warning: obnoxious jerk ahead

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Posted By: warshawlaw 

I just had one of the less pleasant experiences of my career with a relatively new seller on eBay and wanted to share the experience with you. The guy's eBay name is "jao614@aol.com". I bought a high end card from him in an auction that closed Monday night. I got an automated Paypal notice with its usual incomplete info. Yesterday evening I got the seller's first actual email with his address. NINE HOURS LATER I got the following gem:

"You won my auction ending 7-15. I have yet to hear from you, or even get a response to email. My auction rules clearly state, in bold, large, red letters, I must be contacted within 24 hours. You have already chosen to ignore this. You have until 5 PM EST 7-17 to contact me via email or telephone to make payment arrangements to honor your legally binding bid. Failure to do so will cause your bid to be rescinded Further, on 7-22 I will file non pay bidder, on 8-2 I will follow up with final value credit ( three of these and eBay suspends you ), after which I will leave negative feedback. I suggest you reread my auction rules clearly posted. If you do not agree with the rules you should not have bid. Thank you for your time and attention in this matter."

What makes it doubly fun is that this guiy cc'd like five other ebay members with his note to me--he must have this mailer set for automated dispatch to anyone who wins an auction from him and does not pay via paypal within 24 hours of the close of the auction. So, I am now a "bad bidder" in the eyes of a bunch of strangers.

I WILL be leaving him a nice, fat negative feedback, since my rating is six times his. I also sent an email to every person on that cc list asking them to do the same.

To top it all off, he wants $7 to ship one card, PLUS $6 more for insurance. In all fairness, he did state his extortionate shipping terms in the auction, so I underbid accordingly. All I can say is that for that much vig, the card better arrive wrapped for Armageddon and fully insured.

BTW, this guy's corporate name on Paypal is "Frustrated, Incorporated" so you can only imagine what dank portion of the world he crawled out of.

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Posted By: Brueso

The big postage and handling fees are always a red flag. Particularly when it's a high end auction, the idea that someone feels the need to drain a couple of extra dollars just amazes me.

I just put my first sell auctions out on e-bay (nothing anyone here would be interested in or I would've mentioned it in the buy/sell thread) and I'm charging $2.60 for first class postage including insurance. I may be losing out on another 50 cents or a dollar I could've charged (could've made insurance extra), but that's such a small amount of $$, I prefered to come up with something that is actually close to what my out of pocket will be. Throwing in insurance is more for my protection than the buyers- I want to make some attempt to keep away the "I didn't get it- give me my money back" crowd.

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

...I include it anyway. But then I slash their tires.

Yeah, the "draining an extra buck or two" thing is really laughable. I know a seller that charges absurdly high s&h, then will argue with you over what you charge him, trying to weasel you out of a buck or two! Like Adam said, though, read their rules and either play by them or don't bid. I think they are hoping that you won't notice the big numbers in their description and they can stick you big one time.

It's kind of like ajsportscards7 selling all these reprints he got in a recent "estate sale" (and he only has one copy of each, so don't go asking for multiple $9.99 copies of the same reprint!) - he doesn't mention in the title that they are reprints, probably hoping that some over-anxious bozo will jump on the BIN and read the description after it's too late.

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no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

You may also want to remind this JERK that eBay's rules also apply to SELLERs.

As a seller, he CAN'T reduce your response time to an auction as a winning bidder. eBay allows auction winners to have 7 days to respond to an auction. He can't reduce that for HIS auctions. There are some things he can do on his own (for example, set "whatever" he wants for P&H, although what he does charge is stupid). But, he can't usurp eBay's own policies and make response times MORE stringent on the winner of an auction. He can make them LESS stringent (if he wants to, say, give a person 14 days to reply to a winning auction). But he can't make that time shorter. Send him a link to this string, and then tell the CHILD to grow up.

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels

you bung! Hey, imagine what this guy's wife goes through! Mine would kick his ass and toss him out into the garage with a bottle of milk like on the Flintstones. 24 hours.I guess he sits all day at the keyboard ( like you do Scott you Putz ) and waits for guys to violate his rules....ask him to introdice himself to you at the national if he is going. personally, my favorite is to lock hands and squeeze until the metacarpules break and then left goe quickly and act surprised and appologize! The guy will be too embarrased and in pain to bother with you again. I tried this on one of Greg mannings employees once. it worked perfectly.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I thought he was awfully quick on the trigger to threaten me the way he did; I did not know that his doing so ran contrary to eBay policies. I will check it out and if that is what eBay says, I think a Safe Harbor report is merited. I guess we'll also engage in the usual mutual negative feedbacks over this.

I do appreciate the support that I am getting from the folks on this board. Often in collecting life when I am confronted with commercially unreasonable behavior, I feel like I have to step back a bit and ask whether I am being overly sensitive or whether there is a real issue. I certainly felt that way when I was banned from you-know-who's auction for returning a grossly overgraded lot in strict accordance with His rules, and I definitely felt that way this morning when I logged online, ironically enough, to pay for that auction and a few others. The fact that the folks on this board agree with my reaction is nice. I guess the old saying that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar really applies to all aspects of life. I just cannot get over the level to which commercial discourse has sunk in this country.

As long as we are on the subject, one more point of buyer-seller etiquette: my feeling is that it is the usual custom and practice on eBay for a seller to contact the buyer first. And I'm not talking about the automatic emails that bid systems like eBay or Paypal generate, since these mailers provide at most a link to the service but never the full info needed for payment. I mean, in this case, the Paypal generated message did not provide an address for check payments or even mention insurance costs, and I was no way going to buy an expensive item "naked" through the mail. It was the seller's email of yesterday evening (the one that came in nine hours before the "letter bomb") that first gave me a price of $6 on a $257 purchase for USPS insurance. In my view it is ridiculous for me as a seller to expect a buyer to contact me first; why would he or she since the details of the closing are not there?

PS: The guy called me this afternoon to confront me with his deep moral outrage over my post (at least I think it was him--the caller said he was in Florida but the payment address I got was in Ohio, so I don't know what was what on that). Nevermind that his e-mail rip this morning went to several other collectors, all of whom saw me portrayed as a renegging bidder, etc. After arguing with me about his rules, which quickly degenerated into silliness, he decided to void my bid and refund my payment (which was made this morning via Paypal). Whatever. Tell me, why is it that in many years of collecting and in literally thousands of transactions, I have had only two guys who ever created these kinds of problems and both of them threatened me with legal action when their tactics were made public? I guess I should take heart that I have had only a few such confrontations. . .

PPS: I really do not like that eBay gives out telephone numbers. I don't appreciate the confrontations. Is there a way to block this?

PPPS: I expect him to come on this board and post his thoughts (that was one of the things he said be was going to do). I am not even going to respond if he does. Ain't worth the time.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Dear Adam
The only way to block calls from insane ebayers is to screen your calls with caller id. I don't like the fact that ebay gives out numbers, but in the past it has helped me track down a few crooks and get my merchandise or money back. I hope your new "buddy" does post a response, because he won't do anything but dig his own grave. We have all dealt with a few crazy sellers and bidders over the years, but I'm surprised the numbers aren't much bigger.
Be well Brian

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

I sent an "ask the seller a question", commenting that his ebay post seemed a bit threatening;otherwise, I would be bidding on his items. His response was downright weird.

He actually did a "cut and paste" from this thread - apparently quite upset with us Interestingly, although violating ebay's rules himself, he thinks that somehow he can rely on them to "make all us mean people go away".

In case anyone would like to send this sicko a "get well" email, his name is W. Alecs Dean and his email is: JAO614@aol.com

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no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Scott,
The only way to fight the crooks and morons on Ebay is to annoy them as much as they do us. We will never get rid of all the crazies, but if we did, what would we have to complain about?
Why would any seller knowingly tick off an entire vintage card over one lousy email? Even if he thinks he won the battle with Adam , he has certainly lost the war. amused brian

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

Adam,

As you know, if one person asks ebay for contact info, ebay sends it to both, so you should have received an email with his address and phone number as well.



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no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

and when i win, I contact seller IMMEDIATELY (I know ebay says buyer and seller have 3 days to get in touch with each other). I don't want seller to get a higher offer out of the blue (since my snipes catch some people by surprise, and they think, "hey, I would have paid that much, I just didn't know... "), to change his mind, to forget that i won, etc. I DON'T WAIT. On the other hand, I am a model of patience, waiting for seller to get back to me.

I also email seller when (and how) I've sent my payment. I leave feedback immediately when item is received. Maybe people don't like this (or why don't more do it?) but I try to leave feedback about the item itself, not just "smooth transaction," etc. Like, today I got my 1991 Sotheby's Copeland catalogue, and besides "mint" and "gorgeous," I managed to get in "Look Ma, no slabs!"

After all, they've got something you want. All you have is stupid green money!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

More on the perplexing part of this story: The name on the guy from Florida does not match the name on the email I got from the seller requesting payment be sent to Ohio. I was emailed asking me to send a money order to "Grant Galik" in Ohio. The caller left me a voice mail claiming to be "Alex Dean". When he spoke with me, he claimed to be from Florida. He left a phone number with a 941 area code. Now, there is a third name to add to the lot.

The request that I send payment to another person entirely REALLY makes me suspicious. Perhaps this seller is real, perhaps he is a scammer, I have no idea. Many of the indicia of eBay scammers we have seen in the past are there, though: multiple names, demands for ultrafast payment through cash equivalents, overreactions to inquiries, rapidly escalating threats, and inexplicable address divergences. Comparing what I just went through to this guy's stated ultra liberal return policy and seemingly normal listings, it just makes no sense.

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

...I just sent an email to a friend who may be able to help out - I'll let you know what I hear.

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no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I paid through paypal since I wanted the card. While Grant/Alex/Alecs was threatening me over the phone in his morally outraged tone yesterday afternoon, he self-righteously declared that he was voiding the auction and refunding my money as soon as he got home (to Florida or Ohio, I don't know which). Of course, when I checked paypal this a.m., no refund. I have now opened an investigation with paypal and will be notifying my credit card company that I am disputing the charge. Last time I got a fraudulent deal on paypal, my money was repaid in full, so I am hopeful on this one. Once ebay takes over paypal, I assume that it will pull all of paypal's teeth and provide the same stellar level of customer protection and service as ebay (dripping with sarcasm).

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Posted By: jay behrens

That's the one thing that worries me too about eBay's purchase of paypal. On one hand, they may solve a lot of paypal's problems, but then may institute that ;seller first' policy' that even loves so much.

Supposedly paypal is to remain a sperate and independant entity from eBay, but only time will tell on that.

Jay

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Posted By: petecld

Sounds like you may not get anything even if you did pay. As was stated, if someone asks for your personal information, ebay sends to both parties. I've had to do this before and that was my experience.

I don't know the money amount involved here but in your situation I wouldn't pay anyone and just take the negative feedback or wait until you can figure out exactly who you won the item from. I'll take the negative feedback over getting ripped off any day.

Something is wrong with this deal.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

..whether you pay one, or three, guys for it, or not.

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

Total whacko. I can't post his last email because it contains stuff about Warshawlaw, but this guy is getting off on an incredible fantasy he has built around this stuff, including the posts in this thread. Apparently the entire planet revolves around him and he thinks that anything said by anyone, about anyone, or to anyone, involves him specifically.

It could be because so many threads have the word "psycho" in them.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

While this loonie won't respond to me at all, he is Scott's new best friend. Apparently, rather than do what he said he would do (void the auction and refund my payment) he told Scott that he has mailed me the card while also reporting me to the Burbank police department as a terrorist(?????) for my postings here and my threats (of negative feedback and reporting him to Paypal as a nonperforming seller).

All I can tell you is that if a package from this guy comes in, I don't know if I'm gonna open it. It'd be a shame to have the hazmat team wreck a nice card, but given this guy's utterly bizarre behavior, I just might.

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

Pleae keep in mind that most of the following has no tie to anything real, and that I have never referenced his dealings with Warshawlaw - all ties are figments of this kook's paranoid imagination.

"Do not email me further. I have filed criminal complaints with the Burbank, California PD, as well as the USPS, and FBI. If you reread the posted thread, you will note (as they have) the line where your cohort states I sent him a 'letter bomb'. I DID NOT, WOULD NOT, WILL NOT ever engage in any criminal activity. I sent this Adam Warshaw a package containing a sports trading card. Even a joke about explosives in the mail in this day is taken very seriously. Since I have sent him a package I felt it was necessary law enforcement know of these unfounded accusations.

I'm not sure where you come into play in all this. You and I have not engaged in any transaction. You may want to take care with whom you team up with anonymously on the computer. As you can see this is gonna be freight train no one should be in front of. All you have done so far is send some veiled threats to an online company concerning me, and threaten publicly to slash my tires. Up to you how you proceed now. Rest assured all correspondence will be forwarded to proper investigating authorities.

Interesting notes : I don't need an attorney to write a letter requesting you not contact me. All I need is for my request to be acknowledged (even verbal), which you did in your email. Under your little theory, no woman could charge harassment, stalking, or trespass, no matter how many hundreds of times a day she was called or written, if she first didn't have a lawyer write a letter. Try that one in court. Another thing, you seemed to not care for my auction rules : I want to be contacted in 24 hours, and paid in 168 hours. Your partner Warshaw took great issue when his item was NOT RECEIVED (from Florida to California) in 13 HOURS!! And you support this. A little inconsistent, and makes one wonder how many items you have delivered in this time frame.

Find attached, though none of your business, copies of insurance and delivery tracking numbers to your friend. He has already canceled payment. You support these positions of his. Tell me again who is out the money? 13 hours delivery? However, at this point, I think the money is secondary to the publicly posted threats of slashing tires, breaking bones (by your other partner), and explosive devices. If you wish to discuss any legitimate concerns you have my phone number. Any threats or continued illegal activity, please direct inquiries to ofc. Rodriguez of the Burbank PD 818 238-3200.

Ask yourself, before you go further, do you support, encourage, condone, and/or assist in the criminal activity?"


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no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Strangely enough, my self-righteous little friend has gone silent since his tirade over the phone, after promising me a refund as soon as he arrived home last night. I have not received the promised refund despite my email to him this morning demanding that he follow through as promised. Looks like the Paypal/Citibank fraud folks will have to handle it. Run, don't walk, from this guy's auctions.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Really nice, insane rantings, best of the month, I think. I especially like the report to the Burbank PD about an easterner; just a tad out of their jurisdiction. Afraid you've picked up a real admirer, Scott.

For the record, this guy's rant is total crap--Grant/Alex/Alecs told me that he was voiding the auction and refunding my Paypal payment on Wednesday night, which was fine with me. When he did not follow through, I reported the issue to Paypal. Now he claims that he has sent me the card. If the card is really enroute and is real, fine. If not, I'll let the fraud folks at Paypal/Citibank handle it. No matter what, negative feedback is going out to this wacko (I think that's how to spell it; I think the word doesn't have the "H" because it was a variant of wacky. One letter makes all the difference in the world with some words--add a letter to sit and you've got . . . But I digress).

I also note from the scan that was on the original email to Scott that Mr. Personality spent about $4 less than his shipping charges to send me the card. $3.85 priority mail plus $4.20 insurance plus say a buck for materials (on one card) does not add up to $13. A lesson well learned; if the shipping charges are way out of line with reality, the auction is probably hinky and we are best off staying away.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

open the package, if one arrives, I sure would like to know what's in it.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Yesterday he reported me to the police for making a terrorist threat. After about two minutes on the phone, the detective in charge readily concluded that this guy is insane and told me he would call him back and tell him so. Today I received another call from this guy. I think he was drunk or high, since he was slurring his words and laughing at something or another. He threatened to report me to the FBI this time. What a child--crank calls were cool, like, at age 9 or so. . .

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Posted By: John(z28jd)

crank calls arent cool anymore? i got in trouble for that yesterday(seriously) for calling resturants in an accent and ordering stuff they didnt have,and im a little bit older than 9 .....i was bored!

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Posted By: jay D Behrens

I always enjoy calling a business and asking for if any of the Wall's are there. Then there is calling Lee at work and asking him if he has 16 pound balls I also enjoy asking Lee to page Jack Mehoff.

Jay

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Posted By: warshawlaw

was this nutter calling again and saying that he was at LAX and was coming over to my office. Imagine that, yesterday he's reporting me as a terrorist and today he's claiming to have flown across the country to confront me. Needless to say, I relayed the matter to the local police, being as they already concluded that he is a loon. Next step is a phone dump with SBC so if this idiot calls some more, he will be traced and prosecuted for making harassing calls cross state lines.

Just goes to show you how far away from this seller you want to stay.

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

I first sent him a long, long e-mail asking for his justificaton of his ridiculously new response requiremens on eBay. Of course, no answer.

Several days later, I sent another message, asking this:

Hi -

I wanted to make sure you got my last e-mail. I still haven't heard back from you regarding where on eBay I can find the updated, now more-stringent response time rules for winning bidders.

Thanks!

Finally, I got this response from Freak-Man:

Any more contact from you I notify your ISP and law enforcement.
Ask your partner how many authourities he's had to talk to. Don't like my auctions, don't bid!


What a maniac. <laugh>

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

is something else. This guy is beginning to scare me.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I have been fielding emails from others he is harassing all day long. The negatives are beginning to flow (three in the last 24 hours). A couple more and only a fellow mentally challenged person would bid in his auctions. I'd report him to ebay but why bother; it's not like they'll do anything anyhow.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Maybe you should sick BcD on him! Maybe we could promote it at the National as the featured fly-weight bout!!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I reported the calls to ebay safe harbor. The following is their response:

Thank you for writing with your concern.

I am sorry that you have received phone calls of this nature. I can understand how this could be disconcerting.

First, I would like to strongly suggest that you immediately report this instance to your local law enforcement authorities. Unfortunately, we
are unable to take action based on reports of phone calls. You may want to contact your phone company since they will be better equiped to advise you in this situation.

However, If you have been receiving these threats via email, please send me a copy of the actual email along with its full header. As you may already be aware, the full header is extremely important, as we cannot
take any kind of action without it. I have pasted an additional example of what we are looking for below:

[I omitted the example to save space]

For security reasons we cannot open attachments sent to us. Therefore, please copy the contents of the message and header, and paste it into the body of your reply. As soon I have received this information, I will
be able to further investigate your situation.

Again, thank you for taking the time to write.

Regards,

Daria
eBay SafeHarbor
Investigations Team

I guess as long as you harass your buyers over the phone, eBay doesn't care. This guy now has multiple feedbacks reporting phone harassment and eBay's reaction is that of a coma victim on valium.