemes. They don't know what a "high price" is. The seller of this Ewing card obviously thought $470 was a high offer for it the first time around. My gut feeling is that these early auction endings favor the buyer a lot more than the seller.

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Posted By: Chuck R

And I would add that if a seller is knowledgeable enough to know what a good price is and is willing to entertain straight purchase offers, he should do everyone a favor and put a Buy it Now on the auction. I understand that this entails paying eBay fees (as opposed to bypassing them on a side offer). But in spite of how everyone feels about eBay, do we really want to go back to the pre-eBay days when we were mainly at the mercy of the big name dealers? Now everyone can be a dealer (without the brick and mortar overhead) and I think there is a price to pay for that.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Yes, I would offer $500 to GUARANTEE that I get the card instead of losing it at the end.

Here is the DOWNSIDE of offering to buy a card from a seller:

Once the seller KNOWS that you are willing to buy his card for $500... he can assume that you will also BID that same amount...

so he can tell his friend to place a SHILL bid for $490 and FORCE you to pay your max bid anyway.

Such is the risk.

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Posted By: Trevor Hocking

You know what I love about this board only one personal e-mail regarding this situation. Man who says men don't gossip. So from the horses mouth. Yes I did ask the seller to end the auction early. My reason for that is simple, I better try to do it before some else beats me to it. N172's are very competitive and if you don't make very high offers for cards you want someone else will. No I did not offer him chump change. I made a very high offer for the card, which I thought would be a fair price for the card given it's condition. But like most times when you ask a seller to end an auction early he is flooded with other offers. Most of the times those offers are well below what I had offered the seller, but this time it was quit a bit higher. So I advised him to sell the card to the highest offer (which happened to be absurdly high and probably not a real offer) or place it back on ebay with a nice reserve to protect his offer. No I did not get kicked off ebay because of this. It was to do with me being very busy and forgetting to pay for a few auctions which is all being taken care of. (man I hate when people don't take paypal) So thanks for all your love and care. I guess friends are getting tougher to find in this HOBBY.

Just to bring everyone up to speed on me personal so there are no more rumors regarding my motives.

Trevor Hocking:

I'm 30 years old.

I have lovely wife Lindsey
A five year old son named Hunter (who is the joy of my life) The next generation of vintage card collector. He likes cards but they have to be Lego Knight cards.

I've been married twice, My first wife died of Adrenal Cortical Carcinoma (Cancer of the adrenal gland) at 23 years old. So I did learn to take life one day at a time and money is meaningless without life.

I own a video production company. I was blessed with a great business and work very hard for it.

Yes I still collect.

I am a third generation set collector whose family never threw anything away. I still have my grandfathers Goudeys, Playballs, and George C. Millers with the original wrappers and boxes that he opened. Along with quit a few other sets.

I personally have over 500 N172's (my favorite set)
Yes I sold my original group but have rebuilt seance then. How could I resist with all of these cards coming out of the wood works.

I do help out quit a few people with there collections. I do this free of charge and would do it for anyone. I love this hobby. So if you have any questions please feel free to e-mail me.

If I ever make a profit or get a kickback from someone for selling there cards I just go and buy more cards for my collection. By the way I just got done selling a good friends collection for $480,000 and didn't make a cent. Happy to do it and would do it for any friend.

I'm not a dealer. I set up at one show, (Hollywood Park) just for fun!!!!!!!

I hope you all have a great time with this hobby. Stop talking about everyone else and start having some fun for yourself.

See you in the trenches because according to this board it's war out there.
Trevor Hocking (n172junky, but not for long)
trevor@synergystudios.tv

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Posted By: tbob

Hi Trevor. Not sure which post you were referring to but I know in my post I was simply explaining how the yahoos at ebay can detect offers to sell cards off-line which are posted on ebay. I certainly didn't intend any potshot at you, your name was only mentioned by me once and in passing, to try and explain how ebay might have receive the info about the offer and bounced you. Glad to hear that wasn't the case and that you are active again. As far as your making an offer to buy a card from a seller. there's a little too much hypocrisy around here if you ask me. Far more collectors have done this than are fessing up. I will admit I have done it a few times and I promise you if I see a D311 come up, I'll do it again. Hopefully it would be before any bids are entered but since ebay allows bidders to bid and then retract and sellers to sell and then pull their cards, I don't have a problem with it. I agree fully with Hal on this. I, myself, don't end my auctions early but if I see someone else selling something and it is something unique that I can't find elsewhere, I'll give it a shot.
tbob

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Posted By: Brian

Trevor, it was really good to hear your side of the story. I personally have made offers to end a sale early, but in my sales I would never end an auction early. I don't make it a regular practice either and it is always a legitimate (no low ball) offer.
Brian

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Posted By: craig

Pardon my ignorance but how difficult are Players League cards compared to the other n172 subsets such as spotted tie Browns champs etc?

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Men are as big gossips as women and women are way more scatalogical than men. We just don't see the other side doing it.

Trevor is a great guy to hang out with and deal with, so cut him some slack.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar