1952 Topps Mantle - Long Term Plan, Need Advice

[CamaroDMD]

Over the last year, I have slowly added a card here and a card there to my 1952 Topps collection. I know it will take me years (if not decades) to complete the set...and that's OK. At this point, the cards in my set are PSA 4-6 with good centering and that's just how I want it.

However, at some point I will need to bite the bullet and pick up the Mantle. I know saving up for the Mantle will take time, probably a few years and I don't think I will be able to get that PSA 4-6 card...it's just more than I will probably ever be able to spend. I think my hope is more in the PSA 1 range. It's unfortunate that I won't be able to match the quality of the rest of the set, but I simply don't think I will ever be able to. I don't think I should drag down the quality of the whole set because of one card.

I've done some research and decided that I only want a Type A Mantle, I like it better than the Type B. I just think it looks nicer. I understand that a PSA 1 will be a rough card. Hopefully, I can find one on the stronger side of the PSA 1 eye appeal spectrum with good centering. I know it will be loaded with creases and have bad corners...but I know there are some out there that look decent.

I know that I need to spend the next few years slowly saving my money and learning about this card. What good resources do you guys recommend for someone wanting to learn this card inside and out? Also, what price point should I be expecting for a nicer looking PSA 1 (Are we well above the $5K point)? Also, when I get there...where should I look to buy one and where should I avoid?

Thanks.

[MattyC]

Well above 5k for a great 1. The demand for such a card is enormous. And there are a literal handful of lower grade specimens with strong eye appeal. The price will keep escalating as well. It may outpace saving depending on the rate of the latter.

I'd study VCP grids; get to know every example that sold, how much, when, in what venue, and what its strengths and flaws are. In that respect the homework is rather simple-- study the cards and their sales.

Hope that helps. I also agree on variation preference but with this card one sometimes feels lucky just to have one that's not wrecked-- let alone with any modicum of eye appeal!


Best,

Matt

[CamaroDMD]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Well above 5k for a great 1. The demand for such a card is enormous. And there are a literal handful of lower grade specimens with strong eye appeal. The price will keep escalating as well. It may outpace saving depending on the rate of the latter.

I'd study VCP grids; get to know every example that sold, how much, when, in what venue, and what its strengths and flaws are. In that respect the homework is rather simple-- study the cards and their sales.

Hope that helps. I also agree on variation preference but with this card one sometimes feels lucky just to have one that's not wrecked-- let alone with any modicum of eye appeal!


Best,

Matt

I'm not looking for a super gem PSA 1...just not a rag. I'm not going to be crazy picky, I think there are quite a few out there that fit into my acceptable range. I want one on the nice side...but I'm not looking for a great one. What I don't want is one that is graded a 1 because that's as low as the scale goes and I don't want an "authentic" example due to it having some kind of damage/problem.

What is a good source for sales history of these cards?

[Bestdj777]

Best of luck finding one. Two of the better sources for pricing are Card Target and Vintage Card Prices. Vintage Card Prices has pictures of most of the public transactions over the last few years, and it includes pictures. There is a small membership fee, but the one day membership is rather reasonable. Card Target also has a good selection of prior reported sales, and I believe pictures as well. It is free and a great resource for 52 Topps Mantles. I went the paid route because I wanted to take a look at some of the sales for some of the oddballs. Anyway, the websites give you a great idea of what the market rate is for a card with aesthetics you approve of. Lower grade Mantles are all over the place.

I know you said you are adverse to something with an Authentic grade, but you can find some very aesthetically pleasing PSA Authentic examples for decent prices. I purchased a PSA 1 and an SGC Authentic. The SGC is a significantly more attractive card and only set me back ~$500 more (and I was buying it a couple years later when the market rebounded). It has a small deceptive trim but has the looks of of a 1.5-2.5. The PSA 1 on the other hand doesn't have nearly the same eye appeal. Just a thought.

I hope you are able to find a card you enjoy at a price you also enjoy.

[MattyC]

If you've seen 1s that meet your criteria, that's great. But if you take a look at examples sold in that grade on VintageCardPrices.com and come to see that you are looking at the best-looking 1s out there, in this current market, especially in an auction setting, the bidding battle for one of those is gonna get bloody. There are probably as many if not more guys after that "nice-looking PSA 1" than there are guys pursuing any other specific grade.

The 1-grade is as low as it gets and any card in that holder is going to have something that warrants the grade. Hence if the flaw is something that somehow does not detract in a major way from eye appeal, it's kind of an anomaly and rare for that fact-- hence it's gonna cost a hefty premium over the "normal" 1, which will tend to look pretty ragged.

[CamaroDMD]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

Best of luck finding one. Two of the better sources for pricing are Card Target and Vintage Card Prices. Vintage Card Prices has pictures of most of the public transactions over the last few years, and it includes pictures. There is a small membership fee, but the one day membership is rather reasonable. Card Target also has a good selection of prior reported sales, and I believe pictures as well. It is free and a great resource for 52 Topps Mantles. I went the paid route because I wanted to take a look at some of the sales for some of the oddballs. Anyway, the websites give you a great idea of what the market rate is for a card with aesthetics you approve of. Lower grade Mantles are all over the place.

I know you said you are adverse to something with an Authentic grade, but you can find some very aesthetically pleasing PSA Authentic examples for decent prices. I purchased a PSA 1 and an SGC Authentic. The SGC is a significantly more attractive card and only set me back ~$500 more (and I was buying it a couple years later when the market rebounded). It has a small deceptive trim but has the looks of of a 1.5-2.5. The PSA 1 on the other hand doesn't have nearly the same eye appeal. Just a thought.

I hope you are able to find a card you enjoy at a price you also enjoy.

Maybe I should consider an authentic card. I also come from the world of coin collecting...and in coin collecting anything that is in an "authentic" slab is a problem piece and those are to be avoided. Perhaps my view about them is somewhat incorrect.

[Bestdj777]

The views on authentic cards vary. Some people avoid them like the plague. In my opinion, there are three types of authentic cards: 1) graded ones that have been destroyed beyond recognition that I have no interest in; 2) raw cards that have been altered without the alterations being disclosed, that I also have no interest in; and 3) graded cards that have been deceptively altered that allow me to buy what looks like a 6K+ card for a substantial discount. Again, views vary.

If it wasn't for altered cards and the "ragged" cards out there, I would not be able to afford most of what I have in my collection now. I choose to view the defects as positives. I get authentics with great eye appeal at prices I can afford or beaters that were loved by generations of kids in the same way I will continue to love the cards. To each his own. Just thought I would mention the possibility in case you had not thought about it--don't want to sound preachy as I strongly believe there is no wrong way to collect.

[CamaroDMD]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

The views on authentic cards vary. Some people avoid them like the plague. In my opinion, there are three types of authentic cards: 1) graded ones that have been destroyed beyond recognition that I have no interest in; 2) raw cards that have been altered without the alterations being disclosed, that I also have no interest in; and 3) graded cards that have been deceptively altered that allow me to buy what looks like a 6K+ card for a substantial discount. Again, views vary.

If it wasn't for altered cards and the "ragged" cards out there, I would not be able to afford most of what I have in my collection now. I choose to view the defects as positives. I get authentics with great eye appeal at prices I can afford or beaters that were loved by generations of kids in the same way I will continue to love the cards. To each his own. Just thought I would mention the possibility in case you had not thought about it--don't want to sound preachy as I strongly believe there is no wrong way to collect.

I think it's something to consider...but I'll still probably try and find a decent "problem free" PSA 1. I think I would prefer to have an uglier but unaltered version of the card if possible. But, you have given me something to think about and if the right authentic card comes along I might jump on it.

I also think there is a big difference between "not a rag" and a "great PSA 1." I don't believe I am looking for cards that are in the "great" category...I just want something that doesn't look completely destroyed. I think I can find such a card.

[ZachS]

Originally Posted by CamaroDMD

What good resources do you guys recommend for someone wanting to learn this card inside and out?

I think this is a good starting point:

http://home.comcast.net/~52mantle/

[ALR-bishop]

Josh should get residuals

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by CamaroDMD

I also think there is a big difference between "not a rag" and a "great PSA 1." I don't believe I am looking for cards that are in the "great" category...I just want something that doesn't look completely destroyed. I think I can find such a card.

Getting a firm, accurate handle on price expectations can help one both avoid potential future disappointment at auction, and arm one with the knowledge needed to prevail at auction. Perusing the scans of PSA 1s on both Vintage Card Prices and eBay's completed sales will give you a great gauge of how nice your preferred examples really are for the PSA 1 bandwidth.

With most 1s indeed being very ragged, you may be surprised to see you are actually seeking a card that is in the upper tier of the 1 grade, and thus it's a 7k+ card and not a 5k card.

A salient point regarding the #311 and its market in the lower grades is this: the way the market is trending and pricing this iconic card the last year or so, I've been seeing that any PSA 1 which is not ragged is being sold for "high-end" PSA 1 money. So there's been an extreme polarization of price in the lower grades, based on eye appeal-- even if the card itself is somewhere in the middle. One should keep this in mind if they spot one they want and are determined to take the card home.

[Republicaninmass]

Don't overpay for one you don't like, they come up very often. Most are overpriced, just keep your eyes open and funds available.

[pawpawdiv9]

I waited paitently for mine. It was in a AH and suprised me that i won it..
It was the PSA 2(MK)...seen in my avatar.
The MK designated some penicl writing, but upon examination most of what was there faded away and barely visible...other than a crease, I love my 'B' variation i got a while back.
I think i am gonna wait a while for a 'A' to come up. I do agree they are better looking than B. I just cant afford it with the prices skyrocketed.

[CamaroDMD]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

I waited paitently for mine. It was in a AH and suprised me that i won it..
It was the PSA 2(MK)...seen in my avatar.
The MK designated some penicl writing, but upon examination most of what was there faded away and barely visible...other than a crease, I love my 'B' variation i got a while back.
I think i am gonna wait a while for a 'A' to come up. I do agree they are better looking than B. I just cant afford it with the prices skyrocketed.

Well, I just hope I can find one before the prices get too high. I was able to convince my wife that next year once my business is finally producing enough revenue to keep us comfortable (which should be the end of this year)...I can keep my part time job (Friday) job and use that money for my hobbies rather than quitting and working 4 days a week. I told her that I wanted to use the money to finish my car restoration project...but I'm thinking I might make a 1952 Mantle the priority and then finish the car. I haven't mentioned the Mantle idea to her yet...but she said OK to the car so that's a start. My Friday job produces enough income where I should have enough to pick up a PSA 1 with 2 months of saving.

[pawpawdiv9]

Here is a link, i give to most people to educate themselves on the mantle and variations and what to look for compared to fakes.
So please READ: http://home.comcast.net/~52mantle/

[CamaroDMD]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

Here is a link, i give to most people to educate themselves on the mantle and variations and what to look for compared to fakes.
So please READ: http://home.comcast.net/~52mantle/

Thanks for the link, I am actually already familiar with this site and have been reading it trying to memorize it.

[CamaroDMD]

Outside of auctions...are there any reputable dealers of vintage Mantle's that anyone could recommend?