Security at Trade Shows

[lowpopper]

Due to the recent rash of theft that seems to repeatedly take the fun out of
buying and selling at shows, one thinks what can be done?

In a joint effort between myself and show promoter Jim Ryan, temporary
surveillance cameras will be erected at the October White Plains show. Blanket
coverage of the venue will be present along with options for dealers to rent
in-booth cameras.

As we all know, this will not prevent every instance of crooked behavior, but our
aim is to thwart as much wrongdoing as possible. This, along with obtaining the
ability to review footage of incidents should help ease the minds of customers
and dealers alike.

I hope this message finds everyone well. See you in White Plains!

[quitcrab]

Boy that is great ! Hopefully this may deter some theft and the show would have the guys picture on tape so he/she can be caught. It is a shame that it has come to that, but this is the world we live in. Just a stupid reminder on my part. Dealers keep an eye on those expensive cards and keep the cases locked at all times.

Also watch out for " the switch" . Make sure you know the last couple serial numbers of your cards and make sure it matches the card that is being handed back to you.
Its also a good idea to have photos file of the most expensive cards you own.

[Gnep31]

Does the show promoter allow you to bring your own security? A well placed sign letting potential thief's know that you are packing will deter all but the very dumbest.

[Jewish-collector]

Drill a hole in the top of the slab and put one of those computer wire & locks and attach it physically to dealers show case or something that can't move (pole, table leg, etc,....) The customer would be able to look at the card all day and the dealer can turn away. If the thief cuts the wire, a very loud alarm goes off. That would deter most thieves trying to steal the card.

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by Gnep31

Does the show promoter allow you to bring your own security? A well placed sign letting potential thief's know that you are packing will deter all but the very dumbest.

Unless you are a cop or have a legit reason and paperwork to conceal then:

CRIMINAL POSSESSION OF A WEAPON AND FIREARMS OFFENSES IN NEW YORK
One of the most serious offenses in New York State – especially within the City of New York – is the Criminal Possession of a Weapon or Firearm under the New York Penal Law. Ranging from the possession of an illegal blade to loaded antique firearms, New York’s weapon laws cast a wide net in prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons or loaded firearms to further its purpose of reducing homicides and violent confrontations on its urban streets. The law’s broad provisions, when viewed in conjunction with specific licensing requirements for the concealed carrying of firearms as well as statutory presumptions of possession, can make presenting a viable defense to a charge of Criminal Possession of a Weapon difficult without the assistance of top New York weapons possession attorneys.

The penalties for a conviction of Criminal Possession of a Weapon are serious. For instance, while possessing a gravity knife or switchblade – in violation of Section 265.01 of the New York Penal Law – is only a misdemeanor punishable up to a year in jail, individuals found to unlawfully possess a loaded firearm outside the home can face a mandatory minimum sentence of 3.5 years in prison for a classified violent felony. And for those alleged to have carried a firearm during the illegal sale of a controlled substance, recent amendments to the New York Penal Law allows prosecutors to upgrade an otherwise misdemeanor possession offense to a D felony, regardless of any carry license you may possess in the state. New York Penal Law § 265.02 (9), (10).

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Drill a hole in the top of the slab and put one of those computer wire & locks and attach it physically to dealers show case or something that can't move (pole, table leg, etc,....) The customer would be able to look at the card all day and the dealer can turn away. If the thief cuts the wire, a very loud alarm goes off. That would deter most thieves trying to steal the card.

This could actually be a great idea for TPGs to implement in their slabs. Cards worth X amount could come with a slab containing a hole and a theft censor already installed.

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Unless you are a cop or have a legit reason and paperwork to conceal then:

CRIMINAL POSSESSION OF A WEAPON AND FIREARMS OFFENSES IN NEW YORK
One of the most serious offenses in New York State – especially within the City of New York – is the Criminal Possession of a Weapon or Firearm under the New York Penal Law. Ranging from the possession of an illegal blade to loaded antique firearms, New York’s weapon laws cast a wide net in prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons or loaded firearms to further its purpose of reducing homicides and violent confrontations on its urban streets. The law’s broad provisions, when viewed in conjunction with specific licensing requirements for the concealed carrying of firearms as well as statutory presumptions of possession, can make presenting a viable defense to a charge of Criminal Possession of a Weapon difficult without the assistance of top New York weapons possession attorneys.

The penalties for a conviction of Criminal Possession of a Weapon are serious. For instance, while possessing a gravity knife or switchblade – in violation of Section 265.01 of the New York Penal Law – is only a misdemeanor punishable up to a year in jail, individuals found to unlawfully possess a loaded firearm outside the home can face a mandatory minimum sentence of 3.5 years in prison for a classified violent felony. And for those alleged to have carried a firearm during the illegal sale of a controlled substance, recent amendments to the New York Penal Law allows prosecutors to upgrade an otherwise misdemeanor possession offense to a D felony, regardless of any carry license you may possess in the state. New York Penal Law § 265.02 (9), (10).

Citing NY law on firearms/weapons is ridiculous for other shows, but I get citing it for the White Plains show.

With that being said - if I'm not mistaken and at least in Ohio - CCP/CCW (concealed carry permit/concealed carry weapon) does not authorize the use of a firearm in a situation regarding property. The weapon should only be used in a situation where life is threatened. Thinking back to my CCW class, that was gone over heavily. So I don't believe placing a sign at the booth that reads "I'm packing - steal at your own risk" is the answer.

[Johnny630]

HR 218 is a beautiful thing. Thanks President G W Bush.

[Gnep31]

Sorry for the suggestion...I had no idea NY state law was so oppressive. CCW and open carry are common place in so many places I assumed incorrectly.

Good luck with the event and I hope the cameras make a positive difference.

[packs]

Would you advocate discharging a weapon in a crowded room because of a suspected theft? If the answer is no, then I wouldn't bring a weapon into the room.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by packs

Would you advocate discharging a weapon in a crowded room because of a suspected theft? If the answer is no, then I wouldn't bring a weapon into the room.

I was unaware of any law anywhere that allowed you to shoot someone over a theft of property with no invasion of home or other threat of physical harm or death. But what do I know.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I was unaware of any law anywhere that allowed you to shoot someone over a theft of property with no invasion of home or other threat of physical harm or death. But what do I know.

I'm pretty sure that is the legal standard. But even before getting into the legalities of it, I was curious if the poster thought the practical application was a good idea. I'm not a gun guy but even I know the old adage that says you don't draw your gun unless you mean to use it. I was interested to hear if the poster would advise using a firearm to subdue a suspected thief in a crowded room full of other people.

[Lorewalker]

Yeah, I would say dealers packing heat to discourage theft at a card show is not the right direction. Someone might be unlucky enough to recover the stolen property or prevent the theft and wind up in jail.

Clearly hiring from The Vader & Prodeline Agency is an answer. Both women were able to "solve" the mystery surrounding the missing 51 Mantle. If you have not read it, here it is http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ghlight=stolen

[packs]

When would you find out whether or not the person suspected of a theft was the thief? Would it be before or after you pulled a firearm on them in a crowded room? What happens after you pull a firearm on a person suspected of a theft, but that person wasn't the thief? Does one simply shrug, smile and apologize?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by packs

When would you find out whether or not the person suspected of a theft was the thief? Would it be before or after you pulled a firearm on them in a crowded room? What happens after you pull a firearm on a person suspected of a theft, but that person wasn't the thief? Does one simply shrug, smile and apologize?

I assume this was directed to me but I was agreeing with you in my previous post. Even if not illegal--even the mere brandishing of a gun to prevent a theft, is probably an accident waiting to happen and could escalate into someone actually getting hurt. Not sure it is worth protecting one's valuables if the price to pay is possibly winding up in jail as a result of doing so. There is a price for freedom. Sure it is worth far more than most cards.

[packs]

I am in total agreement with you. My questions were hypothetical for someone who would support using the threat of a firearm to prevent theft at a card show.

[Gnep31]

Settle down...I said deter. As I stated, I was unaware of NY law. In my state we have the ability to deter and defend...IF deemed necessary.

Obviously having to use a firearm in any manner of self defense is the absolute last resort. I choose to at least have the option.

[Gnep31]

Originally Posted by packs

I am in total agreement with you. My questions were hypothetical for someone who would support using the threat of a firearm to prevent theft at a card show.

So would you not attend a card show that has armed security?

[packs]

I don't have a problem with security personnel. I don't think dealers should advertise that they have a gun to deter people from stealing their baseball cards.

[rdwyer]

At Frank and Sons in Industry, Ca, a person stole $6000 in gold coins from a dealer. The idiot shows up at the the scene of the crime a week later. The owner and security team of Frank and Sons confronts the thief but cannot detain him. Only the victim could do so. It's really messed up in Calif. Frank and Sons is mostly toys in a giant warehouse. There are some cards dealers but but only a few.

The thief was caught red-handed. Video, witnesses, etc.

Security tried to follow him to his car. But he just stood at the entrance until the cops showed up.

[chalupacollects]

NY and NJ have very restrictive concealed carry laws to make sure the criminals have the right to a fair chance at robbing you...

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

At Frank and Sons in Industry, Ca, a person stole $6000 in gold coins from a dealer. The idiot shows up at the the scene of the crime a week later. The owner and security team of Frank and Sons confronts the thief but cannot detain him. Only the victim could do so. It's really messed up in Calif. Frank and Sons is mostly toys in a giant warehouse. There are some cards dealers but but only a few.

The thief was caught red-handed. Video, witnesses, etc.

Security tried to follow him to his car. But he just stood at the entrance until the cops showed up.

I can't follow this story. So the cops caught him?

[rdwyer]

He didn't want Frank and Sons to know his license plate. So he refused to go to his car. Thus giving the Sheriff plenty of time to get there to arrest him. Like I said the dude was an idiot. He's out on $20,000 bail.

[lowpopper]

To all attendees and vendors at White Plains:

https://www.nyshows.org/security-services/

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by lowpopper

To all attendees and vendors at White Plains:

https://www.nyshows.org/security-services/

Those cameras are very nice for their grade!

[timzcardz]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Those cameras are very nice for their grade!

LOL

Destined to be a classic!

[Tony2311]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Unless you are a cop or have a legit reason and paperwork to conceal then:

CRIMINAL POSSESSION OF A WEAPON AND FIREARMS OFFENSES IN NEW YORK
One of the most serious offenses in New York State – especially within the City of New York – is the Criminal Possession of a Weapon or Firearm under the New York Penal Law. Ranging from the possession of an illegal blade to loaded antique firearms, New York’s weapon laws cast a wide net in prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons or loaded firearms to further its purpose of reducing homicides and violent confrontations on its urban streets. The law’s broad provisions, when viewed in conjunction with specific licensing requirements for the concealed carrying of firearms as well as statutory presumptions of possession, can make presenting a viable defense to a charge of Criminal Possession of a Weapon difficult without the assistance of top New York weapons possession attorneys.

The penalties for a conviction of Criminal Possession of a Weapon are serious. For instance, while possessing a gravity knife or switchblade – in violation of Section 265.01 of the New York Penal Law – is only a misdemeanor punishable up to a year in jail, individuals found to unlawfully possess a loaded firearm outside the home can face a mandatory minimum sentence of 3.5 years in prison for a classified violent felony. And for those alleged to have carried a firearm during the illegal sale of a controlled substance, recent amendments to the New York Penal Law allows prosecutors to upgrade an otherwise misdemeanor possession offense to a D felony, regardless of any carry license you may possess in the state. New York Penal Law § 265.02 (9), (10).

One of the great reasons to live in Texas and have our own CHL...