Bid Retractions

[Edwolf1963]

Nothing suspicious here - 26 bid retractions within 6 months and total feedback of less than 100. His bid retraction rate is over 30% of his feedback score?!

How does this happen? Do any of you have more than 1 bid retraction .. if that?? I can understand 100% bid activity with one seller if they are a favorite, done business before, they have what you're looking for on straight auction (vs. everyone else at museum pricing BIN), etc. - but can't wrap my head around this crap.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d..._None_ViewLink

[Leon]

The next highest bidder has 8 retractions. Legitimate ebayers don't have 8 bid retractions let alone 26. I guess they can't figure out how to bid?

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963

Nothing suspicious here - 26 bid retractions within 6 months and total feedback of less than 100. His bid retraction rate is over 30% of his feedback score?!

How does this happen? Do any of you have more than 1 bid retraction .. if that?? I can understand 100% bid activity with one seller if they are a favorite, done business before, they have what you're looking for on straight auction (vs. everyone else at museum pricing BIN), etc. - but can't wrap my head around this crap.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d..._None_ViewLink

[irv]

Originally Posted by Leon

The next highest bidder has 8 retractions. Legitimate ebayers don't have 8 bid retractions let alone 26. I guess they can't figure out how to bid?

According to their rules, and if they adhere to them, the bidder with 26 bid retractions should now be banned or stopped from bidding further, shouldn't he?

[Mikehealer]

I thought he was going to block these bidders?

[ullmandds]

you guys and your fake news!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by irv

According to their rules, and if they adhere to them, the bidder with 26 bid retractions should now be banned or stopped from bidding further, shouldn't he?

I just emailed Brent about it but I didn't email their special email for these. Yes., this bidder should be ousted and banned. And if it were me so would the second bidder with 8 retractions...

[irv]

Originally Posted by Leon

I just emailed Brent about it but I didn't email their special email for these. Yes., this bidder should be ousted and banned. And if it were me so would the second bidder with 8 retractions...

Good! I guess we'll now see if the rule is active and adhered too?

Thanks Leon.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by irv

Good! I guess we'll now see if the rule is active and adhered too?

Thanks Leon.

If it is adhered to it will only be for this one bidder and because Leon emailed them and posted he did on this forum.

Otherwise it will be business as usual.

[irv]

Originally Posted by bnorth

If it is adhered to it will only be for this one bidder and because Leon emailed them and posted he did on this forum.

Otherwise it will be business as usual.

I thought that too, but thought, just maybe, if Brent knows that collectors are watching a little more thoroughly now, he may also, to save face, have to do the same?

[PhillipAbbott79]

I recently emailed them about a bid retractor on a big card and their reply was essentially "yes, this is someone who has been warned before" and that "their retractions have gone down, so they are likely learning their lesson".

At that point of contact I believe they had 11 retractions, which I believe still would constitute them not being allowed to bid, so I am unsure at what point this person wasn't blocked, and likely doing absolutely nothing about it.

I see a number of people with very low feedback bidding on advanced collector type cards and I can't help but wonder if these are just the same people with new accounts.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by bnorth

If it is adhered to it will only be for this one bidder and because Leon emailed them and posted he did on this forum.

Otherwise it will be business as usual.

without question

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by irv

I thought that too, but thought, just maybe, if Brent knows that collectors are watching a little more thoroughly now, he may also, to save face, have to do the same?

I have been a member for close to 4 years now and this is the pattern I see. Someone calls them out, they respond with how they are working with eBay and have implemented new rules to solve the problem.

Then there are 3 different responses.
1) WOW it is great they are doing this and helping solve shilling and other bad things. I figure these are paid advertisements or delusional posters.

2) Same thing different day because if they are selling what I want I will bid no matter what. Hey at least they are honest.

3) People quit bidding in their auctions. Very few fit in this category because stuff trumps everything in this hobby.

IMHO this is how I see it.

[gregr2]

It is sad that the top 3 topics on the board are all dealing with PWCC and bidding in their auctions.Capture.JPG

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by gregr2

It is sad that the top 3 topics on the board are all dealing with PWCC and bidding in their auctions.Attachment 265804

I agree. It would be awesome if they would really clean up their act so this was not a subject on here.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I agree. It would be awesome if they would really clean up their act so this was not a subject on here.

im afraid this may never go away...and if it does so will the hobby!

[irv]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have been a member for close to 4 years now and this is the pattern I see. Someone calls them out, they respond with how they are working with eBay and have implemented new rules to solve the problem.

Then there are 3 different responses.
1) WOW it is great they are doing this and helping solve shilling and other bad things. I figure these are paid advertisements or delusional posters.

2) Same thing different day because if they are selling what I want I will bid no matter what. Hey at least they are honest.

3) People quit bidding in their auctions. Very few fit in this category because stuff trumps everything in this hobby.

IMHO this is how I see it.

You're likely right, Ben, but I was just thinking, due to the recent, unwanted attention PWCC has received lately, that maybe they'd actually adhere to their own rules and put forth an effort to abide by them.

I likely haven't been around here long enough to see that history likely repeats itself, but here's hoping it won't.

I'll be honest, I have purchased from PWCC in the past but with the recent posts, among other things, has really made me open my eyes and be a little more careful who I purchase from.
They had some nice slabbed 52's last night that sold on the cheap, imo, that I would have liked, but I just couldn't bring myself to it.

[jfkheat]

The only way bid retraction will ever stop is if eBay removes it as an option. What eBay needs to do is make it so that the bidder has to contact the seller if they want a bid cancelled.
James

[Bpm0014]

I've been on ebay for like 15 years and have zero (0) bid retractions. I couldn't fathom 8 or 26

[Thromdog]

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963

How does this happen? Do any of you have more than 1 bid retraction .. if that??

Been wanting to answer this one and saw an opportunity with Ed's question.

Yes, I am one of them. I have no bid retractions in the last 30 days but have 10 in the last 6 months. I did receive a warning from PWCC but shrugged it off since I hadn't retracted any bids with PWCC. I understand the warning and have been better.

2 reasons I have retracted bids:
1. Bid on 4 or 5 cards that I found out were reprints after bidding (very good fakes I might add)....this was after contacting seller
2. Simply wrote in the wrong amount such as $245 instead of $24.50

I get the concerns on bid retractions especially when they are associated to a single seller, but you have to have a little more basis for banning a buyer.

I currently bid on most t206 auctions that have low starting prices. I bid on virtually all of Brent's non-HOF listings which ended on Sunday, for example. I won 3 total auctions and was very happy about it.

Unfortunately bidding through your phone doesn't do a confirmation before placing the bid. Anyone who texts frequently knows that you go through the motions and continue on.....fast. Unfortunately I don't press the decimal sometimes and then I have to retract a bid. For those who haven't retracted bids, I will add that this is a valid reason for a bid retraction by eBay rules if outside of 12 hours of auction end. Plus if you still want to bid on the auction, your minimum bid has to be equal to your retracted bid.......so basically you are out of the auction.

There's more to it than a bid retraction.

[Leon]

Nothing personal but if i sold on ebay I would probably block you. I call it too many issues for me to deal with.

Originally Posted by Thromdog

Been wanting to answer this one and saw an opportunity with Ed's question.

Yes, I am one of them. I have no bid retractions in the last 30 days but have 10 in the last 6 months. I did receive a warning from PWCC but shrugged it off since I hadn't retracted any bids with PWCC. I understand the warning and have been better.

2 reasons I have retracted bids:
1. Bid on 4 or 5 cards that I found out were reprints after bidding (very good fakes I might add)....this was after contacting seller
2. Simply wrote in the wrong amount such as $245 instead of $24.50

I get the concerns on bid retractions especially when they are associated to a single seller, but you have to have a little more basis for banning a buyer.

I currently bid on most t206 auctions that have low starting prices. I bid on virtually all of Brent's non-HOF listings which ended on Sunday, for example. I won 3 total auctions and was very happy about it.

Unfortunately bidding through your phone doesn't do a confirmation before placing the bid. Anyone who texts frequently knows that you go through the motions and continue on.....fast. Unfortunately I don't press the decimal sometimes and then I have to retract a bid. For those who haven't retracted bids, I will add that this is a valid reason for a bid retraction by eBay rules if outside of 12 hours of auction end. Plus if you still want to bid on the auction, your minimum bid has to be equal to your retracted bid.......so basically you are out of the auction.

There's more to it than a bid retraction.

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by Thromdog

Anyone who texts frequently knows that you go through the motions and continue on.....fast. Unfortunately I don't press the decimal sometimes and then I have to retract a bid. For those who haven't retracted bids, I will add that this is a valid reason for a bid retraction by eBay rules if outside of 12 hours of auction end. Plus if you still want to bid on the auction, your minimum bid has to be equal to your retracted bid.......so basically you are out of the auction.

Interesting - I can see that happening (above). And for the record, my post wasn't directed at PWCC specifically as much as anyone who may encounter bidding / retracting "shenanigans" I don't know what PWCC does specifically here beyond warnings? Whether or not there is any teeth to their claims to address shilling and/or other games which bring legitimacy into question? As an occasional seller, I would probably ban someone if there was more than one retraction and/or non-paying bid - unless they got with me on a valid reason (as noted above) for why?

The example first noted with 26 retractions within 6 months on a bidder with 83 total feedbacks to me still goes beyond the extreme.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by jfkheat

The only way bid retraction will ever stop is if eBay removes it as an option. What eBay needs to do is make it so that the bidder has to contact the seller if they want a bid cancelled.
James

This.

I believe many bidders now think this is a valid strategy to drive other bidders away.......................or they think nothing of the etiquette of the matter, or how much it's frowned upon my many bidders and sellers.

PWCC can't just ban everybody who has retractions, or they'd have no bidders left.

Lots of big money guys are obviously using it as what they feel, is an accepted technique and strategy.

There's no repercussions, and Ebay is complicit in this line of thinking. It's easily solved, but Ebay's not interested in solving it.

[BruceinGa]

[QUOTE=Thromdog;1640998]2. Simply wrote in the wrong amount such as $245 instead of $24.50


I've been on eBay for a long, long time. I've had one retraction and the reason was I omitted the decimal point.

[botn]

I have been on ebay since 1997 and never retracted a bid, never asked a seller to cancel a bid nor have I asked to pull a bid I made in all the thousands of items I bid on each year on sites outside of eBay.

The bigger question is why are PWCC auctions constantly associated with so much fraud and yet they get more consignments each month than the previous? If they want to be the hobby leader in sales, great, but then step up and really implement policies that they will adhere to. PWCC is not doing all they can to keep their auctions clean. The reason why is there is no incentive to.

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by Thromdog

Been wanting to answer this one and saw an opportunity with Ed's question.

Unfortunately bidding through your phone doesn't do a confirmation before placing the bid. Anyone who texts frequently knows that you go through the motions and continue on.....fast. Unfortunately I don't press the decimal sometimes and then I have to retract a bid. For those who haven't retracted bids, I will add that this is a valid reason for a bid retraction by eBay rules if outside of 12 hours of auction end. Plus if you still want to bid on the auction, your minimum bid has to be equal to your retracted bid.......so basically you are out of the auction.

There's more to it than a bid retraction.

Sorry, but that is BS. I use my phone, with the ebay app, quite a lot. When you type in the amount of your bid, there is a fat blue bar across the screen that says "confirm bid". You cannot place your bid unless you confirm it.

[oldjudge]

If this is what's happening, I can't believe you guys actually deal with these people. You get what you deserve.

[jefferyepayne]

eBay doesn't care. PWCC doesn't care. Sellers don't care.

Unfortunately its up to buyers to put their foot down and take a stand. STOP bidding on any auction where a bidder has >5 retractions. STOP bidding on any auction for a high end item where a bidder has <10 feedbacks.

That's what I've started doing. I am suspicious of anyone with numerous retractions and no history on ebay when it comes to high end cards. The only way consignments slow down / stop is if bidders stop bidding ...

jeff

[Yoda]

Any way you slice it, PWCC has become, thanks to Ebay, a major auction house in a short period of time and a money machine.

[Thromdog]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Sorry, but that is BS. I use my phone, with the ebay app, quite a lot. When you type in the amount of your bid, there is a fat blue bar across the screen that says "confirm bid". You cannot place your bid unless you confirm it.

Sorry but disagree.

It's all in 1 motion and not really a confirmation, so it's prone to error. You can literally place a bid and submit in a half a second.

When you bid on a desktop you enter an amount and click enter. Then a confirmation message is displayed and you confirm. I also checked through my phone by going to a browser and bidding through eBay's mobile site. Same thing, 2 screens. You enter your bid and click Place Bid.....which is the same as the confirm bid bar you are seeing on the mobile app. Then it takes you to the next screen which shows your bid and you click confirm.....which is not in the app.

Not the same user experience.

Even with auction houses it's the same thing, you enter your amount and click return. Then a true confirmation page appears and you click submit. The extra step prevents user error and it's a pretty common design retailers use.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Thromdog

Been wanting to answer this one and saw an opportunity with Ed's question.

Yes, I am one of them. I have no bid retractions in the last 30 days but have 10 in the last 6 months. I did receive a warning from PWCC but shrugged it off since I hadn't retracted any bids with PWCC. I understand the warning and have been better.

2 reasons I have retracted bids:
1. Bid on 4 or 5 cards that I found out were reprints after bidding (very good fakes I might add)....this was after contacting seller
2. Simply wrote in the wrong amount such as $245 instead of $24.50

I get the concerns on bid retractions especially when they are associated to a single seller, but you have to have a little more basis for banning a buyer.

I currently bid on most t206 auctions that have low starting prices. I bid on virtually all of Brent's non-HOF listings which ended on Sunday, for example. I won 3 total auctions and was very happy about it.

Unfortunately bidding through your phone doesn't do a confirmation before placing the bid. Anyone who texts frequently knows that you go through the motions and continue on.....fast. Unfortunately I don't press the decimal sometimes and then I have to retract a bid. For those who haven't retracted bids, I will add that this is a valid reason for a bid retraction by eBay rules if outside of 12 hours of auction end. Plus if you still want to bid on the auction, your minimum bid has to be equal to your retracted bid.......so basically you are out of the auction.

There's more to it than a bid retraction.

I think you just confirmed that folks with bid retractions need to be eliminated from e-bay. Sooner the better. If PWCC allows you to bid, that's bull shit.

[Thromdog]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

I think you just confirmed that folks with bid retractions need to be eliminated from e-bay. Sooner the better. If PWCC allows you to bid, that's bull shit.

Completely disagree.

[ALR-bishop]

Hope you are not that careless in your other endeavors, whether you beg to differ or not

[Buythatcard]

Since eBay doesn't do enough to get rid of buyers with multiple retractions, it's up to the sellers to take action.
If a buyer retracts a bid at one of my auctions and does not rebid, I block them immediately. If the retraction happens on the last day of the auction, I will call eBay and give them the buyer's userid. I was told to call in every time some one retracts without rebidding.

So, if other sellers would do the same thing, eventually we would get rid of some of these buyers.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Since eBay doesn't do enough to get rid of buyers with multiple retractions, it's up to the sellers to take action.
If a buyer retracts a bid at one of my auctions and does not rebid, I block them immediately. If the retraction happens on the last day of the auction, I will call eBay and give them the buyer's userid. I was told to call in every time some one retracts without rebidding.

So, if other sellers would do the same thing, eventually we would get rid of some of these buyers.

This is a good point. I think sellers who do this should be much more aggressive about using it as a marketing point to buyers. Let us know you operate like this so we know your auctions are ones we can bid on with confidence.

jeff

[SAllen2556]

I have recently begun to wonder if these 99 cent auctions are actually a good idea. Starting a 3k card at 99 cents is pretty silly if you think about it, and it just seems to encourage bad behavior - from buyers, sellers, and eBay.

[cardsnstuff]

I believe allows you to auto block people with Bid retractions over 4 within 6 months; I need to check what I have set up to be sure. But why wouldn't people just do that?

[D.P.Johnson]

I've never had a bid retraction, and would never submit a bid without carefully reviewing the amount entered. To have 10 in 6 months (or whatever) is carelessness. The amount of time, effort, and embarrassment it takes to retract a bid is surely worth taking an extra moment to review the original amount entered...

[bn2cardz]

In Ebay's site preference's there are seller preferences that will automatically block buyers based off your preferences. I am surprised that number of bid retractions isn't one of the options.

Here are the current options:

Buyers without a PayPal account
Block buyers who don't have a PayPal account. (Note: This block only applies to future listings and can be disabled per item on the Sell Your Item form.)
This requirement can help you avoid Unpaid Items, as PayPal account holders have up to an 80% lower Unpaid Item rate.


Buyers with Unpaid Item strikes
Block bidders and buyers who have received (OPTION OF 2-5) Unpaid Item strike(s) within (OPTIONS OF 1, 6, OR 12) month(s)
This requirement can help you avoid bidders and buyers with a history of not paying for the items they have agreed to purchase.


Buyers in locations to which I don't ship
Block buyers whose primary shipping address is in a location I don't ship to.
This requirement can help you avoid buyers who agree to purchase your items without realizing you don't ship to their location.


Buyers with policy violation reports
Block buyers who have (OPTION OF 4-7) Policy violation report(s) within (OPTION OF 1 OR 6) month(s)
This requirement can help you block buyers who have been reported to have violated eBay policies.


Buyers with a negative feedback score
Block buyers who have a feedback score of (OPTION OF -1 TO -3) or lower
This requirement can help you avoid buyers who have received more negative than positive feedback from other eBay members bidding on your item.


Buyers who may bid on several of my items and not pay for them
Block buyers who are currently winning or have bought (oPTION OF 1-10,25,50,75, OR 100) of my items in the last 10 days.
Only apply this block to buyers who have a feedback score of (OPTION OF 0-5) or lower.
Consider selecting this requirement if you are selling expensive items and don't want to sell over a certain number to any single buyer. Learn more about how this requirement works.


Apply above settings to active and future listings.
Existing bids will not be affected.
Turbo Lister will pick up these settings after you sync each item with eBay. Third-party listing tools will pick up these settings after you synchronize the tools with eBay.

Don't allow blocked buyers to contact me. (Buyer won't see the "Contact Seller" button on your Q&A page.) Note: Buyers can still contact you about existing transactions, unless you add them to your blocked list.

Even with these options I have it set very tight and have seen that in recent days it has blocked 2 bidders

Mar-12-17 * 525 ( 99.8%) Mar-25-03 322450530298 Too many Unpaid Item strikes
Mar-12-17 * 525 ( 99.8%) Mar-25-03 322450530298 Too many Unpaid Item strikes
Mar-13-17 * 2070 ( 100%) Oct-20-13 322450623947 Too many Unpaid Item strikes
Mar-13-17 * 2070 ( 100%) Oct-20-13 322450623947 Too many Unpaid Item strikes

I have my settings set to blocking anyone with 2 unpaid strikes in 12 months. My question is why are buyers with 2 unpaid strikes even still allowed on ebay. This falls into the same issue as bid retractions in my mind.

[bn2cardz]

I had never attempted until now to see bidder bid retractions in my own auctions (since I knew I wasn't consigning and I am not shilling my own auctions I never thought to). Just now I thought I would look at my current auctions and realized it wasn't as easy. Since I can see the user name of the high bidder it takes me to that bidder's account but doesn't show me their bidding history. I only see this information if I see the users asterisk version which I can only see if I log out and look at the auctions as a non seller. Does anyone see a quicker way for a logged in user to see this information?

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

In Ebay's site preference's there are seller preferences that will automatically block buyers based off your preferences. I am surprised that number of bid retractions isn't one of the options.

Here are the current options:Even with these options I have it set very tight and have seen that in recent days it has blocked 2 bidders
I have my settings set to blocking anyone with 2 unpaid strikes in 12 months. My question is why are buyers with 2 unpaid strikes even still allowed on ebay. This falls into the same issue as bid retractions in my mind.

This is a good practice to follow. Again the seller can take some time out to use these setting to rid of delinquent buyers.
One of the options that baffles me is to block Buyers with negative feedback. How does a Buyer get a negative feedback? That went away a long time ago.
I think a buyer should be blocked with 1 unpaid strike. There is no reason that I can think of where you should not pay for an item that you won.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

This is a good practice to follow. Again the seller can take some time out to use these setting to rid of delinquent buyers.
One of the options that baffles me is to block Buyers with negative feedback. How does a Buyer get a negative feedback? That went away a long time ago.
I think a buyer should be blocked with 1 unpaid strike. There is no reason that I can think of where you should not pay for an item that you won.

I would like to block the 1 unpaid strike, but 2 is the least amount you can block.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Does it actually require 2 separate clicks? If so, it is 2 motions. Is your complaint then just that you do not have a new screen to do those 2 motions on?

I don't make mistakes like this but I will be the first to tell you that my cracked phone screen does weird things from time to time.

No offense meant here, but where do you live. I am moving there.

I will also say:

• Nothing ever gets done on the first shot
• No one ever follows up with you about anything
• Nobody ever does what they say they are going to
• I always get someone with pine tar thick accents
• Whatever needs to be done by a specific date, never is
• If something needs to be perfect in quality, it never is

Any time solving a problem requires any off the beaten path type of action on my part, involves anyone other than myself or worse an off the beaten path action needed to be done by someone else, I have this immediate acceptance to the fact it will be a nightmare that consumes 1 to dozens of hours of my life.

I can't even get the furniture people to come out within a 9 week time frame to fix my new furniture.

A bid retraction, just 1 of them, would be a logistical nightmare in my life. 5 phone calls, 8 emails, 3 more follow ups, a correction or two. I can't imagine having to try to attempt a retraction, let alone do many. It would probably be cheaper and easier for me to get a whole new phone for 300 to 600 dollars than to deal with correcting it.

Again, no offense meant, but seriously, is your residence earthly?