NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-06-2025, 11:49 PM
Lucas00's Avatar
Lucas00 Lucas00 is online now
Lüc@s Dëwėãšę
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,795
Default 1916 White Sox Broadside Research and history- Shoeless Joe!

Hi Everybody, I want to preface this by saying this write-up should be read when you have a few minutes and can view everything in detail. There will be a few news articles ill be referencing, that wont be the easiest things to read (scans of papers this old are very inconsistent). Dates and sources will be posted above each photo.
Its been a while since my last deep dive/investigation post. But I've gotten a new piece recently and have spent roughly 10 hours researching about it.

What I'm going to show and tell today is this March 29th, 1916 Broadside from the Chicago White Sox spring training In Mineral Wells Texas.

Condition is not perfect as the vast majority of broadsides this old are rough. Some random articles are attached to the back at a later date etc, there is also an attached billhead shown (more on that later)
1916 White Sox Vs Chicagos Broadside front and back.jpg

The story starts off with my own confusion and questions. Who are the Chicagos? I researched them for a while and could not find anything about them. So I moved to the smaller details, Obviously the team was from Chicago so the game would take place at the "Weatherford"? Fair Grounds in Chicago right? How else would the White Sox play the "Chicagos"? Every name named on the broadside was a member of the White Sox, no names led me to this elusive Chicagos team. So my assumption is the sox were heading back from spring training to play in Chicago at these grounds I have never heard of. Ok no problem, there are tons of ball grounds lost to time in the United States. However while researching, The Sox played a game the night before, March 28th. so unless the team was covering over 1000 miles in a single night there was no way that was correct. Especially seeing the boys drove down and didn't take a train. If you have caught on by now (I hadn't) Weatherford was a town in Texas.

South Bend news-times., March 29, 1916
South Bend news-times., March 29, 1916.jpg

I was concerned by the vocabulary used in the above article "were booked to". However this Clipping quickly disproved my doubts, it did happen. In hindsight this is just older english, "were" would just be "are" today. Further confirmed later after I found some key plays from the game.

NOTE: I actually found the second article shown before the first. I am posting this (mostly) In order so it makes more sense and eliminates the confusion I had when researching. So it will give some hindsight I did not have that you will have when reading.

South Bend news-times., March 30, 1916
South Bend news-times., March 30, 1916.jpg

Ok that is one mystery solved now onto the bigger one, who the heck are the Chicagos? Well if you had a hunch that it was just more White Sox players that were Billed as a different team on the broadside you are the winner! The Sox used terminology calling the main team the "Regulars" think Jackson. And the "volunteers" or the hopefuls of making the team. Though I would like to note, many of the Volunteers were really Regulars just playing for the volunteers (bench players etc). Essentially the team brought their full starting squad and split into two teams, the A (white sox) and the B team (chicagos). This seems to have been the attraction of the trip, not only did they create a broadside for the inter team game but they expected 10,000 people to show!


THE CHICAGO DAILY TRIBUNE MARCH 31 1916. Usage of Regulars and Volunteers terminology. This article is longer and mentions more but I didn't want to have a full page scroll in this writeup lol.
THE CHICAGO DAILY TRIBUNE MARCH 31 1916.2.jpg

Next step naturally is the game itself. Well unfortunately the game has almost zero surviving Coverage of what happened aside from a few key hits. The first would be both Eddie Collins and Shano Collins hit a homer. As well as Fred McMullen. Jack Lapp hit a triple, George Moriarity and Wally Mayer both Doubled (note how a few names were not starters, Mayer didn't even make the 1916 team) so both the Regulars and Volunteers got some coverage at least. Oh yea I almost forgot, SHOELESS JOE JACKSON hit 2 homers himself! Joe never hit 2 in one game during his whole career and most of them were inside the park. So two "Pole" shots vs fellow Sox players is pretty damn cool in my opinion.

The day book. March 30, 1916 Chicago Ill.
The day book. March 30, 1916 Chicago Ill.jpg



Some cool facts i wanted to add.
If you look at the back of the broadside, there is the fragment of a billhead attached to the bottom right. It is very hard to read, but half cut off at the very bottom it says Mineral Wells Tex. This billhead is from the "Crazy Well" Hotel. The Hotel is Still there today! It was renamed sometime later to the "Crazy Water" and seems like a very nice Hotel today. I wonder if this billhead might have belonged to a sox player, or players family member that stayed in the hotel during their time there. A fun thing to think about.

Another interesting thing I found while researching, was the prior day on the 28th it seems like several players had their Gloves and Shoes Stolen. I am thinking the players might have left everything sitting out. "Club House" probably just meant a pavilion or something lol. I did not look into Rowlands Goat, but I assume it was some kind of lucky goat they brought, as many teams were superstitious.

The West Virginian March 28th 1916
The West Virginian March 28th 1916.jpg





Hope you all enjoyed this pieced together story, I tried . This is my 3rd or 4th one of these deep dive style posts. I am thinking about maybe making some sort of identification/research service available to people who have mysterious items that they would like to know more about. I wonder if that is something people would be interested in? A bonus if you have read this far, I currently have a completely unique never before seen playing days card of a very famous Yankee that I am currently researching and am confident I will have it graded. It isn't babe or anything but it is a very significant top Yankee hofer. So keep a lookout for my next in depth research post!
__________________
I have done deals with many of the active n54ers. Sometimes I sell cool things that you don't see every day.

My Red Schoendienst collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/redsc...enstcollection

Last edited by Lucas00; 01-07-2025 at 12:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-07-2025, 12:28 AM
Swadewade51's Avatar
Swadewade51 Swadewade51 is online now
W@de
Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Posts: 283
Default

Great read Lucas! Thanks for taking us through your research and thought process. You know I'll always appreciate a deep dive. Well done!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-07-2025, 01:09 AM
Lobo Aullando's Avatar
Lobo Aullando Lobo Aullando is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Emerald, Evergreen
Posts: 307
Default

So, does "to pole" mean to hit a ball over the fence barely fair (and possibly off the pole), or is it carried over from rounders which uses posts as the safe haven? I suppose it could even mean "struck" since a bat is more or less a modified pole. Maybe it's option number four: none of the above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas00 View Post
Oh yea I almost forgot, SHOELESS JOE JACKSON hit 2 homers himself! Joe never hit 2 in one game during his whole career and most of them were inside the park. So two "Pole" shots vs fellow Sox players is pretty damn cool in my opinion.

The day book. March 30, 1916 Chicago Ill.
Attachment 646414
__________________
"Don't mistake activity for achievement." – John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-07-2025, 01:19 AM
Lucas00's Avatar
Lucas00 Lucas00 is online now
Lüc@s Dëwėãšę
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,795
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobo Aullando View Post
So, does "to pole" mean to hit a ball over the fence barely fair (and possibly off the pole), or is it carried over from rounders which uses posts as the safe haven? I suppose it could even mean "struck" since a bat is more or less a modified pole. Maybe it's option number four: none of the above.
It is strange, to say Joe "poled" his 2 while the Collins boys "poked" theirs. I am thinking your struck idea is the best guess.
__________________
I have done deals with many of the active n54ers. Sometimes I sell cool things that you don't see every day.

My Red Schoendienst collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/redsc...enstcollection
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-07-2025, 04:34 AM
tiger8mush's Avatar
tiger8mush tiger8mush is offline
Rob G.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 2,199
Default

fun read, thanks for sharing your investigation with us!
__________________
Collection on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/139478047@N03/albums
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-07-2025, 12:14 PM
Lucas00's Avatar
Lucas00 Lucas00 is online now
Lüc@s Dëwėãšę
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,795
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swadewade51 View Post
Great read Lucas! Thanks for taking us through your research and thought process. You know I'll always appreciate a deep dive. Well done!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger8mush View Post
fun read, thanks for sharing your investigation with us!

Thank you both!
__________________
I have done deals with many of the active n54ers. Sometimes I sell cool things that you don't see every day.

My Red Schoendienst collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/redsc...enstcollection
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-07-2025, 03:29 PM
Hoy'sNoDummy Hoy'sNoDummy is offline
Kevin K
member
 
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 35
Default Inning by inning recap of your game :)

Love this post, Lucas00. Where on earth did you unearth that poster?? What a find!!

I live about 25 minutes south of Weatherford (and about 45 minutes from Mineral Wells) in Granbury, TX.

You'll find a great inning by inning recap of this game on the Portal to Texas History website from the digital archive of The Daily Herald (Weatherford paper) of 3.30.1916.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67...675/m1/4/zoom/

Hope these attachments are viewable and link works ok
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3.30.16 CWS game.jpg (215.0 KB, 241 views)
File Type: jpg 3.30.16 CWS game (2).jpg (203.0 KB, 241 views)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-07-2025, 03:59 PM
Lucas00's Avatar
Lucas00 Lucas00 is online now
Lüc@s Dëwėãšę
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,795
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoy'sNoDummy View Post
Love this post, Lucas00. Where on earth did you unearth that poster?? What a find!!

I live about 25 minutes south of Weatherford (and about 45 minutes from Mineral Wells) in Granbury, TX.

You'll find a great inning by inning recap of this game on the Portal to Texas History website from the digital archive of The Daily Herald (Weatherford paper) of 3.30.1916.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67...675/m1/4/zoom/

Hope these attachments are viewable and link works ok
WOW! Fabulous find! That's awesome. I checked so many sources but did not find this local one! Awesome. I love that you are in very close proximity. I wonder if the grounds still exist on some fashion? A field, or parking lot etc.

I got the broadside in an auction 😄.
__________________
I have done deals with many of the active n54ers. Sometimes I sell cool things that you don't see every day.

My Red Schoendienst collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/redsc...enstcollection

Last edited by Lucas00; 01-07-2025 at 04:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-07-2025, 04:10 PM
Hoy'sNoDummy Hoy'sNoDummy is offline
Kevin K
member
 
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 35
Default

Not sure on ball field location - I'd have to look at the Sanborn maps maybe or find where the old Fair Grounds were. That area has grown up a lot.

There has to be a photo of this game out there somewhere. Too big a local event not to be photographed.

There's a 1916 Spring Training Joe Jackson photo on this link. Also a good 1917 Team Spring Training photo showing the split squad uniforms of that year, similar to what the article describes.

https://www.blackbetsy.com/photosTheChicagoYears.html

Last edited by Hoy'sNoDummy; 01-07-2025 at 04:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-07-2025, 06:39 PM
Lucas00's Avatar
Lucas00 Lucas00 is online now
Lüc@s Dëwėãšę
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,795
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoy'sNoDummy View Post
Not sure on ball field location - I'd have to look at the Sanborn maps maybe or find where the old Fair Grounds were. That area has grown up a lot.

There has to be a photo of this game out there somewhere. Too big a local event not to be photographed.

There's a 1916 Spring Training Joe Jackson photo on this link. Also a good 1917 Team Spring Training photo showing the split squad uniforms of that year, similar to what the article describes.

https://www.blackbetsy.com/photosTheChicagoYears.html
That 1916 photo is superb. And I agree, definitely at least a snapshot out there somewhere
__________________
I have done deals with many of the active n54ers. Sometimes I sell cool things that you don't see every day.

My Red Schoendienst collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/redsc...enstcollection
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-15-2025, 01:29 PM
Lucas00's Avatar
Lucas00 Lucas00 is online now
Lüc@s Dëwėãšę
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,795
Default

Photo mentioned in post above.
__________________
I have done deals with many of the active n54ers. Sometimes I sell cool things that you don't see every day.

My Red Schoendienst collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/redsc...enstcollection
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-15-2025, 10:52 PM
Tom S.'s Avatar
Tom S. Tom S. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 896
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas00 View Post
Another interesting thing I found while researching, was the prior day on the 28th it seems like several players had their Gloves and Shoes Stolen. I am thinking the players might have left everything sitting out. "Club House" probably just meant a pavilion or something lol. I did not look into Rowlands Goat, but I assume it was some kind of lucky goat they brought, as many teams were superstitious.

The West Virginian March 28th 1916
Attachment 646415
Back then, the term "getting someone's goat" meant that you upset or irritated them. Clarence "Pants" Rowland was the manager of the White Sox at the time.

Fantastic bit of history that you have there Lucas!

Last edited by Tom S.; 01-15-2025 at 10:57 PM. Reason: added manager info
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-16-2025, 10:00 AM
Lucas00's Avatar
Lucas00 Lucas00 is online now
Lüc@s Dëwėãšę
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,795
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom S. View Post
Back then, the term "getting someone's goat" meant that you upset or irritated them. Clarence "Pants" Rowland was the manager of the White Sox at the time.

Fantastic bit of history that you have there Lucas!
I had no idea that saying even existed. Makes much more sense with that context. And I appreciate it very much, glad you like it
__________________
I have done deals with many of the active n54ers. Sometimes I sell cool things that you don't see every day.

My Red Schoendienst collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/redsc...enstcollection
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What does the SABR Baseball Card History and Influence Research Committee do? DaClyde Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 12 12-23-2016 09:44 AM
What does the SABR Baseball Card History and Influence Research Committee do? DaClyde Watercooler Talk- ALL sports talk 5 12-14-2016 05:54 PM
$15 Shoeless Joe Jackson Broadside Poster - Price Drop ruth-gehrig Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T 6 05-26-2015 04:33 AM
Research request: Indy Indians 1916 nolemmings Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 0 05-03-2015 10:56 AM
SHOELESS JOE JACKSON 1916 M101-4 SGC 50 Archive Ebay, Auction and other Venues Announcement- B/S/T 2 09-11-2007 12:16 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:04 AM.


ebay GSB