things that make you go hmmm...

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Posted By: jay behrens

check out this e92 Nadja Rebel Oakes. Many of you have seen the PSA 5 I have and mine looks much better than this card. For those that ahve not seen it, it has perfect register and corners just as nice as this card. So how does an out of register card get a 5?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1855375326

Jay

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Posted By: jay behrens

also notice that the card is not as well cantered as mine and this card also appears to have a bit of paper loss on the back. How do you get a 5 with that?

Jay

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Posted By: Ronald Haynes

in your previous message you mention about the cards
"register". What does this mean?
Thanks,
R Haynes (a group newbie... obvious I guess!)

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Posted By: jay behrens

the color is applied in several steps. I fhte card is not perfectly aligned, it will end up in the wrong place. If you look at the Oakes card, the yellow ended up in the wrong place.

Jay

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

a mathewson with his eyes resting on his cheeks. It's like an out-of-focus photo, or a double excposure, except with lithography.

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

...double exposure! Matty often resorted to that stunt with his retractable eyes to unnerve the opposing batters, but on rare occassion. The card you saw bore an image of Matty rarely seen, that some photographer snapped at exactly the right moment. Roger Craig, years later, tried duplicating this technique with some very limited success. He could distend his eyes much like Matty, but once out, was unable to retract them!!!!

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Posted By: David

In circa 1910s, it was difficult to get the colors aligned perfectly. Upon close examination, most T206s have at least slightly overlapping colors, usually noticeable at the edges. 'Poor registration' or 'off registration' means the colors were aligned noticeably bad. Good registration means they were aligned well. With most circa 1910s cards, minor registration problems won't effect the value, but if the registration is bad enough that there is a blurry or 'water lapping on the beach' effect, it will often lower the value. It all depends how the registration effects the attractiveness of the card.

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Posted By: runscott

Because they aren't concerned much with visual appeal, and rather with technical benchmarks, poor registration cards often end up with high grades. Another reason why you have to buy the card, not the holder.

Why in the world you could have a special designator for "off center" and blow off "registration" is beyond me.

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Posted By: David Vargha

is slightly out of register (and on the "cayenne" -- yellow part, which doesn't affect the visual appeal of the card very much). PSA does have an "OF" (Out of Focus) qualifier as well. But why does that mean that slabbed cards are a bad idea? I agree 100% with "Buy the card -- not the holder" for legitimate grading companies. But many on this board are just anti-slabbing and looking for a myriad of reasons to justify their decision.

Whether or not you like slabbed cards is really no big deal, but some folks seem to have a fixation with the issue.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: runscott

hope it's okay.

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Posted By: David

David V., as one who sometimes dismisses grading companies, I admit that I have the luxury of being someone who doesn't orinarilly deal with cards. Whether this is an advantage or disadvantage, is debatable (probably a bit of both).

I deal primarily with 20th century photographs, which is a widly different world. While I use typical card terms like Ex, VgEx, etc-- a photograph can have writing or other physical marks, and even trimming that does not effect the grade, depending what kind of photograph it is. Photographs were rarely factory made, and were often handcut. Certain marks and even irregular cuts help prove the authenticity/history of certain news service photographs, and, for this, can even raise the value. For example, certain markings on the front and back illustrate that a photograph was the 'original art' for newspaper or magazine picture-- which many collectors find appealling.

Ordinarilly, I give a grade for the physical photograph, and, separetly, note the quality of the image (Vg photo with a Mint image, Near Mint photo with a badly out of focus image). Also, unless it is particulary intrusive, normlal handcutting and back writing not effect the grade but is clearly and explicitly noted ('The photo has neatly handcut edges with production marks on the back, Grade Ex').

The other difference, is that many photographs are unique or otherwise ultra rare, so the collector ordinarilly does not have the luxury of turning down a deal in order to look for a better graded one on eBay next week.

The healthy thing that photograph collectors quickly learn is that, while overall grade and wrinkles and such are important and effect value, a photograph is judged primarly on the quality of the image and overal eye appeal. In the end, the difference between Ex and ExMt (presence or absence of a touch of roughness to one edge) or Near Mint and Mint is nearing unimportant.

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Posted By: David Vargha

One is free to pay as much or as little as they want for the cards they purchase. Believe me, as one who is extremely opinionated, I hardly begrudge someone sharing theirs on an Internet chat board. To me, the biggest value of a PSA, SGC or Beckett is the third party authentication of a card as being unaltered and not a forgery. While humans do make mistakes, the chances of getting what you paid for are greatly enhanced by buying a slabbed card from a legitimate company.

We can argue ad nauseum over whether cards are better raw or slabbed, if thousand of high grade raw cards exist for a particular issue, whether PSA or SGC has better standards, how much one company emphasizes on characteristic of a card versus another company or the collecting community in general and that's great. Because if we couldn't do that we'd probably have to spend time with our families (j/k).

My point is simply this -- if we all agree to "buy the card and not the holder" then discussions as to registry of an EX card or print dots or corners, etc. are really moot if we have the opportunity to see the card before purchasing it or if the seller offers a money back guarantee on cards bought without images.

I was in the office of a collector the other day whose collection easily exceeds $1 million in value. He showed me a PSA 8 Ruth Goudey he was considering buying. After a short discussion, we both agreed that the corners were not high quality for an 8 and that the slight print marks on the yellow background were unacceptable for the asking price. That is no different than the process most collectors go through when considering a raw card purchase. However, no serious collector feels compelled to buy a card just because the number grade on the front says that it is better than how the collector evaluates it. How is that any different from a collector telling a dealer that his creased card isn't really "mint" and doesn't justify the asking price?

Just my 2 cents . . .