Just wondering............."AAA"

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1851893140

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Posted By: David

The fact that Libertyforall qualifies as a 'Power Seller', should confirm everyone's suspisions about eBay.

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Posted By: John(z28jd)

i guess cutting them up was getting too tiring,i could see some guy sitting there with his toungue hanging out the side of his mouth concentrating on cutting in a straight line with his plastic scissors

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Posted By: David

When you're known as the Poor Man's PRO, that's generally not a good sign.

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Posted By: Robert

Take a closer look at the item in this auction. The "tough" AAA has designated the team as Pittsburgh-AL.

What a rarity -- the ultra obscure American league Pittsburgh franchise!

This must be so valuable that it rates a private auction. We must all strive to protect the winning bidder's identity as he might not want the world to know he owns something so valuable!

Someone call the media to alert them about this amazing find -- the Shop At Home Guys will suffice. Just imagine how loudly they would yell on-air if they could sell such a rarity!

And, to boot, AAA couldn't even cut their sticker on a straight line.

They aren't the poor man's PRO...they are the weaker cousin of RunScott's personal grading service and ice making empire.

Cheers,

Robert

*Disclaimer for Scott -- forgive this frivolity if you really have decided to enter the ice-making business. Put me down for a bag of the round ones

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Posted By: BcDaniels

at home with the flu and all.....

look at this:

"Neverpayfullprice" for trimed PRO graded cards sold by the same guys who sold Koos the E-90 Jackson card and the PRO* graded Mantle!

They are PSA-card,Psa-1,Bedrock,Kardz-r-us..beanies...et.et...et..et

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1851569543


" Never pay full price " * In fact....never pay anything !


Go for it Mr. Pink book!!!

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

...if you ever stopped to READ this seller's descriptions. In your own words, "If you stop being DECEPTIVE in your descriptions, and start representing all of your items ACCURATELY, you should have NO problems". Now, explain to me EXACTLY what this seller is doing that is perpetually stocking bees in your bonnet? Is his description accurate? Does he call it a card or a PAPER STOCK CUT-OUT? Is this a MISREPRESENTATION? I think that you have to seriously address the wording of his description before you can assess exactly which Ebay by-laws he's violating, and what fraud he is committing. I wouldn't bid on one of these. I like CARDS. CARDS that can be found in CARD catalogs, not pictures cut out of books. But some MAY actually WANT to buy pictures cut out of books. He had an original idea of how to turn 2 cents into 50 bucks in many cases, but explain to me what he is doing that is illegal as he appears to be accurately representing his items or are you simply confusing YOUR judgement on what may be unethical and projecting fraud on that basis? The fact that he is a POWER-SELLER is indicative of the fact that he receives payment for the item, ships safely in a timely manner, and his buyer is either pleased as punch that the item represents expectations or returns the item and a refund is sent out immediately. WHAT is the real problem here if someone wants to buy one of these PAPER-STOCK CUT OUTS, as he describes them? The fact that HE thought of it, is reaping HUGE profits, and you didn't? I'm really curious and don't mind playing Devil's advocate on this thread at all, since most of you are convinced I'm already in league with Mephistopheles anyway.

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

...

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Posted By: David

Koos, that you defend Libertyforall says more about you than I ever could

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Posted By: B C Daniels

What my question actually was ...

Do these guys ever actually grade a CARD*** ???
Card described as anything in the ACC with an actual designation ???



( send me my psa T-206 cards back as stated "they were sent" and that was three weeks ago now! ) so of course they were NOT mailed as stated.

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

...the exact nature of your specific problem with them? Do you have ANY reading comprehension skills whatsoever? Where in my post did I say whether or not I either approve or disapprove of Paper-stock cut-outs as a collectible? Everything and anything is collectible to someone, and my lot in life isn't to dictate to others what they should and shouldn't. RE-READ my post. Have someone translate it into pig-latin for you if simple English isn't registering. I simply asked you WHY you are always pounding the war drums over sellers who you feel are NOT representing PERFECTLY what they are selling when by MY interpretation of his description, the item is exactly that...a PAPER-STOCK cut-out. YOU TOLD ME, "that if I represent my items accurately, I'll have NO problem from you" (as if I even consider you as a parasitic bacteria, let alone a threat). WHAT IS THE MISREPRESENTATION of his items in his auctions that causes you such abject misery? Do you even know or do you just HATE for the sake of HATING itself? Do you have an answer or just more allusions to ME to make?

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Posted By: David

Koos, I'm going to pass on getting into an argument or even further coversing with with you, as it doesn't appeal to me. If you feel that Libertyforall's tactics are aboveboard and potential bidders are not going to be decieved into spending too much, that's wonderful.

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Posted By: Bruce Moreland

The only mirespresentation, as far as I can tell, is that the stuff is in the "trading card" category on eBay, when it is not a trading card.

Even so, it's pretty obvious what's going on with this stuff, and if someone wants to spend their money on it, I don't see what the problem is.

Being a Power Seller doesn't mean anything other than that you do a lot of business pretty consistently. The feedback requirement is ridiculously low, and I don't believe there is any refund requirement anymore. There was not, last time I looked.

bruce

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Posted By: Bruce Moreland

I don't think that there is anything wrong with it other than 1) it's mis-categorized, and 2) it's stupid.

If someone wants to complain about the first aspect, go for it, but I don't see that there is a problem with the second aspect, is there?

People collect bobble heads, after all.

If people are going to fling their money at everything that comes along, what can you do?

bruce

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

...

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels

1) ALL the cards and descriptions are misrepresented by virtue of being "graded" at ALL ! They are all trimmed PSA rejects!

2 ) JUST LIKE THE JACKSON AND THE MANTLE YOU PURCHASED FROM THESE VERY THIEVES!!!!

How can you support them even in principle when you got taken by these pilot fish of Rosen. This is Moser and VonDole or don't you know this!

hammering David,who never uses the i before e rule is no match for the rip off job these guys did to you!

I'd give up David for a chance to disclose these scamers again! now send back my PSA T-206's!

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Posted By: 2seamer

I agree that the NASA cut outs are just a deceitful scam to make $$$.......but the simple fact remains as Koos pointed out that there is no legal liability for selling these. In my opinion if someone is stupid enough to pay for these........then so be it. As far as the trimmed PRO graded T206's I agree that experts on this thread as well as others should help inform them (buyers). Slabbing trimmed and altered cards KNOWING IN FACT THAT THEY ARE ALTERED should have liability and legal reprocussions.

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Posted By: Bruce Moreland

I called and asked about the altered card that Mastro auctioned a few years ago, and they said it had "repainted borders", and that the alteration was easy to detect.

bruce

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

...where did Mom and I go wrong with you? I never said I SUPPORT them. My post wasn't about whether I thought they were right or wrong (apologies to Anthony Newley). I was specifically asking what DAVID'S pet peeve was since he pointed out to me, while demanding that I retract my Mantle Auction, that, "if an item is represented ACCURATELY, he won't DEMAND it be retracted, (or else)". I pointed out that LFA appears to be describing the item as being precisely what it is: a Paper-stock cut-out, so since this IS described aptly, what's his beef? No one said that collecting pictures cut into card size taken from magazines is a wonderful collectible but people collect all sorts of things. These people "grade" their magazine cutouts and present them THAT way. Presentation is 90% of selling ANYTHING from the most worthless kitchen gadget that NEVER does what it's supposed to, on up. You know the ART field better than anyone on this Board, and most probably better than anyone in the card hobby! YOU know when someone is WASTING their money. BUT, it's THEIRS to waste! C'mon B. If somebody is willing to pay $150,000 for some upcoming avante-garde artisit's 40 foot iron construction girder painted Zebra black and white, what are you going to do? Call a cop? Yeah, if he says it's a Rembrandt you should, but if he says, "I want $150,000 for my sculpture, "The Revenge of the Zebras" by ME", and someone is willing to fork it over, even though the Buyer could most assuredly do better in your estimation by investing that $150K elsewhere on REAL artwork, it's still the BUYER'S money, ignorant or not, and no laws have been broken. Every ChickenLittle on this Board is always yelling, "FRAUD...FRAUD..." and I merely CHALLENGED David to explain to me exactly what FRAUD and rules that David felt he was perpetuating and breaking. I mean, we can take this "throwing away your money crusade" to extremes. I've seen a player split 7's looking at a dealer's brick at the Blackjack table. Did sirens go off? Was Dan Mathewson there to arrest the Dealer for allowing the player to do that? Of course not. Was it a bad move? Of COURSE it was. Was it illegal for the dealer or house to let the player do that? Of course NOT! I just didn't see FRAUD in the description of LFA's items and I asked David to point it out to me, if he did.

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Posted By: David

I will answer your post succinctly, by asking you to show me where in this thread I used the word 'fraud.'

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels

that he sent back to you after you gave me S___t about how it was trimmed! let me put it in print for you pal...I am an expert on restored,repaired,restenciled,trimmed and any other wise altered card............your a little premee trying to play in a big boys World of true Vintage cards.........don't even bother responding or I'll have to call in the other two guys who sometimes post on here to chime in and explain how you tried to sell that piece of crap to them after Coover sent it back to you... agreeing with me is easy on this stuff. maybe you learned a thing or two since 14 months has gone by.

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels

implicating Mosser and VonDole is way more important that jabbing David.

Now about my T-206's you stated you sent three weeks ago! SEND BACK MY CARDS!!!!

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Posted By: David

I do wish to point out, that on a legal and even technical basis I agree with Koos. NASA, a related version of AAA, did misrepresent these cutouts, actually calling them trading cards. Today, AAA does not represent them as trading cards, so it is more than unlikely that they, or the seller, are breaking any laws (which is why I didn't use the word fraud). I also agree that some 'cutouts' have actual value and esteem in a hobby. Things like the Darby Chocalates or Harper's Woodcuts or some of the Police Gazzette's are essentially cutouts or tearouts. I also agree that buyers have the God given right to spend way too much on dumb things, and buyers prove this every day (even me once in a while).

My problem with Libertyforall et al is not that they are currently breaking the law, or even any eBay rule, but they are acting, in my opinion, unethically. Legal and etheical are not always one and the same. Ethical doesn't always mean what you can get away with legally.

I must admit, that I, off the cuff, dismissed your posts, but, after actually reading them, they are lucid.

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Posted By: 2seamer

Yes after speaking with BMW about the card I agreed that it was short and REFUNDED Coover. I am sure you do know alot about RESTORED/ALTERED cards. That doesn't change the fact that your juvenile emails were uncalled for. As I always do......Offered a refund to Coover and went on. I lived and I learned. Your petty threats are just that petty. As your PAL Koos pointed out earler to someone else......It is easy for guys like you to ramble and call names through a keyboard. You have no clue about me or who I am. Your so called "pals" that you forwarded my auction to were glad to fill me in on your personality. I would be careful who you forward your emails to in the future and weho you think really is your pal. A few people on this board were glad to inform me you have some screws lose & were always sending them junk (like your ex's pics) to them as well as other nonsense begging for their attention. Don't attack me again.....I have done nothing to discredit you even after your juvenile unrealistic threats. Let's just drop the 14 month old issue and move on. Can we do that? I have a strong feeling you cannot let this issue die. The 2 guys that I sold the card to after the fact STILL would buy from me and STILL keep in contact with me. It was an honest mistake that I simply corrected.

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Posted By: 2seamer

Just to clarify that that Cobb was not purchased from BMW cards. I just asked their opinion on the card.

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

...that seems pretty simple.

Look at the eBay heading under these AAA auctions:

Sports:Trading Cards:Baseball-MLB:Singles (Pre-1950):Graded


These are not trading cards. These are pieces of worthless paper cut out of periodicals (newspapers, magazines, etc.)

What other rules need to be violated? Also, they say they are graded. By AAA? That myay not be a rules violation, but it is one of the jokes of the century. Trying to lend credibility to something worthless.

Misrepresenation, once again. Not a trading card, but listed as one.

What else do you want/need?

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels

and again,for the record as stated on several threads now...I have never sold anyone a restored card! I have each and every one I ever restored. I resord them because I can! Plain and simple.And did so purely to express the lack of knowledge the graders have! The only person who even caught any of the alterations was the founder of SGC**...LOOK AT MY FEEDBACK 2-REAMER**
I HAVE NEVER SOLD A CARD ON E-BAY TO ANYONE!!! ALL PURCHASES....YOU , on the other hand were suspended**** BY E-BAY than wrote me blaming me for implicating you which in fact I never did!!! aND AS FAR AS HIDING BEHIND A SCREAN GOES! dO I SOUND LIKE A GUY WHO WOULD NOT CONFRONT SOMEONE FACE TO FACE??? I have met many a bro on this board and others. I have been around conventions and cards since the early 70's....if you do not think I would gladly confront you face to face you are kidding yourself. And know one on this board who has ever met me would tell you I have a lose screw either.I suspect you have not been married for 17 years now have you?? YOU could learn a lot from me.....all you have to do is appologize and it is forgotten! Now let's see who has the ability to put something behind them!!! Should I call you??? I have your number...you sent it to me! You can even come stay at my home in California for a few days and learn how not to buy things like that Cobb or advertise alleged grades they will not acquire.If you recall,I first wrote you explaining the card was no good! that's all! You owe me an appology bro!

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Posted By: JD~Lover

still stuck on that one...did I sell a misrepresented card to someone??? I want them or you to post the story here please because it never happened. And truly JD I will agree that you handled Coover fairly well.....you just did not respond initially to me very well when I asked you the standard questions concerning guaranteeing your grade or ANY grade of the Cobb,I knew was trimmed! You reamed me blue about your ability to grade and how I was full of it et..et..without even checking it out. Really,please tell me where I graded??? or misrepresented a card to anyone ,anywhere......personallity differences or not....people do not like scammers and none of your gossipy e-mails to anyone will ever state that I have scammed anyone....that is a fact pal-bro! or do you prefer "JD"?

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

Like the circular cut-out from a kelly cabinet card in a copper frame, as pictured in Rudd's second edition of his photyography book (and an auction about two years ago; wish I'd bid on it).

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Posted By: 2seamer

Brian-

I simply state what happended. The ONLY reason that I responded to you emails the way I did is because they were vulgar and full of crazy threats. I did not misrep anything I ever sold and not offer a refund. The Cobb got passed me I admit, but it was simply returned to me for a refund. As far as the people YOU forwarded all those emails to, about 15 responded saying that I should just simply ignore you as they all do. I just state the facts bro. I ADMIT to every witness on this board that I am not by any means a vintage expert, but that i like old cardboard and just collect it and resell on ebay to fund my habit. I will never know half of what you know or 90% of the people on this board, because it is not my life's goal. I simply enjoy the game and old cards period. What I do not enjoy is rediculous threats and vulgar emails.

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Posted By: 2seamer

BcD-

Thanks for the email. I am glad that we can put this behind us and gladly move on. I appreciate your apology for the emails and I apologize likewise for saying your screws were loose.

Jason

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Posted By: B C Daniels

how and why else would I forfeit so much of life for cardboard! And you did not receive 15 e-mails.

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Posted By: 2seamer

You're right. I think it was 17. ;P