Dummy Hoy and Jimmy Ryan Unknown "Cards"

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Posted By: Rhys

I recently was able to pick up two obscure items on ebay which were of previously unknown significance to 19th century collectors. I have attached links and breif discriptions.

Jimmy Ryan retired from baseball after the 1904 season. The Colgans chip set has a rare player which not many examples exist named Ryan for St. Paul, but there is no first name given. I have confirmed that this is indeed Jimmy Ryan who played in the 1880's, by finding this exact photograph elsewhere with Ryans name on it. Everything I have ever read says he successfully entered the business world after his playing days, so I do not know why he is pictured with St. Paul in 1909, 5 years after he retired.



The other interesting item is a 1903 W601 team composite form LA of the first ever PCL year. Pictured at the bottom in his last year in professional baseball is Dummy Hoy. Since he only has about 4 legitimate "cards" this is a fairly interesting item. Not only that, but it is the last collectible which pictures him in a baseball uniform. Look just to the right of Hoy and you will see another familiar face. It is the first documented image of Gavvy Cravath in uniform as well.



Thought this might be of interest to you guys since both are popular players, and both are items which carry rare or previously undocumented images of them.

Finding interesting items like this is what makes this hobby fun for me, even on a Law Student budget.

Rhys

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Posted By: runscott

It might be a mistake - they might have found the "St. Paul" image, either on the Colgan chip or elsewhere, id'd as "Ryan - baseball player" and made an assumption that it was Jimmy Ryan. I've seen this type of error often. In fact, I have a baseball card of Cap Anson that has a different Chicago player's image.

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Posted By: Rhys

It could be a mistake, but either way it is a 1909 Colgans Chip of Jimmy Ryan. I doubt it is a mistake though because the 1908-11 St. Paul team has no other player named Ryan on it from my research.

Only other thought is that he was perhaps affiliated with the team somehow and they put him in the set because of his popularity

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Posted By: jay behrens

Let me fire off an email to the local SABR charter. They will most like be able to tell me if Jimmy Ryan was ever associated with or played for the St Paul Saints.

Jay

I saw weird stuff in that place last night. Weird, strange, sick, twisted, eerie, godless, evil stuff. And I want in.

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Posted By: Julie

Hoy was on the PCL Los Angeles team at the time; I don't think it looks like Hoy. Here's Rhett Yeakley's Cameo Pepsin pin of Hoy--I don't think the L.A. Ccomposite on the 601 looks like the same guy.

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Posted By: ramram

Uhhh...looks almost identical to me. Am I missing something?

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Posted By: Julie

the guy in the pin looks decisive; the guy in the picture looks wishy-washy. but other people think it looks like hoy, too.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Sure looks like the same guy to me, jsut two different pictures

Jay

I saw weird stuff in that place last night. Weird, strange, sick, twisted, eerie, godless, evil stuff. And I want in.

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Posted By: Julie

buying my first T3 (Baker), having Mark Macrae tell me it was Barry, and then having the devil of a time returning it. That's one reason I know I'll never complete the T3 set; I'd have to buy that--Barry!

But I swear, if you showed me that picture in the composite 601 without a name, I'd say I'd never seen the guy before.

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Posted By: brian p

I don't really know anything about the W601's or when they were issued, but this most likely is 1904 or 1905, not 1903, as the item indicates that LA was the PCL champion in 1904.

Brian

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Posted By: Julie

(If it's 1903, it's STILL the first year of the PCL, and Hoy was on the L.A. team.)

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Posted By: Paul

I believe it's a 1903. The tradition back then is that you were champion for the following year. So the winner of the 1903 pennant was "champion for 1904".

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Posted By: scgaynor

The scan above of the W601 is the one that I just sold on ebay. It is from 1903, I broke up a complete set that was in the original album, all from 1903. Many listed the teams as "1904 Champion's".

Scott

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Posted By: Judge Dred

Looks who's next to Hoy, it's 6x NL HR champ Gavvy Cravath. Not a bad piece.