Experts, please have a look...

[Archive]

Posted By: chris

Real or fake Goudey? I rec'd some bad info on this seller, but the card looks good from the scans.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2708533123

[Archive]

Posted By: Ben

But with real Goudeys, shouldn't the red bar at the bottom show through on the back? Also, the top edge looks trimmed to me. If it is in fact real (which would suprise me) it is almost surely trimmed in my opinion.

[Archive]

Posted By: Mike Williams

Also not an expert but a few borders look "odd"...the bottom has an uneven cut and the top and right look wavy. Not common characteristics on '33's.

[Archive]

Posted By: Hankron

I don't mean to be rude, and certainly don't mean to prevent you from asking questions about a card-- but aren't these the questions you should ask before you win an $1,000+ auction, not after?

If all the collectors of the world did was to ask the same questions they ask, but before they bid instead of several monthes after, Liberty et al would have gone out of business a long time ago. Whenever a AAA owner says, "Have year heard of this card before" and "How much do you think this is worth?", all I think is, "Why didn't you ask these questions before you bid?"

[Archive]

Posted By: chris

I won, but have not paid yet. So I guess I'm only half-stupid. I appreciate any constructive thoughts as everyone here seems to be extremely knowledgable. I still believe some good could come out of this if a bad seller can be exposed even if it is at my expense.

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

This jerk has been buying fakes from Feldman. We're finally seeing these items being released on the market as real!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31722&item=2702156990

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

I would sue this jerk AND report him to ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31722&item=2703677752

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

...but sells it multiple times (using the same image). This explains why this particular Ruth doesn't look exactly like the one he purchased.

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)

this seller's only other item currently for sale is a '38 Joe D, at least 2 copies of which have been sold by Feldman on Ebay in the last two weeks or so.
Runscott is right-- I'd strongly consider legal action against this charlatan.

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31722&item=2710114978

and the original feldman234 purchase (bought 2!)

2703972301 Jan-25-03 Jan-28-03 20:02:23 $22.05 1938 Goudey Joe Dimaggio msblleo@aol.com(128) (*)
2703972743 Jan-25-03 Jan-28-03 20:03:36 $22.50 1938 Goudey Joe Dimaggio Rookie msblleo@aol.com(128) (*)

I reported this to ebay.

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

Chris, at least you have the good sense to ask questions and not blithely send along your money. I was scammed once on an E-something Wagner, some of the people here were kind enough to alert me to the history of the seller (as Runscott has done for you), and I reneged. I'd advise you to do the same.

I mean no offense to Chris, but I have to say it: I am so tired of people buying raw allegedly high-grade rare pre-war cards offered by amateur dealers on no more than a blurry scan. It is simply too good to be true. A true ex-mt Ruth graded by a major service would pull well into five figures at auction. How is it then that the seller could possibly ask anyone to believe that his item is authentic? One rule of thumb I follow in my practice is to never assume that my opponent is stupid. I cannot understand why anyone would give any credence to a seller who would not spend $100 to make several thousand. We have all seen people burned again and again by this kind of thinking and yet folks keep doing it, out of what I can only assume is basic greed.

[Archive]

Posted By: Hankron

First, I don't wish too much heat being heaped on Chris (Yes, I realized that's a mixed metaphor) for posting here. It appears as if may have helped opposed fraud without a buyer having to lose money. Chris deserves due credit for posting here.

In my opinion, much of the responsibility for the proliferation of forgeries rests with the buyers. The reason why forgers make money is because ignorant buyers are buying their forgeries. The reason why Libertyforall is selling all those cutouts is because people are buying all those cutous. If people would wise up and quit buying, he would be no longer selling. It's as simple as that.

Realize that most forgers are not trying attempting to fool Lew Lipset or Bill Mastro or even an avid collector who owns a Standard Catalogue. They're trying to sell them to the gullible and ignorant who think they're getting a steal.

As Adam pointed out, use your common sense. If a seller says, "I cannot authenticate, all sales are final," do not bid. If a seller is offering a T206 Honus Wagner for $2,000 because he says doesn't want to fork over $10 for a grading fee-- give me a break!

When buying expensive or problemantic items, know your seller. When you buy from quality sellers, everything else usually falls into place. Mistakes happen with everyone, but a quality seller will rectify a legitimate problem. It's in their best interest to have satisfied customers.

Find someone knowledgeable who can answer your questions. Sometimes a simple, "Does this look okay to you?" or "Do you know this seller?" will save you thousands of dollars or lead to great buys.

Have significant questions answered or satisfactorily adressed before you buy an expensive or problematic item. If you can't get them satisfactorily adressed, do not bid.

Never buy an expensive item impetuously. Even if authenticity is not an issue, you are more likely to pay too much.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Chris should be applauded for putting this out to the board. I agree with Adam in renegging on this auction. I agree with Scott that this guy should be prosecuted. Hopefully this is enough of an open and shut case that Ebay will actually quit picking their noses and do something about this a-hole. He should be shot or at least maimed ...or something... I will say though that I got the 3rd degree on the Hess I bought recently from a 0 feeback seller and my best ebay buy yet was the Kalamazoo Team card that had 700 views and no takers...except me...SO, yes be leary but if you can do a little homework there are still some "steals" out there....just few and far between...best regards all

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

First of all, Chris bought a card that looked fairly real, and from a seller with good feedback. The only clue he had to go on was was the scan and the bid history - from the bid history you could see that no big players were bidding on this card, which is a significant hint. Also, as long as the card is in a "normal" category (it ain't no secret, in other words), go ahead and ask your buddies what they think before you bid. Also, I have seen so many of these fake "feldmans" on ebay, that I immediately looked at Feldman's past sales to see if this was one of his - I'm surprised that someone spending this kind of money on a '33 Ruth hasn't been keeping an eye on the "Ruth market" on ebay. If you had, this would have looked familiar to you.

[Archive]

Posted By: Anonymous

First of all, thanks for the great info and assistance. I only found this board today or would have gotten involved (and saved myself some problems) sooner. I appreciate the tracking down of info on this seller.
As a side note, I do have the seller's phone # (calling herself Cecelia). When I called yesterday to ask about guaranty and insurance, the person hung up right away. I got the # from paypal if anyone wants it, let me know.
I've been collecting on and off for years and own 2 real (almost positive) 33 Goudey Ruths. However, I have not been looking for another until recently or watching this feldman character. Although in another twist I noticed today that I had bought a t206 reprint from him not too long ago. I remember seeing them for auction, thinking how real they looked and panicking that every t206 I had ever bought was a reprint. I bought one to compare to mine and fortunately they are pretty weak. Don't worry, I won't be listing it!
As for suing the guy, I am a lawyer (in Iowa, Wisc and CO) so that part is easy. The problem is that because I have not paid for it, I don't have any damages., unless he goes after my feedback rating.
Well, I will say my first day of posting here wasn't dull.

[Archive]

Posted By: chris

that last post was mine.

[Archive]

Posted By: Lee Behrens

Chris, I have one negative feedback and it's from a seller that was selling reprints after questioning him he left me my one negative. To me it's just a battle scar. Plus you do have a chance to respond. Just my experience.

Lee

[Archive]

Posted By: fkw

The Ruth card has one characteristic of a reprint, but its not 100% certain to be a reprint. The bottom red strip on front lines up too perfectly on both ends with the background color, where they both meet the border. Almost all real cards dont have this, as the red will extend farther into the border, or some not as far into the border, but Ive never seen one match up exactly like this card (look at closeup link). The back looks good. If this card is a fake it is one of the tougher ones. I personally wouldnt bid unless I knew the seller on this auction. Another red flag is the card is not graded, for such a nice looking card (reprint/trimmed ???). my advise, on high end cards, you should know that the seller is experienced in vintage and honest, or the card has to be graded. Good luck, Frank

[Archive]

Posted By: fkw

Now that I read all the posts I see that you guys did some homework on the card and its a "Feldman special" (mostlikely). You may want to take a closer look at the card, and compare it with an original, as I would think we will be seeing more of them, maybe in rougher condition as well in the future. Frank

[Archive]

Posted By: Elliot

The Green Ruth is the hardest of the Ruth (in the Goudey set) to detect the reprints from the real ones. On the real ones the red border lining up (like Frank has talked about) is closest to lining up in most cases, but still does not line up perfectly like the reprints. Additionally, for whatever reason, there are fewer of the real ones with bleed through compared to the other Ruths. Part of this is the lighter background color, but it does not explain why the red bottom border does not have the "bleed-through". One other thing to look for is that on the real ones the hat appears to continue into the white border, even if it doesn't actually do so. On the fakes, it appears to be much more of an abrupt cut-off.

If you do an ebay search, I think you will find more of the reprints than real ones, and some have sold for significant amounts. I guess feldman has been real busy.

[Archive]

Posted By: MW

The one thing that really stood out when I was viewing the card was the upper left corner. Goudeys that possess that degree of toning almost NEVER have areas of corner wear that are lighter than the rest of the card. Unless, of course, they are reprints.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dwayne

Things like this come up so often with this set ...I stay away from the entire set with a ten foot pole.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tom Boblitt

that spot of white discoloration on the upper left corner/border as well.......that was a sign of something fishy.........

I think this is one of those new hybrid, created reprint cards. Whomever sells that CD that has the billions of vintage cards pictured on it only serves to help confuse the situation. This one doesn't really look like a Renata Galasso (used to order complete sets of Topps from her late 1970's, early 1980's) reprint. Looks more like one of those second generation Btuttle or Shiloh33 where they were printing the cards out and gluing them back to back.

Unfortunately as great a marketplace as ebay is, they take absolutely no efforts to police things such as this. The reason........just the OPPOSITE of Michael's due diligence on CLCT stock......ebay's actually MAKING money and LOTS of it. So....they neglect to take any REAL steps to protect people and live under the Caveat Emptor umbrella.........

[Archive]

Posted By: Robert

I don't want to say I said so but I complained about these cards from Feldmen a long time ago. I mentioned this in a thread a while ago that somebody was going to get hurt with those reprints. Rob

[Archive]

Posted By: Ben

I doubt your concerns were met with any criticism, in fact, I'm sure everyone agreed with you. Feldman's reprints are dangerous to the novice collector, and should not be tolerated by Ebay.

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

disclaimer: I wouldn't post anything a board member emailed me, even those I disagree with. These people are outside our community, and are losers, so I don't have a problem with it.

from Feldman: "this guy told me that this is not the replica i sold him. he told he is
selling his real one cause the replica he bought from me looks so good."

from the Msblleo@aol.com: "I appreciate your interest in the attempt of saving Ebay from all trouble. I think you need to review the scan from my auction and compare to the replica before you continue making threats and accusations. If its any of your business, I needed some money and I am selling my Babe Ruth card and replacing some of my premium cards with replicas for MY personal collection."

This all makes so much sense now!

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian C Daniels

Did you do the backround search and figure out yet were Marty Feldman got his reprints from???

The one.................

The only............

Bill " fake E-95 " Tuttle !!!!

Have A Nice day!!!

Please and only drink Rollin Rock for tastey success!!

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

...in a nursing home, slipping metal slugs past the blind old ladies.

How'd you figure it was him?

[Archive]

Posted By: MW

Dwayne,

No reason to steer clear of certain years because of dubious eBay sellers. Instead, just ask the opinions of board members before bidding. I can't think of a better method for determining whether or not you are bidding on a legitimate card -- there is a great deal of knowledge here.