Heritage Auctions last night

[e107collector]

I was watching a few lots last night, specifically the SGC 9 CJ Joe Jackson and the Tip Top Wagner PSA 1.

They had estimates listed, but the final bids came no where near these amounts. Does Heritage generally exaggerate this values, or is the market adjusting downward?

Estimate was $800K+ for Jackson - sold $504K
Estimate was $60K+ for Wagner - sold $36K

Another one was the PSA 7.5 52 Topps Mantle. I saw a previous sale in this grade in 2022 for $708,000. This card sold last night for $418K was the final bid I believe.

Prices are all over the place.

Tony N.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by e107collector

I was watching a few lots last night, specifically the SGC 9 CJ Joe Jackson and the Tip Top Wagner PSA 1.

They had estimates listed, but the final bids came no where near these amounts. Does Heritage generally exaggerate this values, or is the market adjusting downward?

Estimate was $800K+ for Jackson - sold $504K
Estimate was $60K+ for Wagner - sold $36K

Another one was the PSA 7.5 52 Topps Mantle. I saw a previous sale in this grade in 2022 for $708,000. This card sold last night for $418K was the final bid I believe.

Prices are all over the place.

Tony N.

I think the market is coming back to more reasonable levels. Definitely a lot of red arrows on vcp post war stars in 7’s and lower.

I view this as a healthy positive for the market long-term.

[Kevlo17]

I think prices are coming back to reality a bit - I saw several items also that came in around half of what they were predicted to be, and seems like it's been that way for the last few auctions.

[4815162342]

It may just be the time of year.

[MVSNYC]

As mentioned above, prices are all over the place...for example...

PSA 2.5 T206 Black (not Brown) Lenox Cobb Bat off sold for $102K

PSA 3 T206 Old Mill Cobb Bat On sold for $102K

Both incredibly strong prices.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

As mentioned above, prices are all over the place...for example...

PSA 2.5 T206 Black (not Brown) Lenox Cobb Bat off sold for $102K

PSA 3 T206 Old Mill Cobb Bat On sold for $102K

Both incredibly strong prices.

That Bat Off Black Lenox sold for 144K just over two years ago. And that Old Mill Bat On sold for 78K in April of 2020 so it's not a huge jump, but a PSA 6 sold for 90K three years ago.

What I wonder is why is that Black Lenox Cobb in a PSA 2.5 valued the same as an Old Mill Bat On in PSA 3? Isn't the Black Lenox much rarer?

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

As mentioned above, prices are all over the place...

I think he was joking. The examples may have been cherry-picked, but they were all tanking more or less identically.

[bandrus1]

N162 Anson was very strong

[BigfootIsReal]

Originally Posted by bandrus1

N162 Anson was very strong

I have a couple in an auction going on, let me just say, I'm pretty nervous as to where they stand right now. This is why I hate auctions, I ALWAYS get bent over. Changing my name on Monday to Ben Dover!!

[MVSNYC]

Originally Posted by calvindog

That Bat Off Black Lenox sold for 144K just over two years ago. And that Old Mill Bat On sold for 78K in April of 2020 so it's not a huge jump, but a PSA 6 sold for 90K three years ago.

What I wonder is why is that Black Lenox Cobb in a PSA 2.5 valued the same as an Old Mill Bat On in PSA 3? Isn't the Black Lenox much rarer?

Jeff, are you confusing the $144k sale with the Brown Lenox example that sold in Heritage in Feb. 2023?

PS- Glenn, I didn't interpret the OP to be joking. Prices are all over the place. Some high, and some low.

[bandrus1]

Originally Posted by BigfootIsReal

I have a couple in an auction going on, let me just say, I'm pretty nervous as to where they stand right now. This is why I hate auctions, I ALWAYS get bent over. Changing my name on Monday to Ben Dover!!

Where r they

[BigfootIsReal]

Begins with R. I know bidders always wait for the last ten seconds, but still think I'm doomed. LOL

[raulus]

Originally Posted by BigfootIsReal

Begins with R. I know bidders always wait for the last ten seconds, but still think I'm doomed. LOL

I wouldn’t stress about it too much. Lots of items triple or more on the last day, and even just in extended bidding. But I understand the paranoia. Good luck, and hopefully all of your wildest dreams come true.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by e107collector

Another one was the PSA 7.5 52 Topps Mantle. I saw a previous sale in this grade in 2022 for $708,000. This card sold last night for $418K was the final bid I believe.

The lower grades are still ridiculous though. For example, you need about 25 - 30k USD to own a PSA 1 example that looks like it came outta' somebody's a**!

[brunswickreeves]

1952 Topps Mantle card’s prices are drastically influenced by eye appeal; the below were UP vs same grade in HA’s prior auction(s)…

Grade @ price of this HA auction vs price from prior HA auctions:

2 @ $38.4K vs $28.8K on 8/25 vs $31.2K on 6/22
3 @ $52.8K vs $51.6K on 10/6 vs $46.8K on 7/13
5 @ $108K vs $105K on 10/6 vs $84K on 5/18
5.5 @ $96K vs $75K on 10/6

[Webster]

$432,000 for a 1949 Bowman Robinson PSA 9.

Strong

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

As mentioned above, prices are all over the place...for example...

PSA 2.5 T206 Black (not Brown) Lenox Cobb Bat off sold for $102K

PSA 3 T206 Old Mill Cobb Bat On sold for $102K

Both incredibly strong prices.

The Black is actually tougher than the Brown for the Cobb bat off. I think that example is the only black Lenox graded by either company.

[Rhotchkiss]

For some reason I think I recall that "estimated values" can reflect the amounts the consignor and auction house agreed to for insurance purposes. Thus, its not always a true estimate.

Regardless, estimates are almost always wrong. I dont understand why AHs put them. When the estimates are higher than the final price, it looks like the AH sucks. When the estimates are lower, it looks like the AH cant value the cards.

And I agree, the overall value of cards are down from a few years ago, in some cases substantially. Still, today's values far exceed pre-Covid.

[jsfriedm]

Generally speaking (with many exceptions), it seemed that 19th century prices keep going up, pre-war is close to flat, and post-war is declining (all in line with trends of the past year or two). One that stood out to me was the PSA 8 Mays rookie that went for 157K.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

. One that stood out to me was the PSA 8 Mays rookie that went for 157K.

Was it just me, or did it look like there was some damage on the front of the card? Could have just been the slab, but it looked pretty sketch to me.

Look closely at his face and right around it. Sure looked like some surface wear to me, but could just be a printing defect. Either way it doesn’t look nice.

[jsfriedm]

Originally Posted by raulus

Was it just me, or did it look like there was some damage on the front of the card? Could have just been the slab, but it looked pretty sketch to me.

Look closely at his face and right around it. Sure looked like some surface wear to me, but could just be a printing defect. Either way it doesn’t look nice.

The one at REA is cleaner, currently at 111K with buyer's premium. It will be interesting to see where it finishes on Sunday.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

The one at REA is cleaner, currently at 111K with buyer's premium. It will be interesting to see where it finishes on Sunday.

Yep yep yep.

They’ve sure come down a long ways from the $350k they briefly touched during the pandemic.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by raulus

Was it just me, or did it look like there was some damage on the front of the card? Could have just been the slab, but it looked pretty sketch to me.

Look closely at his face and right around it. Sure looked like some surface wear to me, but could just be a printing defect. Either way it doesn’t look nice.

-
Wow! how does that make an 8? I'll take my 3.5.
-

[LEHR]

I was busy all day yesterday and never bothered to check the auction because I thought it all ended today (12/06). I logged in as soon as I woke up this morning to see where everything was at and the auction was closed on everything I had bids on. I'd have definitely pushed several items higher. Oh well, REA ends this weekend so I guess there's just more money for that now.

[mq711]

Originally Posted by raulus

Was it just me, or did it look like there was some damage on the front of the card? Could have just been the slab, but it looked pretty sketch to me.

Look closely at his face and right around it. Sure looked like some surface wear to me, but could just be a printing defect. Either way it doesn’t look nice.

Lots of surface issues for an PSA8, thought it would be a 5.5; though centering and corners are solid.

[Fall1963]

Hope the '33 Goudey Ruth's come down a bit more.

[toppcat]

Two of the "big three" 1951 Topps MLAS went pretty low IMO, only the Stanky seemed to be about where it should have been but the other two didn't even come close to the prices for the 2018 proofs in REA. The 2018 handcut Roberts proof went for exactly double the $66K Heritage hammer.

Too many auctions?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Jeff, are you confusing the $144k sale with the Brown Lenox example that sold in Heritage in Feb. 2023?

PS- Glenn, I didn't interpret the OP to be joking. Prices are all over the place. Some high, and some low.

Nope. Summer 2022 REA. Black Lenox Bat off PSA 2.5 sold for 144K.

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=112449

[MVSNYC]

Hi Jeff,

Ah thanks! Looks like the Black Lenox is a 1 of 1, and the Brown Lenox there's a few examples, I believe you have one (killer card!).

Hope all is well, we are overdue for a Steak at Sparks!

[packs]

Thought I made out pretty well picking up this Paige. It sold for about what his signed business cards have been selling for:

[Kutcher55]

My buddy grabbed a Jim Palmer RC PSA 9 for 3600 plus buyer’s premium. Seemed like a great price. Less than 100 pop and no 10s. We were both surprised his bid held up.

[Exhibitman]

It is an odd one right now: the hobby is booming on the whole with insane show attendance and tremendous activity (look at the sheer number of auctions), but everyone wants to steal every deal. One newb asked me for high end cards at discount prices. Still laughing about that one.

Given the prices, I suspect that many of the mundane but expensive cards that are selling at disappointing levels are from long-time collectors who are cashing out by choice or by circumstance (death or incapacity).

[BobbyVCP]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

cashing out by choice or by circumstance (death or incapacity).

Are we getting to this point

[Aaron Seefeldt]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Hi Jeff,

Ah thanks! Looks like the Black Lenox is a 1 of 1, and the Brown Lenox there's a few examples, I believe you have one (killer card!).

Hope all is well, we are overdue for a Steak at Sparks!

The Black Lenox Cobb was a “new discovery” that was fresh to the market 2 1/2 years ago so it had a lot of helium going into the final night then it sells the 2nd time w a lot of the helium gone (not hyped at all by HA). I do think this will happen with many of the Morehouse Baking cards too.

[tjisonline]

cool item. i think luke consigned it along w/ a 1976 promo card

Originally Posted by packs

Thought I made out pretty well picking up this Paige. It sold for about what his signed business cards have been selling for:

[Belfast1933]

Had my eye on this but want out of my budget at the end…

Anyone here win this? If so and having regrets, my message board is open!

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

Are we getting to this point

Demographically speaking, yes. The kids who collected cards in the golden age of topps (1952-56) are octogenarians now. The sixties kid collectors are in their seventies. Hell, the oldest of Gen X are turning 60 next year. We are at the start of what will be the largest transfer of wealth in history as the Boomers start to die off or downsize. No reason to think that their card collections are somehow immune from that trend.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

-
Wow! how does that make an 8? I'll take my 3.5.
-

It would never get an "8" if you or I submitted it. Not in a million years.

And I would also take your 3.5 over the 8 any day. A far superior image, and just further proof of how subjective, random, arbitrary and inconsistent "professional grading" is.

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by bandrus1

N162 Anson was very strong

That cards been moving up for a while now, rare beautiful card imo. Based on its age, rarity, player and eye appeal prob should be worth a lot more especially compared to many other more valuable cards.

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by BigfootIsReal

I have a couple in an auction going on, let me just say, I'm pretty nervous as to where they stand right now. This is why I hate auctions, I ALWAYS get bent over. Changing my name on Monday to Ben Dover!!

Where's the auction, will be interesting to see where it ends

[Luke]

Originally Posted by calvindog

That Bat Off Black Lenox sold for 144K just over two years ago. And that Old Mill Bat On sold for 78K in April of 2020 so it's not a huge jump, but a PSA 6 sold for 90K three years ago.

What I wonder is why is that Black Lenox Cobb in a PSA 2.5 valued the same as an Old Mill Bat On in PSA 3? Isn't the Black Lenox much rarer?

There are only a handful of the OM out there. Toughest HOF OM.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by perezfan

And I would also take your 3.5 over the 8 any day.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Why is it that every 8 of a major card is short or narrow in the holder?

[oldjudge]

Peter—-the grade is inversely proportional to the card’s surface area.

[MVSNYC]

Speaking of Heritage...and prices...dozens of T206 PSA 8s closed tonight. The prices were off the charts.

[tjisonline]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why is it that every 8 of a major card is short or narrow in the holder?

unfortunately, many of the high graded vintage cards are likely from the JoeO era of PSA grading trimmed cards.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

The one at REA is cleaner, currently at 111K with buyer's premium. It will be interesting to see where it finishes on Sunday.

Looks like $180k for the copy over at REA:

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=202213

Certainly better than the HA copy did, but also down from even the last 12 months, where it was more commonly in the ~$250k range.

[jsfriedm]

Originally Posted by raulus

Looks like $180k for the copy over at REA:

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=202213

Certainly better than the HA copy did, but also down from even the last 12 months, where it was more commonly in the ~$250k range.

I think the Mile High copy might be even nicer, currently at about 117K. A lot of PSA 8 Mays rookies available...

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

I think the Mile High copy might be even nicer, currently at about 117K. A lot of PSA 8 Mays rookies available...

No longer have the “someday Willie will die and the card may explode in value” factor in the equation.

[samosa4u]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDZkMlu_710

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=202225