Cy Young/Irv Young

[bwbc917]

The newest Heritage auction has a number of E98 Cy Young from the Black Swamp find. Some are labeled Cy and Irv, another just CY. In the same auction there is an E97 Briggs labeled Cy Young. To my eye it is the same picture as the E98 yet I have never seen it labeled with the dual names.

Can some of the experts explain why some carry a dual name and others don't?? Shouldn't this effect the price of the card??

[Peter_Spaeth]

They are all really Irv Young, it's an error. Probably some labels just reflect that and others don't.

[bwbc917]

That's what I thought. Isn't it misleading to keep selling and grading them as Cy Young?? Personally I will not add the card to my collection since it's not Cy. Thoughts from the membership???

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bwbc917

That's what I thought. Isn't it misleading to keep selling and grading them as Cy Young?? Personally I will not add the card to my collection since it's not Cy. Thoughts from the membership???

It's Cy Young's card, just with the wrong picture.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's Cy Young's card, just with the wrong picture.

If I am buying it is Irv, if I am selling it is Cy. If anyone wants a type card of Cy Young I might recommend a different one.

[swarmee]

Yeah, they never played for any of the same teams in the same year, right? So you can tell who it was intended to be by the team listed.

[frankbmd]

Irv "Sigh" Young.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Yeah, they never played for any of the same teams in the same year, right? So you can tell who it was intended to be by the team listed.

No need in the case of the E98 it says "Cy" right on the card.

Or the E97.
http://www.goodwinandco.com/1909-e97...t-lot2747.aspx

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No need in the case of the E98 it says "Cy" right on the card.

Or the E97.
http://www.goodwinandco.com/1909-e97...t-lot2747.aspx

That's actually not true because Irv Young was called Cy when he played. Doing research on the Pirates, I've noticed numerous instances where he is called Cy, and at the same time, the Cy Young we all know and love is referred to as Old Cy Young.

The E97 Black & White pictures Irv Young and has the team listed as Boston (the team he was on) and I believe that they intended the card to be for Irv Young. When they switched it to Cleveland for the color version, that's where they made the mistake.

Back in the day, they had no problem giving guys the same nickname. Best example I know is that there were five players with the last name Freeman who had the nickname Buck. There was also a pitcher named Harley Young back in 1908 and his nickname was Cy the third, which I've also seen in print as Young Cy Young. That's someone who won zero MLB games.

[irv]

C'mon guys, show Irv some love!

[T206Collector]

Happy to show my Irv!

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by z28jd

That's actually not true because Irv Young was called Cy when he played. Doing research on the Pirates, I've noticed numerous instances where he is called Cy, and at the same time, the Cy Young we all know and love is referred to as Old Cy Young.

The E97 Black & White pictures Irv Young and has the team listed as Boston (the team he was on) and I believe that they intended the card to be for Irv Young. When they switched it to Cleveland for the color version, that's where they made the mistake.

Back in the day, they had no problem giving guys the same nickname. Best example I know is that there were five players with the last name Freeman who had the nickname Buck. There was also a pitcher named Harley Young back in 1908 and his nickname was Cy the third, which I've also seen in print as Young Cy Young. That's someone who won zero MLB games.

John, very interesting thanks for posting that information.

Patrick

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by z28jd

That's actually not true because Irv Young was called Cy when he played. Doing research on the Pirates, I've noticed numerous instances where he is called Cy, and at the same time, the Cy Young we all know and love is referred to as Old Cy Young.

The E97 Black & White pictures Irv Young and has the team listed as Boston (the team he was on) and I believe that they intended the card to be for Irv Young. When they switched it to Cleveland for the color version, that's where they made the mistake.

Back in the day, they had no problem giving guys the same nickname. Best example I know is that there were five players with the last name Freeman who had the nickname Buck. There was also a pitcher named Harley Young back in 1908 and his nickname was Cy the third, which I've also seen in print as Young Cy Young. That's someone who won zero MLB games.

Fascinating. Indeed Baseball Reference lists Young Cy and Cy the Second as nicknames for Irv. So I guess the upshot of all this is that none of these should be considered cards of Cy Young.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Irv "Sigh" Young.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Fascinating. Indeed Baseball Reference lists Young Cy and Cy the Second as nicknames for Irv. So I guess the upshot of all this is that none of these should be considered cards of Cy Young.

Peter,

You never listen to me. ....... sigh!

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So I guess the upshot of all this is that none of these should be considered cards of Cy Young.

None or all?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

None or all?

My original assumption and I think that of the hobby as a whole was that they were error cards, with the intent to depict the HOF Cy Young but with the wrong pic. But the information that Irv Young was also called Cy seems to leave open the possibility that they were not error cards at all, but that the intent was in fact to depict Irv Young. I have not studied the team designations for each of the cards in question admittedly.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My original assumption and I think that of the hobby as a whole was that they were error cards, with the intent to depict the HOF Cy Young but with the wrong pic. But the information that Irv Young was also called Cy seems to leave open the possibility that they were not error cards at all, but that the intent was in fact to depict Irv Young. I have not studied the team designations for each of the cards in question admittedly.

My guess is that when they issued the e97 back and white, the intention was to be Irv Young, since he was on Boston at the time. The team is right (they had the NL designation on the card) and the name is right, so it has to be him. When they switched the team name to Cleveland for the color versions, it was probably just someone noticing the original Cy Young on Cleveland at the time, while Irv Young was in the minors (1909).

I can't be sure of the intentions with the 1910 E98 card, but I assume those to be Cy Young cards with the wrong picture. If you look at the 1911 E94 cards, they even add in the "old" to his name and change the picture.

Personally, I wouldn't pay extra for the E97/E98 over common prices because the picture is Irv Young and at least one of the cards has the right team for Irv listed. Maybe you add a little to the price as a conversation piece, but I wouldn't pay close to Cy Young prices for them.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's Cy Young's card, just with the wrong picture.

In my view, it's Irv's card, with the wrong caption

Steve