Burdick Award finalists

[insidethewrapper]

Where is Bob Lemke, Lew Lipset etc. I was only familiar with 3 of the 5 names and I've been collecting since 1958 and been a dealer since 1978.

https://sabrbaseballcards.blog/2020/...ard-finalists/

[GaryPassamonte]

The finalists should be no surprise. The HOF has a special expertise for getting it wrong.

[jason.1969]

Nominations this first year were limited to living persons, meaning Bob Lemke would not have been eligible. Perhaps that's a criterion that will change in the future. Were the Committee to consider deceased contributors, I have to imagine Jefferson Burdick himself would have been the winner, seeing as he is the award's namesake.

With luck, our Baseball Cards Research Committee will continue this award many years into the future and be able to add to the list of winners. However, we are thrilled to have Mike Aronstein as our inaugural recipient and would happily put his qualifications "mano a mano" up against anyone's past or present.

[RCMcKenzie]

Congratulations...(not my card)

[GaryPassamonte]

Why would the nominees be limited to living persons? That criterion eliminates worthy candidates. I would think that the earliest card researchers and cataloguers would have priority. The HOF did the same thing with 19th century players. Many of the pioneers of the game were not seriously researched and considered, while more "modern" candidates were elected. I just believe the pioneers should be considered first or they run the risk of being pushed aside and forgotten. The HOF doesn't like dead inductees. It makes for a smaller party. Reference the 2013 election. I realize we may be talking apples and oranges here, however I am partial to taking care of the pioneers first. Also, I realize this is a SABR project, not a HOF award. My previous post expressed my dissatisfaction with the HOF. Sometimes I need to vent.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

Why would the nominees be limited to living persons? That criterion eliminates worthy candidates. I would think that the earliest card researchers and cataloguers would have priority. The HOF did the same thing with 19th century players. Many of the pioneers of the game were not seriously researched and considered, while more "modern" candidates were elected. I just believe the pioneers should be considered first or they run the risk of being pushed aside and forgotten. The HOF doesn't like dead inductees. It makes for a smaller party. Reference the 2013 election. I realize we may be talking apples and oranges here, however I am partial to taking care of the pioneers first. Also, I realize this is a SABR project, not a HOF award. My previous post expressed my dissatisfaction with the HOF. Sometimes I need to vent.

Most SABR award winners have been for living people. As a person who has been a member of SABR for most of the past 35 years I understand the logic of keeping this award to the same principle as the other SABR awards.

Maybe in this case there can be a founders/developers category just as there should be a founders category for some of the original researchers.

Then people such as Woody Gelman, Frank Nagy, Bob Lemke etc. can be honored as well as the living.

Rich

[jason.1969]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Then people such as Woody Gelman, Frank Nagy, Bob Lemke etc. can be honored as well as the living.



Rich

That’s a great suggestion, Rich, and one I’ll take back to the committee. BTW, don’t forget Sy Berger!

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

That’s a great suggestion, Rich, and one I’ll take back to the committee. BTW, don’t forget Sy Berger!

That's a gimme for that category -- next time I'll think of more names before I type

Rich

[GaryPassamonte]

Rich- I, too, have been a SABR member for a long time, over 25 years. I just don't understand what the logic is for only considering living persons? Is the answer obvious?

[oldjudge]

Of those up for the award I thought Keith was the most deserving. He is both a great collector and a student of the hobby. He has written some incredibly insightful articles on a variety of sets, and has always been free to share his knowledge.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

Rich- I, too, have been a SABR member for a long time, over 25 years. I just don't understand what the logic is for only considering living persons? Is the answer obvious?

Gary:

I have never been in any sort of SABR management but I think the answer is obvious. In the earlier days of SABR a high percentage of members attended the conventions and you wanted to honor those actually doing the work.

Now the percent of attendees may be 10 percent of total membership and as such, it's a little different BUT as has been stated about the HOF honoring the long gone retired players -- how do you honor a person who is no longer living. So, you honor those who are still amongst us. But, as we have aged and as the percent of members attending has decreased, I don't have a real issue with giving awards to people who have passed.

[999Tony]

i Strongly recommend rob Fitts’ mashi and banzai babe Ruth books. Really interesting. I’m Not a shill— I liked the book about Wally yonamine but not as much as the others. I am looking forward to reading his other books (he has another coming out soon or maybe already out)

No idea re whether or not this makes him a worthy recipient of the award

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Of those up for the award I thought Keith was the most deserving. He is both a great collector and a student of the hobby. He has written some incredibly insightful articles on a variety of sets, and has always been free to share his knowledge.

#1 on all of the above

[nat]

The Nobel Prize is also restricted to living people, FWIW.

Here's a link to Rob Fitts' history of Japanese baseball cards. He doesn't post much, but he's actually a member here.

[GaryPassamonte]

I understand what your saying, Rich. Those that are deceased can no longer appreciate the honor. In some cases, however, their families can appreciate it, even though, in the case of the Burdick Award, this might not be true. For example, I am on my high school athletic HOF committee. I have spent a good deal of time reseaching pre-1950 athletes from the school and have nominated and helped many get elected. In the cases where the elected individuals were deceased, a family member has accepted the plaque in every instance. Some family members have traveled as much as a couple thousand miles to see their relative inducted and have been moved by the experience. I am getting a little away form the original topic, but an award/honor can have benefits beyond the recipient.

[obcmac]

Very happy to see obc'er Rob Fitts among the nominees. I personally feel that Beckett, while important, has a very large negative contribution to the hobby...the focus on prices and condition has added no positivity as far as I can see. Rob's books have added to the depth of baseball knowledge in a much more positive way. I very much appreciate what KO has done for the hobby as well. My two top choices

Mac Wubben

[buymycards]

I would have to agree with the selection of Mike. I recently purchased 900 minor team sets that I have listed on eBay. Mike must have invested 1000's of hours of research just compiling the rosters, plus obtaining stats, photos, and keeping tracking of the ever changing roster of players during the course of the season.

Producing these 100's of sets was a major undertaking, which he did very thoroughly and precisely and he was able to produce early cards of many players and coaches who went on to become hall of famers.

Rick

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by obcmac

Very happy to see obc'er Rob Fitts among the nominees. I personally feel that Beckett, while important, has a very large negative contribution to the hobby...the focus on prices and condition has added no positivity as far as I can see. Rob's books have added to the depth of baseball knowledge in a much more positive way. I very much appreciate what KO has done for the hobby as well. My two top choices

Mac Wubben

I think one could argue that the baseball card boom in the early 80's happened as a direct result of Dr. Beckett's pricing guides being readily available. IT allowed everyone to actually put a definitive price on their cards and therefor helped to fuel the fire of those who were currently collecting and those who had long ago put away their cards in attics and now wanted to rekindle their childhood passion. I know personally that, while I was an avid collector for eight years before the first book form price guide appeared in bookstores it wasn't until I ran across the first Beckett in a mall located in Omaha, Nebraska (I lived in Illinois but was ditching a wedding I didn't want to go to) did I realize what my collection was worth and helped me to start very successful card shows from my parents garage. I do believe, without a doubt Dr. Beckett deserves consideration for this honor.

Now let's talk about the Gummy Arts guy....I find it very hard to have any interest in those cards and cannot understand the desire to won them. Nothing against Mr. Noren but those cards are not attractive in my opinion.

[drcy]

As a side note, the Nobel Prize is given only to living people (sorry, Rosalind Franklin fans). There were even questions if John Nash deserved his because, while alive, he hadn't worked in some years due to being schizophrenic.

[Al C.risafulli]

I'm so thrilled to see Mike recognized this way. I have such an appreciation for SABR and all they do, and so I know how much diligence must've gone into this.

If you are of a certain vintage, as I am, the various TCMA issues were absolutely vital - so many of us kids in the 70s and 80s were infatuated with cards but didn't have the budgets for the real "oldies" (as we called them). It was through the TCMA issues that we learned about the '27 Yankees, the '60 Pirates, the great players and teams of yesteryear - and also the thousands of minor league players and teams scattered throughout the country that, in the days before cable TV and 24-hour sports networks, we would never have otherwise learned about.

I remember I would rip out old TCMA ads from hobby publications and circle the sets I wanted, so that my mom could pick out a few for my birthday every year. I still remember getting that 1927 Yankees set, the joy of owning a Babe Ruth baseball card, and reading the stats on the backs of players I'd never heard about before. From there, it was only a few steps away from trying to track down actual playing days cards of some of those guys.

I'd bet that Mike Aronstein and TCMA are probably responsible for creating more vintage collectors than anyone. I know that there were a lot of worthy candidates for this, so, bravo to SABR, kudos to Mike.

-Al

[GeoPoto]

Originally Posted by drcy

As a side note, the Nobel Prize is given only to living people (sorry, Rosalind Franklin fans). There were even questions if John Nash deserved his because, while alive, he hadn't worked in some years due to being schizophrenic.

The Nobel "Prize" is more than recognition/honor, the prize is $$$. It is expected to reward accomplishment and subsidize further discovery, which doesn't work as well with those who have passed.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

The Nobel "Prize" is more than recognition/honor, the prize is $$$. It is expected to reward accomplishment and subsidize further discovery, which doesn't work as well with those who have passed.

Good point. Except many Nobel Prize winners are really old, and it is given when they are retired.

[Leon]

Congrats to all of the recipients. Very well deserved!
I also hope SABR will do an all inclusive HOF of collectors with our founding fathers (deceased) included. Personally, I don't think there can be anyone ahead of the person named for the award.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...Burdick+letter

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[jason.1969]

Originally Posted by Leon

Congrats to all of the recipients. Very well deserved!

I also hope SABR will do an all inclusive HOF of collectors with our founding fathers (deceased) included. Personally, I don't think there can be anyone ahead of the person named for the award.



https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...Burdick+letter



.

I will take the idea to the Awards Subcommittee. No shortage of deserving folks!

[Exhibitman]

I'd suggest that Beckett was an overall positive contributor to the hobby but less of a pioneer than a refiner. Card publications and card pricing publications preceded Beckett's work but he definitely took it into the modern age. To analogize, he didn't invent the game of baseball but he did organize the modern professional league.

Echoing Al's comments, as a child of the 1970s I too have a soft spot for TCMA. I even collect the cards today.

[TCMA]

Thought you guys might be interested in my new thread, related to the convention my father hosted at his home 50 years ago today :

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...37#post1962237