New BODA allegations against en ebay seller

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1455615

[Eric72]

Of the many sad things about this story:

1. The greed monster strikes again and 99% of the hobby will do nothing
2. Cards are being altered and will never again return to their original state
3. Card doctors and other bad actors continue to operate with no apparent fear of repercussions
4. The hobby continues to become (for many) more about the holders than the cards

[Tao_Moko]

I've been buying up lower grade, wide borders for awhile. Laugh now, but "original" may become a thing.

[D. Bergin]

Yeah, but we need to be worried about that 2.5 that CSG gave out.


It's ok guys. PSA just doubled their prices and lengthened their wait times. It should help to cut down on all the fraud.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's Fed Ex but could be PSA these days.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

I've been buying up lower grade, wide borders for awhile. Laugh now, but "original" may become a thing.

Not laughing. Sounds like a good idea.

[Stampsfan]

Honestly, people go to this much trouble for $50-$150 profit on a common?

The golf business in FL must be in rough shape.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

Honestly, people go to this much trouble for $50-$150 profit on a common?

I don't know how long it takes to create that $100 profit on a common, but I'm betting that it adds up to a pretty good hourly / daily / weekly rate.

The median income in the US is approximately $1000 per week, which means that half of the working population makes less than that.

I interpret those numbers to mean that if a person trims two cards a day, then makes $100 profit on each of them, that person would make 40% over the US median income, just from trimming cards and their trimming "job" might just be their side gig.

Doug "I'm just saying..." Goodman

[Johnny630]

Rotatrim!!!!!!!! The Beat Goes On.

[Piratedogcardshows]

Got emmmmm

[brob28]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

Honestly, people go to this much trouble for $50-$150 profit on a common?

The golf business in FL must be in rough shape.

My guess is these "doctors" start on lower value cards before moving on to higher dollars. But, yeah must not be a lot of lessons being taught!

[becollie]

To start, want to make clear I think doctoring of any sort is wrong ... flat out inexcusable ... so please don't infer that I am trying to defend these folks.

That said, if a printing plate had these flaws ... isn't it fair to assume that these print marks would be carried over on multiple cards? It looks like some of these specs have faded a bit which could imply being from later in the print run. Further the colors on the backs of the cards differ quite a bit which would suggest different cards.

Again, not trying to defend these folks... really just curious ... as the arguments seem to imply that there could only be one card with these marks / identifiers

And wow, how in the world to these BO detectives have the time to find these things. Impressive detective work.

Thanks

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

Honestly, people go to this much trouble for $50-$150 profit on a common?

The golf business in FL must be in rough shape.

If you read slightly further down in the thread, there's a Tony Perez that went from $63.00 to $2129.

I don't know how much a "Golf pro" makes......but it takes me and my wife a long time to make that much money in any of the various things we do.

[BumBum]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

I've been buying up lower grade, wide borders for awhile. Laugh now, but "original" may become a thing.

It absolutely is. Ever since I got back into the hobby a few years ago, I have been consistently buying lower grade cards for my PC. I never had any desire for the exponentially higher priced counterparts. As long as the card isn’t mutilated, I actually kind of like the presence of vintage wear. For me, it brings it more to life and makes me think of all the hands it has been in over the years.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by becollie

To start, want to make clear I think doctoring of any sort is wrong ... flat out inexcusable ... so please don't infer that I am trying to defend these folks.

That said, if a printing plate had these flaws ... isn't it fair to assume that these print marks would be carried over on multiple cards? It looks like some of these specs have faded a bit which could imply being from later in the print run. Further the colors on the backs of the cards differ quite a bit which would suggest different cards.

Again, not trying to defend these folks... really just curious ... as the arguments seem to imply that there could only be one card with these marks / identifiers

And wow, how in the world to these BO detectives have the time to find these things. Impressive detective work.

Thanks

BODA does not post altered cards unless the proof of alteration is conclusive. They have hundreds more that you’ll likely never see, for which the evidence is incomplete or not 100%.

And it is the paper fibers that are most often used as the common tell-tale identifiers. No two cards have the same “pulp” patterns or specs of paper fiber. It’s not the printing... it’s the paper (of which no 2 pieces are exactly the same).

[becollie]

Thanks Mark. Very helpful.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

BODA does not post altered cards unless the proof of alteration is conclusive. They have hundreds more that you’ll likely never see, for which the evidence is incomplete or not 100%.

And it is the paper fibers that are most often used as the common tell-tale identifiers. No two cards have the same “pulp” patterns or specs of paper fiber. It’s not the printing... it’s the paper (of which no 2 pieces are exactly the same).

I don't think in close to two years I've seen a single instance where someone has said, you're wrong I still have that "before" card.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't think in close to two years I've seen a single instance where someone has said, you're wrong I still have that "before" card.

I second that.

[JollyElm]

What makes this all even more infinitely depressing, is the fact that (as others have said) this takes an incredible amount of time, effort and research to find these cards. A mind-numbingly ridiculous amount of time!! To us normal folks, this is an impossible undertaking, so just imagine how many countless altered cards are out there outside of the ones BODA has 'discovered.' There is no conceivable end to that number. (I can't possibly put enough exclamation points at the end of this word) Yowza!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

What makes this all even more infinitely depressing, is the fact that (as others have said) this takes an incredible amount of time, effort and research to find these cards. A mind-numbingly ridiculous amount of time!! To us normal folks, this is an impossible undertaking, so just imagine how many countless altered cards are out there outside of the ones BODA has 'discovered.' There is no conceivable end to that number. (I can't possibly put enough exclamation points at the end of this word) Yowza!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The thing to me that makes this so bad is the doctor is off the hook once the card gets in a holder, the auction houses are being put in a bad situation, Brian Did the right thing and I commend him for that fully.

Does anyone know what happened to the gentleman with the 48 Leaf Jackie ?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

The thing to me that makes this so bad is the doctor is off the hook once the card gets in a holder, the auction houses are being put in a bad situation, Brian Did the right thing and I commend him for that fully.

Does anyone know what happened to the gentleman with the 48 Leaf Jackie ?

There's a separate thread devoted to that card, as you probably know. If we are lucky, the OP will provide us with an update in that thread.

But more realistically, I would bet that whatever settlement is reached (between PSA and the Leaf Jackie owner) will remain confidential. In other words, I believe that the monetary terms of the settlement will include an "agreement" not to discuss any of the details in a public forum.