TPG Goof: Someone needs fired

[shernan30]

I'm not one to post eBay auctions to comment on them, but this is a good one. I hope PSA is less one employee in the grading department.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321487425853

[alanu]

This is obviously a mistake, but to suggest a person should lose their job is a stretch.

[bunst]

Why would anyone send that in for grading? It is worth 7 cents maybe.

[clydepepper]

The good thing is that because it is SO VERY obvious, no one will be fooled by it.

Still, it's a nuisance to anyone doing a search on 1887 Old Judge.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by shernan30

I hope PSA is less one employee in the grading department.

This is not the graders fault but the person who types the info onto the flip

[ullmandds]

I mean c'mon...the size of the card is so different too?

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by shernan30

I'm not one to post eBay auctions to comment on them, but this is a good one. I hope PSA is less one employee in the grading department.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321487425853

Really? People are going to make mistakes, even some that are dumb and obvious. Every company strives for 100%, but know that it will never happen. When you think of how many cards and miscellaneous junk that gets "graded" now by the grading companies, it's a wonder there are not even more mishaps. I'm not talking about the .5 or 1 difference in grades, but blatent errors. So they missed one. I'm glad that you are so perfect that you have never f**ked up on the job.

[ethicsprof]

I'm believing that Mr. Shernan is being a bit hyperbolic.
Such an excitatory response would help explain the use of an error,
viz. 'needs fired', to make a point about another's error.
IMHO

all the best,
barry

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

This is not the graders fault but the person who types the info onto the flip

Fire the typist!

Brian

[conor912]

Holy crap, it's almost worth 25 bucks just for the flip!

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by conor912

Holy crap, it's almost worth 25 bucks just for the flip!

Think if you were the one with the Old Judge card and they sent you a flip denoting it as a Conlon Collection! Argh!

[timn1]

I'm with the OP on this one. What does it say about TPG that something like this gets through? Makes the whole idea of TPG into a joke, IMO. Clearly there is no one knowledgeable doing quality control, at least at this company.

[JollyElm]

I'm still trying to figure out what "Someone needs fired" means.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I'm still trying to figure out what "Someone needs fired" means.

The true travesty with this post, along with why someone would send this in

[oldjudge]

The argument that if someone wrote this information on the submission form it is not the TPG's mistake for including in on the slab is ludicrous. The TPG screwed up big, and I agree with Steve--someone should be made an example of and fired. It is only then that people will take their jobs seriously.

[the 'stache]

Every once in a great while something comes along where I'm speechless. This is that rare example. I can't believe what I'm looking at.

Part of me wants to say somebody with an obvious grudge against PSA has concocted this card and flip combination to make them look bad. Because who would send that card in to have it graded? That defies logic. The shipping charge alone is more costly than the card is valuable. But what's really scary? That's the best possible explanation about what we're looking at here. Because any other explanation necessitates somebody at PSA being completely incompetent when it comes to 19th Century baseball cards.

So, what are the other possibilities?

1. Somehow, somebody at PSA messed up, and put a flip meant for a real OJ Hank O'Day on a Conlon O'Day that may be worth a dollar.

2. Somebody looked at this card, and thought it was an Old Judge Hank O'Day. Meaning they never flipped the card over, which clearly denotes the card is from the Sporting News Conlon Collection. They never saw the circa 1994 copyright mark, and they missed the MLB logo which, of course, did not exist back when OJs were manufactured. Oh yeah, and they also don't know what one of the most important sets in the history of our hobby looks like. There's that, yeah.

The worst part of this whole thing is that we're never going to know what really happened. But if somebody were to lose their job over this, I wouldn't feel badly for them. There are some mistakes that just cannot be made. And for a company that prides itself on professionalism, and accuracy, an employee grading cards that can't tell the difference between a 19th century tobacco card and a 20th century insert card-type exhibits spectacular ignorance, and they should not be employed by PSA.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

someone should be made an example of and fired.

I agree that someone should definitely be made an example of, but I'm on the fence about firing them. I hate to see anybody lose their job, but then again these mistakes are way too common. Maybe 2 weeks off without pay?

[swarmee]

There is one Hank O'Day from this set graded a 5.5; but it is designated as "Bat at ready, looking at camera". This card does not have that variation listed.

http://www.psacard.com/Cert/20990254

Looks like it's an officially graded card, since I can't see someone breaking the real card out of the shell once it's been graded, only to substitute it with a Conlon.

[glynparson]

It happens ALL THE TIME at every grading company. Problem is the proofer should have caught this before it went out the door. That is the individual that should face any repercussions. Not the Data entry person, who may not know a lot about cards.

[4815162342]

Come on gentlemen, no 19th century collector is going to be fooled by the flip on this card. I'm glad that I haven't been fired over the years for an honest mistake here and there.

[iwantitiwinit]

I agree with Daryl. While it's an obvious mistake and while it is someone's job to ensure cards are being evaluated properly we are simply talking about baseball cards here. To hope someone loses their job over this in my opinion is a bit severe. It is after all only a piece of cardboard.

[gregr2]

I wonder if they have a system setup that takes a random sampling of cards each day and have them reviewed for validation by a second or even third "expert" at the TPG? This way they could have metrics for the folks who do the grading and hold them to a certain standard. The second or third person would then validate the grade of the first grader (yes I know sometimes it seems like a first grader actually did the inspection) and they could keep statistics on each grader this way to help improve their skills.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

That's pretty bad.

[nsaddict]

The person that entered the info should NOT be allowed to continue in that capacity. Everyone makes mistakes but this is so outrageous! Cleaning toilets would be more fitting....wait, he tried that using Cool Whip

[Rich Klein]

And why isnt anyone saying the seller is making it crystal clear this is a major goof-up. We should have kudos for the seller on this

And, who kows, there may very well have been an old judge card which the flip got switched for and if that occured and you found the card would you correct the listing or would you try to swoop up that card for the bargian price

[sniffy5]

Who even knows what really happened? Could have been some disgruntled lackey underling over there at Psa who has a lazy boss, and said underling tried and succeeded in exposing his boss, the final arbiter of what leaves Psa, as an incompetent boob. Cause I gotta believe somewhere in the chain of events of this card's time at Psa, a joke was played at some point. But if this is an actual mistake, the person who is responsible should be let go. And anyone who sympathizes with such in competence probably can relate to it. Just my opinion.

[swarmee]

PSA has graded 8 other black Conlon Hank O'Day cards and five of the "Burgundy" type.

Another question: how did it get a PSA 5.5 rating with the paper loss on the front in UMPIRE?

[steve B]

That could just be debris on the scanner. I've redone a lot of scans because of stuff I didn't spot.


Has anyone checked the numbers around that one? I can see someone maybe sending in both the Conlon and an N172 if there's a registry for that, maybe hof master set? And then while they're slabbing the flips get mixed up. Maybe there really is an N172 out there slabbed as a Conlon?

More amusing than bothersome, unless I owned them. Then I'd be pretty annoyed. Nearly as annoyed I get at the now common mixing of tenses. (Not that I'm any sort of superstar in the grammar dept.......)

Steve B

[Peter_Spaeth]

IMO anyone suggesting someone should be fired over one inconsequential mistake is being hypocritical and ridiculous. Give me a break. Find out what happened, talk to the person, sure. But fire them? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, or something like that.

[mybuddyinc]

No one needs to get fired over this one

They just need to write: "I do know the difference between a T205 and T206" 100 times on the chalk board.


12x.jpg

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Yikes! That's a very blatant mistake and not only one person screwed up, but arguably at least 7 people in the later part of the grading operation missed this too. Reading this article below, one would think that at least one of the eight or nine people handling the card would have caught this obvious error - a 1887 card with a glossy finish? The most disturbing thing is that the "Verification Stage (2) Person" is supposed to catch these types of errors.

The Sticker Stage Person
The Spec Department Person
At least two, maybe three Grading Persons
The PSA Labeling Department Person
The Sealing Department Person
Verification Stage (1) Person
Verification Stage (2) Person

http://www.psacard.com/Services/PSAGradingProcess/

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Yikes! That's a very blatant mistake and not only one person screwed up, but arguably at least 7 people in the later part of the grading operation missed this too. Reading this article below, one would think that at least one of the eight or nine people handling the card would have caught this obvious error - a 1887 card with a glossy finish? The most disturbing thing is that the "Verification Stage (2) Person" is supposed to catch these types of errors.

The Sticker Stage Person
The Spec Department Person
At least two, maybe three Grading Persons
The PSA Labeling Department Person
The Sealing Department Person
Verification Stage (1) Person
Verification Stage (2) Person

http://www.psacard.com/Services/PSAGradingProcess/

Do you really believe they go through that many stages? It's more believable to me that 1.) one grader looks at a card and eyeballs it for a couple of seconds and assigns a grade and 2.) the card is labeled and encapsulated. Note that the majority of people working at PSA probably are not experienced in the hobby in any way, shape or form?

[nolemmings]

How much do you have to know about baseball cards to know that a card which is clearly marked "1916" on its front was not issued in 1887?

[Orioles1954]

There is also that human error factory. Slabbing tens of thousands of cards a day, I guess everything starts to run together?

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Do you really believe they go through that many stages? It's more believable to me that 1.) one grader looks at a card and eyeballs it for a couple of seconds and assigns a grade and 2.) the card is labeled and encapsulated. Note that the majority of people working at PSA probably are not experienced in the hobby in any way, shape or form?

I agree with you. Your assessment of PSA's grading process is more likely closer to reality than what is cited in that article.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

There is also that human error factory. Slabbing tens of thousands of cards a day, I guess everything starts to run together?

Probably so. I recall a friend of mine many years ago went to work for UPS and he had to sort out packages for various destinations. He told me that management would intentionally put in one or two packages that did not belong on a given truck to see of the sorter would catch them. My friend told me that it definitely sharpened his awareness and reduced mistakes.

[vintagetoppsguy]

This was posted over on the post war side, but it made me think of this thread.

1958 Topps Aaron re-colored and missed by a BVG grader. Yes, in this case the grader should absolutely be fired and never be allowed to work as a grader again. If there was ever justification for firing a grader, this is it. A labeling error (such as the original topic of this thread) is one thing, but overlooking such an obvious alteration is totally different - that is their job. That is what they get paid to do. If they can't spot the big things, how can they spot the little things?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251639638379...#ht_188wt_1153

I know, it's not pre-war, so maybe it doesn't belong in this section but, at least to me, the era of the card doesn't matter. It's the fact that such an obvious alteration like this should absolutely never slip by a TPG.

The seller is from Dallas and apparently blocking questions about the card. Anybody know the seller?

[bobbyw8469]

Please note the middle card....

[ksabet]

If you had 49 cards needed to be graded and the price difference between 49 and 50 is large per card, why not throw garbage in and save in the long run?

[glchen]

I really don't know why people need to be fired for this sort of thing. If there is a mis-grade, then PSA guarantees the card. If there is a mechanical error, PSA will reholder the card for free and reimburse your shipping charge. If I went to a restaurant, and my order was incorrect, I wouldn't demand to see a manager and insist that the waiter or cook was fired because they messed up my order. People would be looking at me as if I were Satan.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by glchen

I really don't know why people need to be fired for this sort of thing. If there is a mis-grade, then PSA guarantees the card. If there is a mechanical error, PSA will reholder the card for free and reimburse your shipping charge. If I went to a restaurant, and my order was incorrect, I wouldn't demand to see a manager and insist that the waiter or cook was fired because they messed up my order. People would be looking at me as if I were Satan.

Not sure how it works at your place of employment, but at my place of employment you get fired for incompetency. Missing the yellow highlighter (or whatever it is) isn't a simple mistake, it's incompetency. We're not talking about a mechanical error or transposing a numerical grade here; we’re talking about something so obvious that anybody with any card knowledge whatsoever should notice that.

[Fred]

Here's the explanation for those that don't understand the Columbus Ohio colloquialism of "someone needs fired" -

In Ohio (I shit you not), the locals shorten terms that should include "to be". For example, the term "Someone needs fired" in Ohio means the same thing as "someone needs to be fired" in most other parts of the US.

Another example is if someone in Columbus Ohio says "the car needs fixed" then that would indicate "the car needs to be fixed". Seriously, this is the truth. I've only heard this colloquialism in Columbus Ohio. I visit that city frequenty and the people with whom I work really speak this way. I've come to understand and accept it.

Now, the weirdest thing that happened to me in a Columbus bar (this is before I started figuring out this colloquialism) was when a girl in a bar asked me "do you want laid". I'm serious... I didn't get it when she first said it... I must have had a stupid look on my face because she repeated it and then looked at me like I was nuts....

[zachtruitt]

I have also heard that turn of phrase (or lack thereof) from an ex-girlfriend from BFE, Pennsylvania. It's not my favorite!

[mark evans]

Not a firing offense in my view, but another reason to be cautious when dealing with TPG cards.

[Butch7999]

We were going to jump in to explain/defend the "needs fired" phrasing (we offer no opinion on the gist of the actual topic)
when it was first questioned, but the thread quickly left the issue behind.
Thanks, Fred and Zach, for reviving the subtopic.
The construction is part of a regional dialect (one we find charming) that runs in an east-west band mainly from
Central Pennsylvania to Central Ohio, and probably epitomized by "Pittsburghese."
Y'inz can read more here:
http://www.pbs.org/speak/seatosea/am...pittsburghese/
http://pittsburgh.about.com/library/.../aa071200a.htm
http://dare.wisc.edu/

[MikeGarcia]

my car needs warshed...

[Leon]

My wife is an English major but from very East Texas. When we first met I almost needed a translator (and I am from Houston).

[WhenItWasAHobby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9znm34xAm44

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Butch7999

We were going to jump in to explain/defend the "needs fired" phrasing (we offer no opinion on the gist of the actual topic) ...

The construction is part of a regional dialect (one we find charming) ...

Brucii?

[Leon]

I wouldn't fire someone for this one mistake but I would make them be accountable for it. I think we let too many things go without even making folks responsible for their actions. The only way to continually improve is to make people answer for their ineptitude and if they can't do better, then replace them. But that's just me...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hank-O-039-D...p2047675.l2557


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