Pirate Cigarettes on eBay

[AJR]

I was curious if a board member won the pirate cigarettes pack with card inside on eBay last night?

If so, will you share with us which t215 was inside... If any?

Assuming you open the pack.

Thanks!

It was a probstein auction.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371159796338...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[buymycards]

The title says "T206", but chances are you won't find a T206 or a T215 in that pack. Probably more like this:

[rdwyer]

The pack is opened. Wouldn't take the chance myself, because the foil could've been opened and refolded. Maybe Jon can chime in, but I would think that the packs were issued over many years here and there.

[Jeffrompa]

Thought it was a bit of a gamble also . If it's a baseball card well worth it .

[steve B]

Apparently the distribution was fairly wide for such an uncommon brand. I bought a pack outer sleeve since it's as close as I'll probably get. Mine is from Holland and has their tax stamp. I'm not sure about the year, but it's a neat item with interesting graphics.

Steve B

[1880nonsports]

As there are VERY few surviving DUPLICATES of the Pirate baseball cards after accounting for the only known set (90+ cards sold for about 10,000. each) - and no proof has ever been offered with regard to them actually being distributed - it seems fairly easy to conclude not a single one ever made it's way into a pack. To begin with the window in which these cards (and most cards) were produced and distributed was small. Even if one was able to tie the tax stamp and cancel to the proper verified date of insertion - my guess is that the pack would likely be marked differently in some manner to differentiate it as the intent was supposedly our boys overseas.
For me it's all moot as the value is little if a pack shows ANY evidence that it might at any time have been opened regardless of the intent or if it's just possible based on the physical condition. If a pack is SEALED - the value is in the sizzle and not the steak. The mystery is what it's all about. If you open it the value is in whatever is or isn't in there. While one can't discount scarcity and condition, value is often dependent on the attributional characteristics like stamping, configuration, factory/district information. They define the relationship between product and manufacture - those that most accurately reflect that - the smallest leap of faith - tend to get the bigger bucks.

no guarantees whether written or implied.

However

If someone could show me visual and verifiable proof of a pirate baseball card being pulled from a pack

I'll buy and eat it

and the next net54 dinner is on me. Seriously.........

[1880nonsports]

Richard I wasn't aware that Pirate cigarettes were distributed here? I probably should revisit the big auction or perhaps Lipset's book? I don't really follow this subject anymore although I try and pickup information and a pack or two when I can - where did you hear that? Hard to figure I would have forgotten that but anything is possible.

[ethicsprof]

the best I can offer you for support of your theory is anecdotal corroboration(oxymoronic at best).
My pirates pack contained air.

all the best,
barry

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ethicsprof

...anecdotal corroboration(oxymoronic...

Possibly the coolest word trifecta ever!

[rdwyer]

When I said here and there, I meant overseas.

[ethicsprof]

many thanks!
it's always great fun hearing from a fellow logophile.

all the best,
barry

[Sean1125]

Was my pack that sold... Unsure as to a card.

[1880nonsports]

before you opened it - did it feel like there might be a card in there as has been told to me previously by two different reliable people with regard to such a pack they had in hand? I believe both people when they say something, I trust both people, but this is still me doubting even a chinese character card is nestled inside either pack. WITHOUT FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE (or something damn close) of any card being pulled out of any pack - I will forever be skeptical. My response to them was that it's probably the resultant folding of parts of the inner sleeve when constructing the pack and after that if anything at all I suppose a card or coupon is possible. Without question there won't be a ball player on it and doubtful even a chinese character. I suppose if the character cards came in a soft pack (doubt it) one might be able to feel something - I don't think you can "feel" a card that likely was distributed in a slide and shell pack. Foreign packs often employed the slide and shell packaging system long after it fell out of favor in the US so dating packs of that nature requires a study of the packaging and verbiage as it evolved over time moreso than on US manufactured packs.
As an aside - this is a good time to appologise to you Barry (should you come across this) for not answering a question quite a while back that you posed about the forces behind my somewhat eclectic accumulation.
I struggled at the time to find a way to explain it in less than 600+ pages but without the aid of my attending psychiatrist to get me over the rough spots and given I was in excess of my posting limit I just let it go. I'm inclined to respond now that I'm already here wasting time but I warn you my posts are usually governed strictly by a rolling stream of consciouness.
Simply put I guess my collection is about the celebration of the organic beauty inherent in objects and remnents of living things primarily from ancient times, juxtaposed with the art and beauty of the more recent but still old and antique objects and advertising (1860-1920) whose longevity and preservation was primarily dependent on their beauty and rarely their utility.
I collected NOTHING before the early 90's. Then I collected EVERYTHING. Now I am trying to hold steady......The fossils, gems, minerals, shells, quills, ammonites, and more are all a part of that once living world in which I still see beauty and wonder. The other half of the puzzle began with collecting cards and eventually morphed into a more global undertaking as I became interested in the history as well as ancillary graphic and three dimensional pieces associated with the companies who produced and distributed the earliest cards. Although I went afield a couple of times I maintain my original focus to frame my adventure under the umberella of tobacco as art. Tobacco seemed a good choice because some facet of tobacco distribution, production, sales, or manufacture was important in almost every aspect of life and commerce in the mid to late 1800's which provided lots of history - and plenty of tie-ins to base ball and other sports. In terms of tangibles there was and still is a good deal of tobacco related material out there to allow for a wide variety of pathways to follow and opportunities for more frequent acquisitions.
I suppose it was a little happenstance as well but the best part of having settled on a "category" for me is that it allowed for some kind of boundary to mitigate my genetic predisposition to accumulate anything and everything I found interesting. All that being said - unfortunately some of my tangents were driven by something at the time that I no longer connect with in the same way. With some things - in fact many things - it's no longer nessesary to own them to appreciate them - the experience was sufficient. They however remain with me in part because they are my children (after all I bought them as they had elements I appreciated aethetically or historically) and in part because I need an acceptible circumstance for their exchange.
Giving up at this point as I tried to make this short but obviously I've been only been somewhat successful . It took too much time to write this to just throw it out. I guess it can be cathartic at times and oppresive at others to look inside and examine ourselves and the motivations for what we do - especially when the motivation for one's actions are primarily self-centered. My hobby helps to keep me grounded although there's always something that comes up and makes me a little crazy. It can be crazier to put one's self out on a chat board uncensored. I'm not well..........

[ethicsprof]

The event of 'air' is from aeons ago. What I have now is a simple Pirates pack shell in gorgeous condition framed by itself with no card, beautifully matted.

May I say, what a treat it is to read from your most luminescent rolling stream.
You remind me of my Classics professor who would take a few of us on
trips to archaeology conferences in freezing weather with the windows of his rambler rolled down---quoting the hilarious passages of Suetonius and singing
glorious tunes in the ancient greek. I could go on but I know that you understand this.
You said it best when you defined the forces behind your accumulation
as a celebration of the organic beauty inherent in objects and remnants of living things from ancient times---that once living world in which we still see
beauty and wonder.
For me, baseball from the 'ancient times' is one of a number of Weisungen
both pointing and offering a conduit to beauty and wonder you so eloquently describe. It also serves as a pointer and conduit to the wonders of childhood
self-reflection with all the brilliance of imaginations still alive from our own
ancient days. We enhance our own 'aliveness' through the reliving and rejuvenating of these wonders and wondrous times.
Henry, I do hope that you will someday offer what you called your 600+ pages
in the form of a monograph that we all can read. I will take the further step
of having portions of it read to me by my wife as we drive with windows rolled down in the coldest days of winter in what once was called a buick.
all the best, ole friend
and thank you again
Barry

[buymycards]

I thought the auction title and description was completely deceiving. T206? Zero chance. T215 maybe a tiny, tiny chance. With Cigarettes and card? Who knows?

Very misleading and this falls just short of outright lying.

Rick

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by buymycards

I thought the auction title and description was completely deceiving. T206? Zero chance. T215 maybe a tiny, tiny chance. With Cigarettes and card? Who knows?

Very misleading and this falls just short of outright lying.

Rick

It was a Problemstien auction what more would you expect just be happy it wasn't shilled also.

[1880nonsports]

thanks for the kind words but I think I'll spare you and any others the diversion. Think it would read as Diary of a Madman and besides I wouldn't recommend mixing my prose with the use of anything mechanical.
Although we don't know each other I am always impressed by what is reflected in your posts as I read much of what's posted here and "the other side" (pretty slim pickings there at times). Your even keel and thoughtful approach when addressing the vagueries and moral dilemas that sometimes plague or perplex people posting here is noteworthy. Many of life's moral quandries can be difficult navigate at times. All too often life gives you the test and then the lesson, and we are all at least to some degree unprepared at times.
I assume you are a professor in the field of ethics? Are there other applications in a commercial field for such credentials? In any event I recently came across a quote online from someone I've never heard of but in responding to you today I thought it and your tangible as well as "osmotic" contributions here. He's no Suetonius (what normal person knows who that is ) but it speaks well of you I think.....
“Some strive to make themselves great. Others help others see and find their own greatness. It's the latter who really enrich the world we live in”
― Rasheed Ogunlaru
No more to post and already I've taken the attention away from the OP's thread although I think the question has been answered. Just taking the opportunity to LYK what I have taken from your posts in general and neglected to mention. Of course the interweb is a false god and you might be that guy with the cowbells, Peter Nash, or a cereal(!) killer.........

[Leon]

Originally Posted by buymycards

I thought the auction title and description was completely deceiving. T206? Zero chance. T215 maybe a tiny, tiny chance. With Cigarettes and card? Who knows?

Very misleading and this falls just short of outright lying.

Rick

+1. I told Sean that it was not considered an unopened pack BEFORE Probstein sold it.

[AJR]

Originally Posted by buymycards

I thought the auction title and description was completely deceiving. T206? Zero chance. T215 maybe a tiny, tiny chance. With Cigarettes and card? Who knows?

Very misleading and this falls just short of outright lying.

Rick

+1

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Leon

+1. I told Sean that it was not considered an unopened pack BEFORE Probstein sold it.

I'm lost. Why did Probstein list it as being unopened and containing a T206 card if neither were true?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'm lost. Why did Probstein list it as being unopened and containing a T206 card if neither were true?

Maybe he was too busy looking for shill bidding consignors?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Leon

Maybe he was too busy looking for shill bidding consignors?

I don't think Rick has to look for them -- they look for Rick, I mean when he's not involved in fraud relating to his own items he lists.

[Sean1125]

The pack was not unopened.

I do not verify listings, I ship things and Rick sells them.

I e-mailed Rick and let him know if there was a return I was happy to handle it due to a mistake in the listing.

Thank you for understanding.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

The pack was not unopened.

I do not verify listings, I ship things and Rick sells them.

I e-mailed Rick and let him know if there was a return I was happy to handle it due to a mistake in the listing.

Thank you for understanding.

Shouldn't the buyer be informed before they are shipped a pack that was not listed properly. Not just give a refund if they figure out they got sold something they did not intend to buy.

[rdwyer]

The slide and shell are separated in the pictures. That means it's opened. I doubt very much if Pirate Cigarettes distributed their packs without sealing them with either a tax stamp or rice paper, etc. Could be wrong, but doesn't seem likely to be an unopened pack.

[ethicsprof]

I, too, offer my apologies to the OP et al for getting things off track a bit and will sign off as well. Henry, Thank you for your very,very kind words. If I may
paraphrase and recontextualize Suetonius. Your offerings have left us with
the finest of marble, where bricks once lay.

all the best,
Barry

[AJR]

Originally Posted by ethicsprof

I, too, offer my apologies to the OP et al for getting things off track a bit and will sign off as well. Henry, Thank you for your very,very kind words. If I may
paraphrase and recontextualize Suetonius. Your offerings have left us with
the finest of marble, where bricks once lay.

all the best,
Barry

Henry and Barry,

No worries your posts have kept this thread interesting and a little different... Feel free to keep it going!

-OP

[buymycards]

logophile - isn't that a felony in most states?

[sgbernard]

As a Classics professor, I approve of this thread.