"14 Banned Players" ?

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Posted By: Nick

With all of the Pete Rose talk, I heard a reporter say that there are 14 players who have been banned. I know of the eight Black sox players, Pete Rose and I think Hal Chase? Can anyone help clear this up?

Thanks,
Nick

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Posted By: Jeff Obermeyer

While I can't find an actual list anywhere, I can confirm the following players (besides the Black Sox and Rose):

Jean Dubuc - knowledge of Black Sox scandal
Joe Gideon - knowledge of Black Sox scandal
Benny Kauff - auto theft
Ray Fisher - attempted game fixing (asking for a bribe)
Phil Douglas - attempted game fixing
Jimmy O'Connell - attempted game fixing
Cozy Dolan

There are probably some others too... my source is a great book - "The Fix is In - A History of Baseball Gambling and Game Fixing Scandals" by Daniel Ginsburg.

Jeff
http://www.seattlehockey.net

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Posted By: z28jd

i dont know if there is just 14 but 4 players from the 1877 louisville team were banned for gambling,jim devlin george hall,al nichols and bill craver....and also heine zimmerman was banned in 1919

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Posted By: ockday

This was in todays NY Daily News

The Banned List

Players banned from baseball, taken from the Shoeless Joe Jackson Society's Web site.


BLACK SOX SCANDAL (ALL 1921): Bill Burns, Eddie Cicotte, Happy Felsch, Chick Gandil, Joe Jackson, Fred McMullin, Swede Risberg, Buck Weaver, Lefty Williams. Joe Gedeon: Friend of Swede Risberg, knew about the Black Sox Scandal and placed bets for Risberg.

Cozy Dolan (1924): Alleged to have been behind attempt to fix a game in 1924.

Phil Douglas (1922): Wrote a letter offering to desert the Giants, if given money, so that he would not have to help John McGraw win the pennant (he was mad at McGraw for chewing him out).

Jean Dubuc (1922): Involved with Hal Chase in fixing of games during the 1919 season.

Benny Kauff (1920's): Banned after being charged in New York with auto theft and receiving stolen property.

Lee Magee (1919): Confessed to having helped Hal Chase fix games in 1918.

Jimmy O'Connell (1924): Told Philadelphia infielder Heinie Sand before a game in 1924 that 'it will be worth $500.00 to you if you don't bear down on us too hard today.'

Gene Paulette (1919): Accepted gifts from St. Louis gambler Carl Zork.

Heinie Zimmerman (1919): Involved with Hal Chase in game fixing during the 1919 season.

Pete Rose (1989): Official ruling: Conduct detrimental to baseball. Unofficial ruling: He had a gambling problem.

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Posted By: runscott

What was the story on Hal Chase?

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Posted By: ockday

http://www.pubdim.net/baseballlibrary/ballplayers/C/Chase_Hal.stm

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Posted By: runscott

Why the "persona non grata" designation, rather than "banned for life"? Chase was as flagrant in his improprieties as anyone, especially Rose.

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Posted By: ockday

Here is a review from Amazon on the Chase book called
Hal Chase: The Defiant Life and Turbulent Times of Baseball's Biggest Crook
by Martin Donell Kohout



Hal Chase is considered by many to be one of the best first basemen ever to play the game of baseball. He was able to make the routine look spectacular, the spectacular look routine. But Chase will never have his plaque in Cooperstown because he has gone down in history as the biggest crook in baseball. Chase was repeatedly accused of throwing games, bribing players, betting against his own team, and various other crimes, yet with his relaxed nature he always managed to get off the hook for his misdeeds by working his charm. His playing career lasted from 1905 to 1919, and by the mid-1930s he was a destitute alcoholic living off friends. The last fifteen years of Chase's life saw him hospitalized repeatedly for a variety of ailments, living off a sister and brother-in-law who loathed him. This work traces the turbulent life and times of Hal Chase from his humble beginnings to his sad end.

Apparently Rose's lack of "charm" has worked against him.

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Posted By: runscott

Chase received 11 votes in the 1936 voting for the first entries into the HOF, and Joe Jackson received 2.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Benny Kauf? Arghhhhh...How can you ban the Ty Cobb of the Federal league? And I also sponsor his webpage on baseball-reference.com. Doh!!!

Jay

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Posted By: z28jd

at least 37 people including owners/managers/umpires have been suspended indefinitely at one point or another by baseball,some before the current national league formed,and some were reinstated....that list in the paper is wrong because those 4 louisville players were suspended for life by William Hulbert,then NL president,and none of them were ever reinstated...im not 100% positive but if you watch ken burns baseball,part 1 it mentions a player suspended for life writing a letter to try and get reinstated and it doesnt work,im pretty sure they were talking about Jim Devlin....i wish i had the tape here to watch it to confirm but im at the wrong house now(its my house just not the one where the tape is )

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Posted By: Bob

Didn't I read somewhere that Kauf was charged but never convicted. This was a knee jerk reaction by the worst Commissioner of all time who as a judge never believed a baseball player was inncoent until proven guilty. Benny was also a victim of the war between the Federal and existing baseball owners.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Oh, wait a minute, they weren't banned, just exiled to the Senators and A's. KKKan you believe the hypocrisy?

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Posted By: runscott

that they weren't betting on their team to lose; however, it was common practice back then for teams to drop a game or two to help another team move up in the standings.

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Posted By: ErikV.

All,

In the history of baseball there have been 35 men who have been permanently expelled from the game. (32 players, 1 umpire and 2 owners.) Eight of the 35 have been reinstated. (The list of 35 can be viewed at www.1919BlackSox.com.)

It should be noted that Hal Chase, Bill Burns, Paul Carter, Claude Hendrix, Dutch Leonard, Bill Maharg and Heinie Zimmermann were "unofficially" banned from baseball. A more accurate account was that these players were blackballed from ever playing in the Major Leagues.

Regards,

Erik V.

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Posted By: Nick

Perhaps I'm a bit partial because I reside in "Sin city" but I don't understand why baseball has chosen gambling as the predominate reason to ban someone.

God that was a long sentence!

Anyway, I feel all of lifes evils should count...

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Posted By: jay behrens

Even though pro wrestling didn't exist back then, they wanted to make sure that people felt that the results of the games were not predetermined.

Jay

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Posted By: Tom B.

Is a mortal sin same as deadly sin?

7 deadly sins.........

Don't see where betting is on any of these although it might fall comfortably under greed (if you're a good bettor).

ANGER
PRIDE
ENVY
GREED
GLUTTONY
LAZINESS
LUST

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

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