1920's Ray O Print

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Posted By: leon

Hey folks,
As an avid AMATEUR I would like a little feedback on this card. I know they were made from negatives in a kit. I still need one as a type though. Is there a way to tell if it is truly old OR made yesterday (per se)......the paper looks suspect on the back as to how old it is...I am not too familiar with these but it does look like other pics I have seen...I paid about $65.00 for it and might have got taken .....but then again how taken can you get on $65.00? The seller did say "satisfaction guaranteed" so I can probably get a refund if I want to....thanks in advance.....and best regards

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Posted By: David

There have always been theories that many of these could be or even were reprinted, as multiples could be made using the old negative and new photographic paper.... For those unfamiliar, the Ray O Prints were sold to kids as kits, where the kid could make his own little photo of Ruth, Gehrig, Lindeberg, Dempsy, etc.... As a lot of them are in strong grade, it makes one think. However, I haven't seen facts that they were reprinted and assume most on the market are legitimate. I owned one set a long time ago, so don't have any hands on experience with the cards.

Other than on overall appearance and intuitive opinion from someone familiar with old photography, the following tests are important:

* Black Light: Most but not all modern photographic paper will fluoresce brightly under black light.

* Silvering. If there is light silvering in the dark areas (noticeable by changing the angle of the image to a light source), the card is definitely vintage. The Orbit photo cards, for example, have strong silvering. As the Ray of Prints often have underdeveloped (light images) any silvering might be hard to detect. Also silvering is more likely to appear in earlier photo cards. If there is no silvering, this doesn't prove the card a fake, but if there is silvering it is genuine.

* General signs of aging on the back of the paper, even if light. This can include light toning, fraying of the edges, etc. Mint edges and corners on an old photograph are more than unlikely. There are instances where a vintage photo will have no or little toning or wear on the back (due to the way it was stored), but this is the exception not the rule.

* I would be happy to look at the card, but I know you usually take these issues to SGC.

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Posted By: David

One side note, I haven't before seen a Ray of Print with a yellow background like yours-- or at least as appears in your scan. It's usually a white with a light brown tinge.

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Posted By: scgaynor

If you question the piece, your instincts are probably correct. Somebody on ebay has been turning these out in quantity. I have returned several to consignors over the past few months (all originally purchased on ebay), as they were printed recently using an old negative.

Scott

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Posted By: leon

Thanks David- it fluoresces brightly, under blacklight, especially when held up to a "non-suspect" M116. Thanks Scott- for the reassurance that if it doesn't "look" right it probably isn't (and I am actually getting to be able to tell these things )....and finally, thanks Brian for the miniature black light a few years ago....I have emailed the seller, from ebay, and we'll see....regards all...

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Posted By: Anonymous

POP and I have never bought these as old! I have several and they just look too new for me to buy the story. I have 2 in my type set but am still not sold. You can get these for $50 each if you are patient. Just my opinion and god knows I have been wrong before. take care depressed dan.

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Posted By: leon

It will be all right. Other cards will come along and take the place of this one..time heals son..(aren't I a few days older than you?)...like a junior high girl girlfriend that leaves you and is soon forgotten........well, sort of....anyway, we'll see what the seller says...and I, of course, agree with you and Pop .... regards

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Posted By: David

Assuming it is a modern reprint, it still has some semblence of value-- distinguishing it from a 1933 Goudy Ruth reprint made on a snotnosed (it's cold season) kid's computer printer. Modern reprints made from the original negative has status in the photograph hobby, though not nearing the original photographs.