OT: Would you return card because of better deal elsewhere?

[Buythatcard]

I am just wondering whether any one would do the following.

You just won a card graded PSA 2 on eBay for $11. You received the card and you are now the proud owner of this card.

Ten days later you come across the same card which is graded PSA 4. Not only that, its the same price that you paid for the PSA 2. Now, you buy this PSA 4 for $11.

Since the seller of the PSA 2 card has a 30 day return policy, you decide to return the first card 10 days after you won it.

You didn't break any eBay rules but would you do this?

I would definitely not do this. Once I win an item, that's it. The only reason that I would return a card, is if it's not the same card as described in the listing.

The above scenario just happened to me. In 14 years of selling, I have never had someone tell me that they are returning a card because they got a better deal elsewhere.

This is why I hate eBay's 30 day return policy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bad ethics to return an item that is precisely what you expected, and hopefully bad karma.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

no way in hell do I return it, and if it was for more than $11 I'd fight their return using their message as ammunition with ebay.

[cardinalcollector]

Do the return and block him. Unethical buyer.

[TheNightmanCometh]

I'd just sell the PSA 2 on eBay and try to recoup some of the cost.

[vintagetoppsguy]

The buyer is going to spend $4 to return an $11 card? Unreal.

Accept the return, block him and move on.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I am just wondering whether any one would do the following.

You just won a card graded PSA 2 on eBay for $11. You received the card and you are now the proud owner of this card.

Ten days later you come across the same card which is graded PSA 4. Not only that, its the same price that you paid for the PSA 2. Now, you buy this PSA 4 for $11.

Since the seller of the PSA 2 card has a 30 day return policy, you decide to return the first card 10 days after you won it.

You didn't break any eBay rules but would you do this?

I would definitely not do this. Once I win an item, that's it. The only reason that I would return a card, is if it's not the same card as described in the listing.

The above scenario just happened to me. In 14 years of selling, I have never had someone tell me that they are returning a card because they got a better deal elsewhere.

This is why I hate eBay's 30 day return policy.

If ebay and the buyer follow the policies of the 30 returns, the buyer (not the seller) is responsible for paying for the return s/h, as well as the seller is not obligated to refund the original s/h that was paid. Just the price of the item is refunded.....so the buyer is rightfully saddled with a cost also.

[Buythatcard]

I'm aware that the buyer will be picking up the tab for the S/H.

With this 30 day return policy, what stops a buyer from trying to sell the card and then returning it if they can't make a profit.

The buyer will definitely be blocked, that is a no brainer.

It's just another day in eBayland.

[egbeachley]

Another reason why sellers should not do free shipping.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I'm aware that the buyer will be picking up the tab for the S/H.

With this 30 day return policy, what stops a buyer from trying to sell the card and then returning it if they can't make a profit.

The buyer will definitely be blocked, that is a no brainer.

It's just another day in eBayland.

What stops a buyer (other than current PSA backlog lol) from buying a card, trying to bump it, and then returning if unsuccessful?

[hcv123]

Sounds like I might get roasted for it, but I have a different take. A return policy is a return policy. If someone has a 30 day open ended return policy then a buyer is perfectly within their rights to return the card for whatever reason. That in part is why I choose not to accept ebay returns as a policy (except for the rare item that I mistakenly describe incorrectly).

That said, I do agree that to pay the shipping to send back an $11 card is a bit ridiculous.

If you don't like your return policy - change it. If this is a first among many transactions, keep it in perspective and move on to doing business with all the other more reasonable collectors out there.

Howard

[cardsnstuff]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

If ebay and the buyer follow the policies of the 30 returns, the buyer (not the seller) is responsible for paying for the return s/h, as well as the seller is not obligated to refund the original s/h that was paid. Just the price of the item is refunded.....so the buyer is rightfully saddled with a cost also.

Also, you don't have to accept a return in a case of buyer's remorse. If he played his hand early and had messaged you; you could politely tell him to pound sand. But I would just take return at his expense and block and move on.

[Buythatcard]

I have my Seller account to automatically accept any return within 30 days. No questions asked.

The only reason that I accepted this was that eBay offered a discount on their outlandish fees. Any break a Seller can get, he should take.

I have had returns in the past and I never was bothered by it. But the reasons that this person gave got to me.

I know it's part of doing business. I will just move on without this buyer. There are enough good ones out there.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I'm aware that the buyer will be picking up the tab for the S/H.

With this 30 day return policy, what stops a buyer from trying to sell the card and then returning it if they can't make a profit.

The buyer will definitely be blocked, that is a no brainer.

It's just another day in eBayland.

The bold part happens a lot with the new shiny cards. The youngsters call it prospecting. They buy the new it players new shiny card and relist it on eBay for way more than they bought it. Then if it does not sell or the player tanks they return it. PayPal gives way longer than 30 days.

EDIT: To answer the question, BLEEP NO, I would feel like a slime ball for screwing over the seller. I know I would hate to have someone try to do that to me if I was the seller.

[Rookiemonster]

I own two 1969 Johnny bench’s because of this. I don’t mind cause it’s a cool card. The first was raw with a crease the second was psa graded with no crease. I paid a few dollars more for the one without the crease.

It sucks but hey it could be worst on EBay. It’s like the Wild West.

[commishbob]

I bought a nice 1970 Topps Alcindor about a few months ago. Before it arrived I found an almost-as-nice one I had put away in a box of basketball cards years ago and forgotten. (Yes, I'm an idiot, don't judge me). I didn't consider returning the purchased one but I did think about contacting the seller and asking if he'd trade me some other cards from that set for the Alcindor. I would have been willing to take a loss on the deal for sure. In the end I just kept the card and may sell it myself.

[mechanicalman]

Don’t people place a value on their time? $11 to go through the back and forth of a return and then mail it back? I don’t get it.

[Exhibitman]

eBay mandates returns, so you have to take returns but you can try to make it unpalatable as possible by not voluntarily offering free return shipping and charging a 20% restocking fee. The recent eBay rule changes will make it harder for you to force the buyer to pay return shipping. All the buyer has to do is allege that the item wasn't as described:

"The cost of return shipping for an item that is not as described is the seller's responsibility."

I suppose you could fight that with a graded card provided the buyer got the card shown, but it is sure to be a battle over a few bucks.

I had a recent experience with a pissy buyer that I thought of with this thread. I got this PM from a buyer:

"thanks for the crappy card, terrible condition, and the crappy holder to go with it..."

The card in question is a 1948 Leaf Joe Louis. A PSA 8 sells for $1500; the card I sold was a beater with big scans and went for under $30 in competitive bidding. My response:

"You mean the card listed with the scans that clearly show the condition that had a starting bid of 0.3% of the price of a PSA 8 and that cost you less than 2% of what a PSA 8 card sells for? You don't like it send it back for a refund. You have that option. But spare me the sarcasm. There are plenty of buyers who understand that even a vg-ex Louis is a $100+ card and who are happy to fill a low grade set with this one; I will sell it again to one of the multiple underbidders. Oh, and you are now blocked from further bidding in my auctions. Have a nice day and God Bless."

Of course the card wasn't returned...yet.

[jfkheat]

Originally Posted by hcv123

Sounds like I might get roasted for it, but I have a different take. A return policy is a return policy. If someone has a 30 day open ended return policy then a buyer is perfectly within their rights to return the card for whatever reason. That in part is why I choose not to accept ebay returns as a policy (except for the rare item that I mistakenly describe incorrectly).

That said, I do agree that to pay the shipping to send back an $11 card is a bit ridiculous.

If you don't like your return policy - change it. If this is a first among many transactions, keep it in perspective and move on to doing business with all the other more reasonable collectors out there.

Howard

It doesn't matter that you have a "no returns" policy with eBay. All a buyer has to do is file a not as described claim and you will have to accept the return.

[Buythatcard]

Well, this buyer actually did not say it was not as described. Here is what was said when I went to view the return details.

-------------------------------------------------------
Here's what the buyer said

Reason

Found a better price

Comments

Found a PSA 4 at the same price.
-------------------------------------------------------

[Jenx34]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

If ebay and the buyer follow the policies of the 30 returns, the buyer (not the seller) is responsible for paying for the return s/h, as well as the seller is not obligated to refund the original s/h that was paid. Just the price of the item is refunded.....so the buyer is rightfully saddled with a cost also.

How would that work if the seller offered Free Shipping? They have the cost of the shipping, but didn't show it separately in the sale. Does that make them out of luck on that part of it? It's one of the reasons I hate free shipping for cards.

[Jenx34]

Doing what your buyer did is bad form, but unfortunately it is part of doing business. I buy and sell and I check a seller much more thoroughly if they don't offer returns.

I try to keep myself from getting too worked up over idiots, but it is hard sometimes.

Maybe you just have to take the Wal Mart approach? Take returns, and don't think twice about it as long as it hasn't been damaged. There isn't much else you can do. Even a graded card could be returned "item not as described" if they complain there are scratches on the case that didn't show up in the scans. It doesn't take much.

It reminds me of when we tried to sell my wife's house before we were married. A "buyer" gave $500 in earnest money and signed a contract pending home inspection. The law states the buyer can back out if not satisfied with the home inspection. There is NO definition of "not satisfied" so anything legally enables the buyer to back out. I found out later, the "buyer" got scared because his fiance's family who didn't want him marrying their daughter, nitpicked a few things that could be fixed in 5 minutes. She had only been in the house two years and fixed it up. We also made sure everything was fixed from the old home inspection. It was stupid and made me realize the seller truly has very little protection on anything, so why fight it.

[Santo10Fan]

Did this one time with a mint condition 1888 Morgan dollar I got cold feet over. Luckily I bought in cash from a reputable (brick & mortar) dealer and had the receipt. I paid him $15 for the trouble, refund was over $1,700 cash.

With cards I do way more price research, so I'd be too embarrassed to return one for a better deal.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Jenx34

How would that work if the seller offered Free Shipping? They have the cost of the shipping, but didn't show it separately in the sale. Does that make them out of luck on that part of it? It's one of the reasons I hate free shipping for cards.

This is one of the best reason's not to offer free s/h on anything on ebay...if buyer's remorse is involved, a seller is not out the expense of the original s/h.

With free s/h, a seller is obviously out the money on their original s/h when buyer's remorse is involved



The worst case of return abuse I have heard of is a buyer, who is actually a large seller on ebay, who bought multiple items from one seller on a single order. This buyer then requested an NAD return on multiple items from the order.....one a day for four straight days. The seller was then obligated to pay separate return s/h on each card that was returned. Needless to say the seller received a refund back from ebay when it was pointed out to ebay what this "buyer" had done.

With this same buyer, I had a clear case of buyer's remorse (this buyer didn't read the description) and when I contacted ebay about changing the NAD claim to a buyer's remorse claim, the CSR hesitated for a moment and said "wow". I asked what that meant, he said w/o looking at my listing or hearing me out about changing the claim, I will change this to a buyer's remorse claim....obviously not the first time a seller has contacted ebay in regards to this buyer.

[pokerplyr80]

Talk to any Nordstrom employee and you will get some interesting stories about people abusing their return policy. There was also a video circulating a couple months ago of a woman returning a dead Christmas tree to Costco in January. Lots of scumbags out there.

To answer the original question no I would not, and I would not do business with anyone who would do something like that.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Talk to any Nordstrom employee and you will get some interesting stories about people abusing their return policy. There was also a video circulating a couple months ago of a woman returning a dead Christmas tree to Costco in January. Lots of scumbags out there.

To answer the original question no I would not, and I would not do business with anyone who would do something like that.

I remember hearing an urban legend in business school that Nordstrom once accepted a return on tires, even though they clearly don’t sell tires. I have no idea if that’s true, but if Jeff P. reads this, perhaps he can validate.

In other news, I have a buddy who habitually takes advantage of Costco’s return policy, and it’s never sat well with me.

[RedsFan1941]

“buy light, return heavy”

— Jake

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

... In other news, I have a buddy who habitually takes advantage of Costco’s return policy, and it’s never sat well with me.

I have a couple of ex-buddies that I learned have less scrupulous morals, and a "take what you can get" attitude. I found I was better for not being in their company any longer.

And a return for $11? Things must be tough in that household.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Talk to any Nordstrom employee and you will get some interesting stories about people abusing their return policy. There was also a video circulating a couple months ago of a woman returning a dead Christmas tree to Costco in January. Lots of scumbags out there.

Years ago, my wife worked the customer service desk at a K-Mart. Woman came in to do a return on some jewelry she didn't want. Hands my wife the box - and it's empty. My wife refuses the return and the woman flips out. Kept arguing she should get the return because she "didn't the jewelry". My wife eventually called a manager who had the same discussion. They did not end up doing the return. Unreal.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

An actress I worked with ran every scam you could think of. One of her favorites was to get new stuff free every year. She'd buy an item then after a year she'd buy as identical an item as she could, put the old one in the new packaging, and "return" it. Everything in her life was a scam yet she couldn't understand why no theatre would keep her around for multiple shows.

[Buythatcard]

Just to vent a little more regarding the buyer who decided to return a card because they found a better deal elsewhere.

It is in my policy to accept all returns so I will honor all returns.

I received the card in the mail yesterday. They buyer replaced the graded card sleeve with an ebay plastic bag. Card was then mailed back in regular brown envelope. He could have atleast sent it back in the original bubble envelope to offer it some protection.

I know that the card was not worth much but atleast attempt to mail it back the same way that it was received.

He has been blocked. Time to move on.

[toppcat]

I just resell the first card when I do this.

[bensie]

When this happens to me, I'll usually just keep both cards or resell the lower grade. I've only returned a card one time, and it's because it was a card PSA identified as a topps Tiffany that wasn't actually a Tiffany. Seller did not call this fact out and did not provide back scans. The card was cheap, but I returned it anyway on principle.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Years ago, my wife worked the customer service desk at a K-Mart. Woman came in to do a return on some jewelry she didn't want. Hands my wife the box - and it's empty. My wife refuses the return and the woman flips out. Kept arguing she should get the return because she "didn't the jewelry". My wife eventually called a manager who had the same discussion. They did not end up doing the return. Unreal.

When my sister worked for K mart, they would try to turn down some returns. But what would happen then was the person would call corporate, and corporate would call the store and threaten the managers job or review, and basically force the return. So they essentially gave up

Stuff returned
An obviously used still wet toilet brush.
Used toothbrushes.
A TV that had the entire works removed and replaced with works that were 30 years older. (That was actually pretty impressive)


A lot of contractors around here buy extra building materials and return what they don't use. Or buy tools, use them carefully and then return them. The guy I had doing some work for me (Extra good deal, I basically worked for him and eventually with him) Suggested that on a tile cutter. I told him that wasn't happening as I don't return stuff unless it's got an actual problem. And if he insisted, I'd do the job myself and he could go home.

[PowderedH2O]

Years ago I managed an upscale ladies shoe store. I cannot begin to count how many fancy evening gown shoes and handbags were brought in on Mondays for returns after women had used them for one big evening. We didn't accept worn shoes back, and they would swear the shoes were unborn even with clear major use. Scammers exist all over the place, sadly.