With all the auctions out there

[cardsnstuff]

Do you still shop on ebay

[Bliggity]

Yes - a majority of my purchases are still through eBay. With smaller incremental bidding (big difference!), eBay Bucks, Mr. Rebates/Ebates, and all the recent eBay coupons, I still find it to be much more cost-effective than auctions, at least most of the time. I may bid on dozens of auction items and win none, but I win about 50% of the eBay items I bid on.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I much prefer ebay, or direct, to competing against giddy buyers in auctions who seem endlessly willing to overpay.

[hcv123]

Sometimes in auctions. Sometimes on ebay.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I much prefer ebay, or direct, to competing against giddy buyers in auctions who seem endlessly willing to overpay.

+1

If I want it, I will happily pony up for a nice easy BIN. Keeping track of all the auctions has become exhausting. eBay stores my wantlist and emails me when something pops up. Plus generally things go for cheaper there. While not exclusive to REA, the amount of overpaying that went on in that auction was staggering, IMO, and presumably just to be able to say they won something in REA.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by conor912

+1

If I want it, I will happily pony up for a nice easy BIN. Keeping track of all the auctions has become exhausting. eBay stores my wantlist and emails me when something pops up. Plus generally things go for cheaper there. While not exclusive to REA, the amount of overpaying that went on in that auction was staggering, IMO, and presumably just to be able to say they won something in REA.

+1 back at ya. I just don't get it in many cases. And then, to act so amazed and grateful that it was sent out overnight.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I won a lot at REA for the opening bid and a lot of 10 graded OJ's for $1560 (with the juice) so I think if you're a careful shopper you can bargain hunt any source.

[joshuanip]

Where else than eBay can you see a babe Ruth rookie and a T206 Honus for sale at the same time!

[Section103]

I have a bit of an odd ball collecting list. A few of the rarer, higher end cards will probably only end up coming up at an auction house; but so many more of the cards can, will and have been found quicker -and- cheaper on ebay.

In my experience, most of the ebay headaches come about from being a seller. Its a pretty favorable experience for buyers (most of the time).

[Fballguy]

eBay all day every day.

No outrageous buyer's premium. I shouldn't have to pay for the privilege of paying for something. The auction house is selling for the seller. They are not providing any service for the buyer that isn't covered in the "shipping and handling" charge. The seller should pay the fee.

[Peter_Spaeth]

.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I much prefer ebay, or direct, to competing against giddy buyers in auctions who seem endlessly willing to overpay.

One big advantage that ebay has over many auction houses for buyers is the ability to snipe. That said, at least 90% of the time, I set a max ahead of time of what I am willing to pay for something and stick to it. The other 10% of the time would be for insanely rare items that I might go a bit higher if pushed. While some items do go for unusually high sums, many I think are quite reasonable- as noted by others on the boards as well. To each his own.

[Stampsfan]

I simply won't overpay, as I have more wants than cash. I bid what I am willing to pay (in many auctions and on eBay), and if it doesn't match, oh well... there are lots of other choices.

I am also a set collector, so picking up commons is much easier and more plentiful on eBay than at almost any auction house.

[Leon]

This is what is wrong with America > Just where do you think the money the auction is being paid is coming from? See bold below. Whether it is a sellers fee or a buyers premium any monies being paid to the auction house come from the consignors.

Originally Posted by Fballguy

eBay all day every day.

No outrageous buyer's premium. I shouldn't have to pay for the privilege of paying for something. The auction house is selling for the seller. They are not providing any service for the buyer that isn't covered in the "shipping and handling" charge. The seller should pay the fee.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

This is what is wrong with America > Just where do you think the money the auction is being paid is coming from? See bold below. Whether it is a sellers fee or a buyers premium any monies being paid to the auction house come from the consignors.

He just doesn't grasp this. We went through this before with him. What's frustrating is that after all that he just goes and posts the same thing again. Since he apparently doesn't understand auctions, it's just as well he prefers ebay.

[dabigyankeeman]

I live on Ebay. Most auction houses are chock full of really high condition cards that are too expensive for me, and on Ebay I can find various conditions of almost any card I am looking for. You get the advantage of Ebay Bucks, which really add up when you use the specials when you get 8 or 10 pct extra. Incredible selection on Ebay too.

[Rhotchkiss]

Considering eBay is there 24/7 and I check it several times per day, I wish eBay was more useful for me. But unfortunately, it is not. It either doesn’t have the cards I want and/or when it does, they are overpriced. I like rare and old and the cards I collect tend to be a bit pricey, and I feel Auction houses more often have these cards and I get better deals on auction-style opportunities than in a store (e-store or card show). I now know privately most of the eBay sellers who carry cards I like, and my eBay opportunities seem now to only be pwcc, probstein and other auctions held on eBay. For me, almost 100% of my cards come from auctions or private deals, and, as an aside, net54 has been a total/major asset to making connections and doing private deals.

eBay is a great thing, and I check it constantly. But for me, it yields very few acquisitions unless via an ebay auction

[x2drich2000]

For my personal collection, it is really hit or miss with both auction houses and Ebay, but I think that is just due to the limit scope of things I'm looking for. So far this year I think I've picked up probably a half dozen cards though auction houses, 2 or 3 through Ebay, 1 at a show, and can't remember seeing something I'm interested in on the BST.

From a reselling prospective, I still prefer looking for bargain at auction houses over Ebay because there is just so much on Ebay that it is overwhelming trying to find bargains without a narrower focus. On the other hand, I prefer selling on Ebay over auction houses simply cause I have more control on how I price things and can therefore reduce the risk of losing money on the sale.

DJ

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

This is what is wrong with America > Just where do you think the money the auction is being paid is coming from? See bold below. Whether it is a sellers fee or a buyers premium any monies being paid to the auction house come from the consignors.

You and Peter have been in the game too long. You've accepted it as normal and come up with some way to rationalize it. Just because something has always been done, doesn't mean it has to be done.

eBay is an auction house. eBay doesn't charge a buyer's premium. What's that you say? eBay doesn't have overhead? Their 12,000+ employees work for free?

Who doesn't get it Peter?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

You and Peter have been in the game too long. You've accepted it as normal and come up with some way to rationalize it. Just because something has always been done, doesn't mean it has to be done.

eBay is an auction house. eBay doesn't charge a buyer's premium. What's that you say? eBay doesn't have overhead? Their 12,000+ employees work for free?

Who doesn't get it Peter?

You don't get it, Rob, sorry to say.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

You and Peter have been in the game too long. You've accepted it as normal and come up with some way to rationalize it. Just because something has always been done, doesn't mean it has to be done.

eBay is an auction house. eBay doesn't charge a buyer's premium. What's that you say? eBay doesn't have overhead? Their 12,000+ employees work for free?

Who doesn't get it Peter?

You forget Ebay doesn't do most of the work. They are the discount broker in the auction world. They do not research items, list items, scan items, package items, solicit consignments, attend shows, promote the sale, etc. All of these tasks are done by the seller on Ebay, who ultimately still has to pay Ebay a fee for using their platform. Ebay is simply just a hosting company. This would be comparable to the AH using Simpleauctionsite or Createauction as the platform for their auction. Out of the buyer premium charged, the AH pays for whichever company that hosts the auction (unless, of course, they built and maintain the platform themselves). When you list on Ebay you are taking the role of the AH and just using their platform.

Regarding who pays the AH fee. Mathematically, it doesn't matter. Either the buyer pays it in the form of a buyer's premium or the consignor pays it in the form of a seller premium. The total amount the the buyer pays should never be different. The auction house needs to net $x per $y in sales in order to stay in business.

The big difference is the AH needs to solicit consignments. Without consignors the auction house will not survive. Psychologically, it is a lot easier to convince someone to consign something with zero fees then it is to tell them they will pay 10 or 20%, especially if another auction house is offering zero fees. Losing consignors to try to change a process everyone else follows does not seem like a smart business plan to me.

DJ

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ultimately, whether you call it a seller's fee or a buyer's premium is just semantics. Rob, I don't know why you don't grasp this.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ultimately, whether you call it a seller's fee or a buyer's premium is just semantics. Rob, I don't know why you don't grasp this.

I can’t speak for Rob, of course, but I think some folks find it more enjoyable to not grasp that concept and be angry about it.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You don't get it, Rob, sorry to say.

And I have to say between your cartoons and this response...you make a compelling argument.

For something. I guess..

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ultimately, whether you call it a seller's fee or a buyer's premium is just semantics. Rob, I don't know why you don't grasp this.

If it's just semantics...Why bother calling it a "buyer's premium"?

If it's just semantics...Why don't they get rid of it and just take 20% out of the high bid? In your world it's all the same right?

If the seller is paying everything, why do we need a buyer's premium at all?

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I honestly don't care where an item is for sale: ebay, auction house, or here on the BST, I know what I am willing to pay and that is that. If I know I am participating in an auction that charges a buyers premium, I factor that into my bid amount.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

If it's just semantics...Why bother calling it a "buyer's premium"?

If it's just semantics...Why don't they get rid of it and just take 20% out of the high bid? In your world it's all the same right?

If the seller is paying everything, why do we need a buyer's premium at all?

You don't see that the 20 percent fee with an auction house is less money the consignor receives? Most buyers will bid the same amount in either venue and just factor in the BP when making a maximum bid.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

You don't see that the 20 percent fee with an auction house is less money the consignor receives? Most buyers will bid the same amount in either venue and just factor in the BP when making a maximum bid.

I can't believe how many of you are fooled by this. Or maybe you have friends in the business...or maybe you are in the business.

If it was an even exchange each and every time...The high bid is the high bid regardless of BP or not....then answer my question. Why confuse the situation with a buyer's premium instead of just taking 20% off the high bid at the end?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yes Rob, the entire board is stupid and you alone get it because you're so savvy. Happy now?

Here's something to ponder though: buyer's premiums depress hammer prices. The high bid is NOT the high bid independent of the premium, it's a function of the premium. Think about it, and maybe you'll finally actually see what everyone here is talking about.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

And I have to say between your cartoons and this response...you make a compelling argument.

For something. I guess..

Everyone else here understands it.

[Fballguy]

Now this was a cogent reply. The problem with the first paragraph is it's based on the faulty notion that the high bid is the high bid regardless of BP or not. No doubt some take it into account when bidding. Just as undoubtedly others do not.

Can't really argue with a lot in the second paragraph except to say you're contradicting what Peter and others are saying that it's just semantics...unless you're implying the consignors are too dumb to know the difference.

And when talking about business plans...This sounds like a very antiquated one. With the internet, Amazon, eBay, etc...I think that once the dinosaurs of this hobby...the ones who accept the status quo just because it's all they've ever known...become extinct...this business plan will be a hard sell to the next generation.

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Regarding who pays the AH fee. Mathematically, it doesn't matter. Either the buyer pays it in the form of a buyer's premium or the consignor pays it in the form of a seller premium. The total amount the the buyer pays should never be different. The auction house needs to net $x per $y in sales in order to stay in business.

The big difference is the AH needs to solicit consignments. Without consignors the auction house will not survive. Psychologically, it is a lot easier to convince someone to consign something with zero fees then it is to tell them they will pay 10 or 20%, especially if another auction house is offering zero fees. Losing consignors to try to change a process everyone else follows does not seem like a smart business plan to me.

DJ

[Peter_Spaeth]

IMO, it is just semantics. As a bidder or as a consignor, I could not care less what you call the AH's cut. And as a bidder, I don't care at all about the percentage, except as an input to a calcuation.

If there truly were a large number of bidders out there who are so clueless that they don't take the premium into account when bidding, then I would have a different perspective, but I don't believe it.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

I can't believe how many of you are fooled by this. Or maybe you have friends in the business...or maybe you are in the business.

If it was an even exchange each and every time...The high bid is the high bid regardless of BP or not....then answer my question. Why confuse the situation with a buyer's premium instead of just taking 20% off the high bid at the end?

I am not even really sure what your argument is. Taking 20 percent off the top of the high bid at the end or calling it a "buyer's premium" and adding 20 percent is the same thing in terms of total money in the pocket of the consignor. What is there even to get "fooled" on? A card that sells for $1,000 total with a 20 percent BP only nets the consignor $800.

Not just in this situation, but in life as a whole, when your argument comes down to everyone else is wrong and I am the only person who understands what is going on, it is usually time for an honest reflection.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I am not even really sure what your argument is. Taking 20 percent off the top of the high bid at the end or calling it a "buyer's premium" and adding 20 percent is the same thing in terms of total money in the pocket of the consignor. What is there even to get "fooled" on? A card that sells for $1,000 total with a 20 percent BP only nets the consignor $800.

Not just in this situation, but in life as a whole, when your argument comes down to everyone else is wrong and I am the only person who understands what is going on, it is usually time for an honest reflection.

Not just in this situation, but in life as a whole, when a person repeatedly refuses to answer a question, it's because he doesn't like the answer he has to give.

If it's all the same in the end, why is there a buyer's premium?

Just to trick those dim consignors?

[doug.goodman]

Ok guys, we get it, you disagree.

At the end of the day, the final cost of an item I buy is what the item cost me, and I won't buy it if it's more than I want to spend.

Buyer's premiums, or what ever they are called, are part of that. As is shipping.

If an AH doesn't charge a premium, good for them, but my end cost will probably be similar to if they did, due to buyers possibly bidding more.

I buy stuff everywhere that I can get a deal that I am happy with, which doesn't necessarily mean that I got "a deal". At the risk of fballguy thinking that I'm on Peter's "side", it really is all semantics, and certainly not worth arguing about for as long you two have been on this thread.

The original question actually deserves only a simple yes or no answer.

My answer is "yes".

Hugs and kisses,
Doug

[Leon]

Well said and 70% of our respondents agree.

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Ok guys, we get it, you disagree.

At the end of the day, the final cost of an item I buy is what the item cost me, and I won't buy it if it's more than I want to spend.

Buyer's premiums, or what ever they are called, are part of that. As is shipping.

If an AH doesn't charge a premium, good for them, but my end cost will probably be similar to if they did, due to buyers possibly bidding more.

I buy stuff everywhere that I can get a deal that I am happy with, which doesn't necessarily mean that I got "a deal". At the risk of fballguy thinking that I'm on Peter's "side", it really is all semantics, and certainly not worth arguing about for as long you two have been on this thread.

The original question actually deserves only a simple yes or no answer.

My answer is "yes".

Hugs and kisses,
Doug

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

Well said and 70% of our respondents agree.

I knew it. The Angry Codger Coalition swore it would be 99%. Vindicated!

I'm joking. Tired of the topic. To each his own. I believe change is coming...for the first time since Ancient Rome. Enjoy giving your money away while you still can.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

I can't believe how many of you are fooled by this. Or maybe you have friends in the business...or maybe you are in the business.

If it was an even exchange each and every time...The high bid is the high bid regardless of BP or not....then answer my question. Why confuse the situation with a buyer's premium instead of just taking 20% off the high bid at the end?

Because a 20% buyers premium means I only pay a 16 2/3% consignment fee. And if my consignment is nice enough i can negotiate part of the BP as well. This is better than the AH taking 20% of the final price. And in a few rare instances that you keep bringing up some people actually forget about the bp all together, so I would get an extra 20% for my consignment.

The first priority for an auction house should be getting quality consignments. Collectors will bid from anyone who has the stuff they want. If you dont believe that read the candiman thread.

[PowderedH2O]

I'll answer the original question. I prefer ebay for reasons of convenience, and because I don't feel like taking extra time to figure out the final costs of things on auction houses. I bought some comics last year and set some really low bids through one of the major auction houses we discuss here often. The comics were worth about $35 each and I won the auctions for about $16 each. In my mind I had done really well. Then a buyer's premium was added, plus a shipping fee that was about twice what actual shipping cost, and before I knew it I had paid about the same as a BIN on ebay. So, I will just do ebay unless it is some unusual item that never pops up.

[Beastmode]

"I can't wait to stay up all night to watch an auction close multiple times while I have to put bids in manually because I can't snipe, while getting shilled by dozens of bidders I can't see at these Auction Houses" said no-one ever

[JollyElm]

100% of my bids are on ebay.

[BruceinGa]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

100% of my bids are on ebay.

The same for me!