O/T Life or Death, One Game, My Starting 9

[Lgarza99]

I was thinking who I would start if my life depended on one game. Some of my picks are obvious, but others are based on one game heroics we have seen or read about through the years. Tough to pick if this was truly a life or death game. I would be twisting with each pitch so all I could do would be to trust the following team:

In batting order and position. Outfield set like an all-start team.

1. Ty Cobb, lf, played like his life depended on it. Speed on the bases at once. Intimidation, and maybe takes out one of the key opponents.

2. Derek Jeter, ss, moves runners over, just wins, and anyone who would dive into the stands for one out is on my team, it could be the last out?

3. Babe Ruth, rf, gotta have THE man. Maybe he has a three home run game? Good for at least one shot in the clutch. I gotta keep him from partying the night before though!

4. Lou Gehrig, 1b, he obviously showed up every day to excel. And he did! I know I could count on him.

5. Willie Mays, cf, that over the head catch could be a life saver, not just a game saver. Power, steals, he could do it all.

6. Mike Schmidt, 3b, great defender and power. Tough pick leaving out George Brett. I couldn't go wrong either way.

7. Johnny Bench, threw out 43% of attempted steals, great power, best defensive catcher.

8. Eddie Collins, 2b, gets on base, speed, helps turn the line up over. A winner.

9. Bob Gibson, based on one game, he has to be my starter. Just the total will and desire to win. He would leave it ALL on the line like his life depended on it.

RP, Mariano Rivera, the greatest closer of all time.

Manager, John McGraw, he would pull no punches. He would probably fight me to start Christy Mathewson though.

All that WAR stuff may say different based on career totals, but if this was just for one game, I would take these guys......and live! Lol.

[EvilKing00]

1-Cobb cf
2- Wagner ss
3- ruth - rf
4- williams- lf
5- gherig - 1b
6- chipper jones - 3b
7- bench - c
8- collins - 2b

Bonds dh if we need one hitting 5th moving the rest down

Pedro martinez sp
Rivera cl

[Eric72]

1. Oscar Charleston, CF
2. Honus Wagner, SS
3. Rogers Hornsby, 2B
4. Babe Ruth, RF
5. Lou Gehrig, 1B
6. Barry Bonds, LF (pre-steroids...for the upside, defensively)
7. Josh Gibson, C
8. Mike Schmidt, 3B
9. Walter Johnson, SP

DH, if applicable - Ted Williams

[SAllen2556]

One game - gotta win:

Rose 2b
Brett 3b
Mantle cf
Gehrig 1b
Reggie Jackson rf
Bench c
Kirk Gibson lf
Ripken ss
Koufax p

[Lgarza99]

Originally Posted by Eric72

1. Oscar Charleston, CF
2. Honus Wagner, SS
3. Rogers Hornsby, 2B
4. Babe Ruth, RF
5. Lou Gehrig, 1B
6. Barry Bonds, LF (pre-steroids...for the upside, defensively)
7. Josh Gibson, C
8. Mike Schmidt, 3B
9. Walter Johnson, SP

DH, if applicable - Ted Williams

Josh Gibson, interesting. I wish I knew more about him.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Lgarza99

Josh Gibson, interesting. I wish I knew more about him.

Sr. Garza,

He is in the MLB Hall of Fame. You should be able to find highlights of his career on their website...along with others.

Best regards,

Eric

[cincyredlegs]

Kinda hard to argue with the guys on the list but if I HAVE to HAVE one guy on my team it would have to be Pete Rose. If my life depended on it, I want him on my side.

Mark

[wolf441]

2B - Morgan
SS - Wagner
CF- Mays
LF - Bonds (definitely while on steroids. Hey, my life depends on it )
DH - Ruth (okay, I'm cheating a bit here)
1B - Gehrig
RF - Clemente
3B - Schmidt
C - Bench


SP - Sandy Koufax (in his prime)
Closer - Rivera

[MVSNYC]

1. Ty Cobb, LF
2. Derek Jeter, SS
3. Rogers Hornsby, 2B
4. Babe Ruth, RF
5. Lou Gehrig, 1B
6. Willie Mays, CF (sorry Mick)
7. Mike Schmidt, 3B
8. Yogi Berra, C
9. Christy Mathewson, SP

Mariano Rivera, RP
Joe Torre, Manager

[Kenny Cole]

For one game:

2B Jackie Robinson -- Steals home in the WS and generally makes everyone nervous

SS Wagner -- Great in every respect.

RF Ruth -- enough said.

CF Mantle. I love Mays and Charleston, but Mantle was so dominant in the post-season that I have to pick him

1B Gehrig.

LF Bonds. Hands down. Far and away the greatest hitter I've ever seen in person, and I've seen many of them. IBB with the bases loaded? Seriously? No one ever wanted to pitch to him

3B Schmidt

C Probably go with Gibson over Bench by just a touch.

P Koufax. ERA in the world series he pitched in was miniscule.

[Northviewcats]

CF Ty Cobb
2B Martin Dihigo
RF Babe Ruth
1B Lou Gehrig
LF Joe Jackson
3B Pete Rose
C Johnny Bench
SS Derek Jeter

SP Walter Johnson

[Runscott]

Intriguing question

2b - Joe Morgan
ss - Honus Wagner
cf - Joe DiMaggio
1b - Lance Berkman
rf - Carlos Beltran
dh - Kirk Gibson
c - Yadier Molina
lf - Ted Williams
3b - Brooks Robinson
sp - Curt Schilling
rp - Dennis Eckersley

[VoodooChild]

1. Pete Rose 2B
2. Tony Gwynn RF
3. Ken Griffey Jr. CF
4. Mike Schmidt 3B
5. Frank Thomas 1B
6. Johnny Bench C
7. Bo Jackson LF
8. Ozzie Smith SS
9. Greg Maddux SP

[z28jd]

If it's life or death, I don't know how you could pass on Bonds for your team, especially during his peak years. I'd also go for the best player for every position regardless if what I thought of their desire. Sure Rose or Jeter are great players, but you have to leave off all-time greats that dwarf them to put them on the team and I wouldn't risk that for one game with so much on the line.

Bench-Gehrig-Hornsby-Wagner-Schmidt
Bonds-Mays-Ruth
Ted Williams DH
Mathewson starting, Walter Johnson relief pitcher. In one all or nothing game you have to go with the two best pitchers ever.

[Mikehealer]

Only going with players I saw play, so from the mid 70's to present day.

SP-Randy Johnson
C-Johnny Bench
1B-Don Mattingly
2B-Roberto Alomar
3b-George Brett
SS-Alan Trammell
LF-Barry Bonds
CF-Ken Griffey
RF-Dwight Evans

If Brett is up late, with the game on the line, I like the chances of this team.

[Runscott]

John, since it is all about one critical game, opinions are going to vary widely. I will take a season of Bonds but one game from Carlos Beltean
I almost put Dave Henderson and Scott Rolen on my team just because of a couple of key clutch performances I saw.

[Runscott]

I personally saw the game where a lefty ph was needed and Griffey jr was sleeping.

[botport]

Cobb-lf
Clemente-rf
Mays-cf
Ruth-p
Gehrig-1b
Wagner-ss
Bench-c
Robinson-3b
Sandberg-2b

[AndrewJerome]

1. Rickey Henderson LF
2. Honus Wagner SS
3. Mickey Mantle CF
4. Babe Ruth RF
5. Edgar Martinez DH
6. Lou Gehrig 1B
7. Yogi Berra C
8. George Brett 3B
9. Martin Dihigo 2B

Randy Johnson SP
Satchel Paige middle relief
Mariano Rivera CL


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[ElCabron]

In one game, all that really matters is the guy on the mound. Pick any one of the following as my starter and I like my odds: Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax, Christy Mathewson, John Smoltz, Madison Bumgarner.

Mariano Rivera as my closer, though I doubt he'd get in the game. And PLEASE, let me play one of these teams that has Ty Cobb, a .262 career postseason hitter who never won a championship.

-Ryan

[pgellis]

I can't believe what I'm reading:

Lance Berkman
Derek Jeter
Carlos Beltran
Madison Bumgarner

Come on guys!

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Runscott

John, since it is all about one critical game, opinions are going to vary widely. I will take a season of Bonds but one game from Carlos Beltean
I almost put Dave Henderson and Scott Rolen on my team just because of a couple of key clutch performances I saw.

Obviously people can have their own opinion in something like this, but I don't see anyone better.

I think if you remember the early playoff Bonds, you remember someone that tried too hard to win and got out of his game, or just didn't play well under pressure. I would not take the Pirates version in a critical game, even though he was perhaps the best player in the game then.

When he was at his best, he was a machine that most people who didn't see him daily, don't give him credit for. He had the tiniest strike zone in the business, stood on top of the plate due to that body armor they let him wear and he never swung at a bad pitch. That Bonds was so zoned in(plus the umpires basically let him call strikes) that he would be perfect on any team. Most people just think steroids, but if you watched him everyday(thank you MLB package for his last five years), you saw the perfect hitter. He was basically playing t-ball and even Mario Mendoza could have been a great player if every pitch he swung at was right down the middle.

[ElCabron]

Originally Posted by pgellis

I can't believe what I'm reading:

Lance Berkman
Derek Jeter
Carlos Beltran
Madison Bumgarner

Come on guys!

Have you watched baseball at all in the past 80 years? All 4 of those guys are amazing in the postseason. Bumgarner just had the best postseason of any pitcher in the history of baseball. And I hate the guy. But things are the way the are.

-Ryan

[ethicsprof]

batting order with position

cobb LF
hans wagner ss
Gehrig 1st
young Ruth P
josh Gibson c
Hornsby 2nd
Yankee Ruth rf
DiMaggio cf
Schmidt 3rd

best,
barry

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by z28jd

Obviously people can have their own opinion in something like this, but I don't see anyone better.

I think if you remember the early playoff Bonds, you remember someone that tried too hard to win and got out of his game, or just didn't play well under pressure. I would not take the Pirates version in a critical game, even though he was perhaps the best player in the game then.

When he was at his best, he was a machine that most people who didn't see him daily, don't give him credit for. He had the tiniest strike zone in the business, stood on top of the plate due to that body armor they let him wear and he never swung at a bad pitch. That Bonds was so zoned in(plus the umpires basically let him call strikes) that he would be perfect on any team. Most people just think steroids, but if you watched him everyday(thank you MLB package for his last five years), you saw the perfect hitter. He was basically playing t-ball and even Mario Mendoza could have been a great player if every pitch he swung at was right down the middle.

You are correct - if you watched him every day. Playoffs are different, especially in a one-game scenario. The guys on my list are for the most part people who I saw play under pressure.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ElCabron

Have you watched baseball at all in the past 80 years? All 4 of those guys are amazing in the postseason. Bumgarner just had the best postseason of any pitcher in the history of baseball. And I hate the guy. But things are the way the are.

-Ryan

I haven't seen Phil's list, but I'm certainly curious. I forgot about Bumgarner or I would probably have listed him instead of Schilling. Tough call there.

This has got me thinking about star played who I wouldn't want anywhere near a 'one game-winner takes all' scenario.

[conor912]

I'm not sure why, but at some point as I was reading this thread it occurred to me that it was possible to make up a team of just Yankees. I know it will have naysayers, but I think on any given day this team could beat any team made up of any players in MLB history....and I'm from Boston, so that's saying a lot.

1. Boggs 3b
2. Lazzeri 2b
3. Mantle lf
4. Ruth rf
5. DiMaggio cf
6. Gehrig 1b
7. Jeter ss
8. Berra c
9. Ford p

Rivera rp

[conor912]

Originally Posted by VoodooChild

7. Bo Jackson LF

Nice

[jbhofmann]

LF Bonds (yes leadoff..want him getting all the PA he can get)
RF Ruth
2B Hornsby
1B Gehrig
CF Mays
3B Cabrera
C Bench
SS Wagner

SP Paige

[oldjudge]

1. Mays CF
2. Jeter SS
3. Ruth DH
4. Gehrig 1B
5. Bonds LF
6. Schmidt 3B
7. Reggie Jackson RF
8. Berra C
9. Alomar 2B

P--Koufax
RP-Rivera

[Centauri]

My 2 cents:

LF Ty Cobb
RF Ichiro
1B Stan Musial
CF Willie Mays
3B Brooks Robinson
2B Roberto Alomar
C John Bench
SS Ozzie Smith
P Pedro Martinez

Hard for anything to hit the ground with that outfield. And the infield? Unbelievable. If I had to have a DH, Paul Molitor or Pete Rose.

My team is built to hit the ball, get on base, play great defense and have speed everywhere. Big time winners, clutch performers.

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by ElCabron

Have you watched baseball at all in the past 80 years? All 4 of those guys are amazing in the postseason. Bumgarner just had the best postseason of any pitcher in the history of baseball. And I hate the guy. But things are the way the are.

-Ryan

Yes Ryan, I have watched baseball in the past 80 years.

Beltran's post-season numbers are skewed from his insane 2004 post-season. That was an amazing post-season. He has only appeared in 1 World Series...vs. Boston in 2013. His World Series numbers for his career are:

6 Games - .294 Ave. - 0 HRs - 3 RBIs - 1 Run

Also in 2013, he batted .222 in the NLDS and .286 in the NLCS. Sorry, but no.

I know how everyone was crowing about Bumgarner last year, but it was not the best post-season ever by a pitcher.

He won 4 games last year in the post-season, but Randy Johnson won 5 in 2001 and Christy Mathewson threw 3 complete game shutouts in a World Series back in early 1900s....that was before Wild Card and Divisional Series. Tough to top that.

[obcbobd]

cf Mays
2b Lajoie
rf Ruth
lf Bonds
dh Williams
3b Schmidt
ss Wagner
1b Gehrig
c Gibson

sp Koufax
rp Johnson and Pedro
ph/pr Cobb
mgr Stengal

I agree Rivera is the best closer of all-time, but there were 20-30 starting pitchers who could have been just as good or better

[rats60]

Cobb cf
Wagner SS
Ruth lf
Gehrig 1b
Ted Williams DH
Clemente rf
Brett 3b
Hornsby 2B
Bench c
Koufax p

[frankbmd]

Who gets shot after the game? The players or the manager.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by ElCabron

Have you watched baseball at all in the past 80 years? All 4 of those guys are amazing in the postseason. Bumgarner just had the best postseason of any pitcher in the history of baseball. And I hate the guy. But things are the way the are.



-Ryan

One great postseason makes a player elite and worth starting over all of the all time greats? Laughable. Bumgarner is a really good pitcher, but let's not get carried away.


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[pgellis]

LF: Rickey Henderson
CF: Ty Cobb
3B: George Brett
DH: David Ortiz
1B: Lou Gehrig
RF: Reggie Jackson
C: Johnny Bench
2B: Joe Morgan
SS: Ozzie Smith

SP: Bob Gibson
RP: Mariano Rivera


Tough to leave Ruth off the list, but Reggie & Ortiz were so clutch. I think the toughest positions are C, 2B, & SS.

[glynparson]

1b- Lou Gehrig
2b- Joe Morgan
3b- Mike Schmidt
ss- Honus Wagner
rf- Babe Ruth
CF- Willie MAys
Lf- Barry Bonds
c- Roy Campanella
SP- Sandy Koufax
RP- Mariano Rivera
DH- Ted Williams

Lineup
1.Honus Wagner
2.Ted Williams
3.Babe Ruth
4.Barry Bonds
5.Lou Gehrig
6.Willie Mays
7.Mike Schmidt
8.Roy Campanella
9.Joe Morgan

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

One great postseason makes a player elite and worth starting over all of the all time greats? Laughable. Bumgarner is a really good pitcher, but let's not get carried away.


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+1

[rats60]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

One great postseason makes a player elite and worth starting over all of the all time greats? Laughable. Bumgarner is a really good pitcher, but let's not get carried away.


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You take Bum if we are talking current players, but all time he's not in the discussion. Koufax, two shutouts on 2 days rest. Gibson 7 world series wins in a row or Mathewson 3 shutouts in 5 games are easy picks over him in my opinion.

[z28jd]

I think it's interesting how people are picking old pitchers and also throwing a reliever in there as if you're going to take out Walter Johnson, Sandy Koufax or Christy Mathewson for anyone else with your life on the line.

The other interesting part, why pick a reliever, what if the game goes extra innings, or what if your starter doesn't have it at all? I picked Johnson and Mathewson. I would never take a reliever, not even Roy Face, who went 3+ innings numerous times. That seems like an awful risky thing to do in this situation.

As for the all Yankees lineup, how about an all Pirates lineup. You have the two best shortstop of all-time, so that hurts a little, but you could still put out:

CF Carey
SS Wagner
RF Clemente
1B Stargell
DH Kiner
LF P.Waner
3B Traynor
2B Mazeroski
C Sanguillen(or Al Lopez if you want all HOF)
Bench: Vaughan, Cuyler, L.Waner, Beckley
P Pud Galvin

[Runscott]

If this is a thread based entirely on post-season stats, then someone should just do some googling and give us 'THE ANSWER'.

If not, then I'm very happy with my roster and while some of the incredible all-star rosters I'm seeing don't impress me (I'm certain my team could whoop your team), I'll just raise my eyebrows a little and move on.

[Eric72]

Would there be any way to create rosters and have a tournament, using some sort of computer baseball game simulator?

16, 32, or 64 teams...single elimination.

Obviously, this would mean more than just one game. Oh, and we certainly wouldn't be playing for the stakes mentioned by the OP.

Sounds fun to me. Anyone else have an interest - or - know how to run the simulations?

[Big Ben]

Batting order for my lineup

Jeter
Mays
Ted Williams
Mantle
Ruth (DH)
Brett
Gehrig
Berra
Jackie Robinson

SP Koufax
Relief pitcher Bob Gibson
Closer Mariano Rivera.

[Mountaineer1999]

I am of the opinion that one could take 9 of the best players today and you would win more than you would lose against any other team put together.

Molina
Cabrera
Cano
Tulo
Beltre
Stanton
Trout
McCutchen
Kershaw

[Runscott]

Donnie, you might be right about that. When I was trying to pick a second-baseman, I wanted to go with Jackie Robinson, but I of course have never seen him play, and I wasn't sure what his postseason performance was. I chose my team based soley on my own gut feel about the players, with one exception: I wanted to put Scott Rolen at 3B because I remember being scared to death when Houston had to face him in the playoffs; however, I also remembered some choking. So I looked up his stats and dropped him in favor of Brooks Robinson, who I remembered making some jaw-dropping plays during the World Series. I chose Williams because of his performance in the last game of his .406 year. Not sure why I chose DiMaggio - just gut feel.

But you remind me that I forgot Cano, which amazes me, given that I collect Cano memorabilia and I don't particularly like Joe Morgan. My only problem with Cano is that he doesn't hustle, and in a life-or-death game, you need hustle - no one could accuse Morgan of laziness. Same for Jackie Robinson.

Eric - computer simulation would not work. What makes this thread concept so fantastic (to me, anyway) is that so much of the choice-making is based on intangibles. Overall Post-season stats might be terrible for a player, but during the most critical moments they might be incredibly good. Curt Schilling had a terrible first game in the World Series, but he was lights-out on a bloody foot when he absolutely had to be.

Great, great topic.

Edited to add: another player that Phil would wrist-slap me for adding is Dave Henderson. But anyone watching playoff games in the mid-80's will remember that, despite his mediocre playoff stats, he did some stuff. His jumps at the left-field wall were sensational as well.

[Lgarza99]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Donnie, you might be right about that. When I was trying to pick a second-baseman, I wanted to go with Jackie Robinson, but I of course have never seen him play, and I wasn't sure what his postseason performance was. I chose my team based soley on my own gut feel about the players, with one exception: I wanted to put Scott Rolen at 3B because I remember being scared to death when Houston had to face him in the playoffs; however, I also remembered some choking. So I looked up his stats and dropped him in favor of Brooks Robinson, who I remembered making some jaw-dropping plays during the World Series. I chose Williams because of his performance in the last game of his .406 year. Not sure why I chose DiMaggio - just gut feel.

But you remind me that I forgot Cano, which amazes me, given that I collect Cano memorabilia and I don't particularly like Joe Morgan. My only problem with Cano is that he doesn't hustle, and in a life-or-death game, you need hustle - no one could accuse Morgan of laziness. Same for Jackie Robinson.

Eric - computer simulation would not work. What makes this thread concept so fantastic (to me, anyway) is that so much of the choice-making is based on intangibles. Overall Post-season stats might be terrible for a player, but during the most critical moments they might be incredibly good. Curt Schilling had a terrible first game in the World Series, but he was lights-out on a bloody foot when he absolutely had to be.

Great, great topic.

Edited to add: another player that Phil would wrist-slap me for adding is Dave Henderson. But anyone watching playoff games in the mid-80's will remember that, despite his mediocre playoff stats, he did some stuff. His jumps at the left-field wall were sensational as well.

Scott, I'm with you. I totally went with gut feeling. And as I read some of these teams I do another gut check. B. Robinson, J. Robinson, heck even F. Robinson, Schilling when all the marbles are on the table, and I can't forget Kirby Puckett. Pete Rose too. He may have made my team before I knew about his betting? I do feel like he wants to win every game he competes in, but???

[chaddurbin]

where is the game being played? indoor/outdoor, grass/astroturf, petco park/coors field? mars....? depending on location/season i will craft a sabrmetric lineup that will embarass the all-time greats! long live david eckstein!!!

[Lgarza99]

How about outdoors and in Wrigley Field.

[nolemmings]

I know how everyone was crowing about Bumgarner last year, but it was not the best post-season ever by a pitcher.

Agreed. Koufax in '65 against my beloved Twins was better. 2 complete game shutouts, the second on the same short rest as Madison, 29 Ks in 24 innings back when hitters were ashamed to strike out, and one earned run in those 24 innings. Might have won game 2 also, had Alston PH someone other than Don Drysdale for him in the 7th with men on 2nd and 3rd and one out, although the BP got blown up thereafter.

These things are fun and of course debatable, but I really don't see how you can leave out Mantle. The guy was always clutch, even or especially on the biggest stages. Great against the ordinary and the extraordinary. I'd also be hard-pressed to leave out Reggie, who seemed to adore and thrive in pressure.