Early Baseball CDV

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Posted By: Jack Bartenbaker

I recently acquired this CDV.. and in doing some checking found this web-site.. I am going to be putting it up for auction on e-Bay ..and I thought it may be a good idea for you collectors to have a peek at it.. It was part of an Estate auction..and was in a CDV Album with 96 other CDVs.. It was the only Baseball image in the album.. The album has CDV's that were taken by 2 photographists ..from New York.. most are people and a few Civil War soldiers.. they were taken by Charles Hart ..This CDV was by C.W. Van Alstine. Both these men are listed in The Daguerrian Registry as photographers in the 1800's in Potsdam and Watertown New York respectively..The CDV's in the album are all from the same time period (1861 - 1863) Any information that you guys can give me about this would be appreciated..Please excuse the poor quality pictures..the CDV is much clearer than it shows here

As you can see ..The fellow is dressed in what would appear to be normal street clothes..although from the early baseball images I have seen on the internet.. that was the norm.. He is holding a Bat and there is a ball on the shelf to his left.. The hat and belt are tinted.. and he has a string type tie on and a large Belt Buckle.. Please feel free to e-mail me or respond to this post ..as I would like to know anything that would be important about this CDV before I list it.. Identity of the man,value,whether he was part of a team.. etc. Thanks.. jack happyspappy on e-Bay..

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Posted By: hankron

You pretty much know everything you need to, except that he is wearing his baseball uniform. They wore such formal attire in games back then. For real early baseball photos, it's not necceary for a player to be known for the photo to sell well-- though it's definitely a financial bonus if the player is famous or you can identify the team.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

How are the hat and belt "tinted"?

Is it some photographic process ... or did someone just color them in later years with a pen?

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Posted By: warshawlaw

It may be period artwork. Tinting B&W photos has a long history in the art community. Depending on the type of photo, you use oil or gouache in a thin wash over the areas you want to tint. I have a nice Stewart Copeland (the Police) photo hand tinted by the photographer and signed by Copeland.

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Posted By: hankron

They would occasionally hand tint or color photos in the early days. Usually the colors are subtle, pastel-- like a bit of color to the cheaks of a woman.

It is worthwhile to note that at the time of the CDV, a team was usually identified by the big and colorful belt-- so it would not be a coincidence that the belt and hat would be highlighted in a photo.

'Lesson of the Day'
If 1 or 2 colors are added to a print or photo, it is tinted.
If 3 or more colors are added, it's colored.
So, this photo is tinted. If another color was added, it would be colored.

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Posted By: hankron

I should add that this guy was no backyard player. He was on an organized adult team, and I bet someone will figure out which team.

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Posted By: Jack

Thanks guys ..so from what Hankman is indicating there was an organized team or teams in the area of Potsdam/ Watertown ,New York..and this player pictured was a member??

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Posted By: hankron

New York, particularly NYC, was the hotbead of early baseball. The guy is pictured in a formal team uniform ... Most people who are going to bid on this type of item will be well versed with early baseball history.

Likely, some educated parties would not publicly post what they know about the team and player as they want to win it.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Everyone on the board is correct in that he is wearing his baseball uniform, and that the highlights of the photo are hand-colored. A few added thoughts: the dates 1861-63 seem a bit early for this; if I were guessing, a date of 1865-67 would be more realistic. It is likely that the photographic studio in which he was photographed is near where his team played. Finally, virtually all CdV's from this period are either unidentifiable, or of players who were not that well known. He was almost certainly not a famous player. What makes this image valuable, or any CdV for that matter, is the quality of the composition. In this case, this is a particularly handsome image, and is desirable as a really great early photograph of a baseball player. You can check early box scores for players who played in the Pottsdam area, but even if somehow you could identify him, while this would be valuable historically it would be someone none of us have heard of.
Nevertheless, a great image, nicely colored, and worth a strong bid. Good luck with it.

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Posted By: Anonymous

So.. I guess I have found out what I was looking for..I want to Thank you gentlemen for the help with this.. I am still thinking about my reserve.. and it will most likely be $500 -- $600 ..But that is really up to pappy.. It's his CDV.. You guys have a Great Site!! I will definetly be keeping track of the posts on here ..and will alert my Brother (a rabid collector)..about it.. If any of you are interested in bidding it will be up on the auction block probably next week ..although I may want to wait till after The National.. Hopefully everyone wont spend all their money there .. Regards..Jack happyspappy on ebay

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Posted By: barrysloate

$500-600 sounds like a realistic reserve, and it is well worth it. It probably won't be me, as I no longer actively collect, but I do appreciate a new image that no one has seen before. Mark Rucker, a noted baseball photography expert, is currently doing a book on baseball CdV's, and I bet he would be willing to include it in the book. You can contact him at tgraphic@ uswest.net or call him at 303-494-6715 and mention my name (Barry Sloate).If you can email him a clear image I think he would accept it. If that sounds appealing to you, give him a try. Good luck.

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Posted By: happyspappy on e-Bay

I have this listed now ..If anyone of you would like to see or know of someone that may want it ..The reserve is set at $500.00 it is item Item number: 5111667975

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5111667975&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT