Wow - an eBay first (rant)

[Section103]

I bought 2 BIN cards off ebay from a MAJOR seller that I have used before, but never in my life have I had cards sent POSTAGE DUE. The listings were for free shipping, but I had to pay $1.34 in order to get them. Clearly its not the money, rather than the principle. Because my post office is only open from 9-5:30 and I have a job, I had to take my lunch hour and drive 50 minutes round trip to get them. Grrrrr.

Anyone else ever get a surprise postage due delivery? Is this grounds for negative feedback? Ive had probably nearly 1,000 ebay transactions and have never (quite) had to leave negative feedback.

The seller has been questioned. I'll let folks know if anything interesting comes about.

[scottglevy]

Unless this was clearly marked on the listing I'd say it's at best a questionable practice. I've never even heard of a seller doing this for any category of items unless they explicitly stated that it would be handled this way (which I have seen a few times).

Everyone chooses to handle things like this differently. If it were me, I'd probably ask for a refund of the postage due (again for the principle clearly not for the money) and if they refused I'd add a neg.

Best,
Scott

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Personally, I would ask for a refund. I would then wait until they gave me a refund and leave a negative feedback. I hate when people use feedback as a bargaining tool.

[ullmandds]

that's a load of scrap! Er I mean crap!

[Cardboard Junkie]

If they are a "major dealer", it was probably an error/oversight. I would ask for shipping costs to be sent, then leave a neutral feedback, Negative feedback seems too harsh. Give him a chance to make amends.

[slidekellyslide]

How were the cards sent? Why was postage due on them? I sell a lot of postcards and twice I've had buyers tell me they had to pay postage to receive the items...both times a post office employee determined that my package was too thin to be sent with tracking so they automatically upgraded my package to priority and forwarded them on as "postage due".

[Shoeless Moe]

Most likely an error.....if seller gives you the refund, then it's all good, however even if they do, I would note it when you leave "positive" feedback.....just in case seller is doing it consistently and trying to get away with it.

Positive feedback is left so it doesn't hurt the seller, but its noted what happened, should others buy from them, they will see it.

[bn2cardz]

I would say it is hard to blame the seller. They may have thought everything was right. Also there was a postage price increase so that could have thrown something off. I would give the seller the benefit of the doubt as I have had more issues with USPS than sellers.

[slidekellyslide]

My guess is that a postal employee somewhere along the way thought the postage wasn't correct. Did the seller fudge the weight to keep it under 13 ounces? Or like in my case did it slip through their little size tool they keep at the counter and determine it should not have been sent with tracking? Whatever happened I wouldn't be so quick to blame the seller.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

My guess is that a postal employee somewhere along the way thought the postage wasn't correct. Did the seller fudge the weight to keep it under 13 ounces? Or like in my case did it slip through their little size tool they keep at the counter and determine it should not have been sent with tracking? Whatever happened I wouldn't be so quick to blame the seller.

This is what likely happened.

Sometimes the stuff gets through and sometimes it doesn't... It depends if someone catches it or what the postal employee 'thinks'. You never have this problem if you deliver it to the post office, only drop it off with pre-paid.

I would see what the seller has to say...

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

How were the cards sent? Why was postage due on them? I sell a lot of postcards and twice I've had buyers tell me they had to pay postage to receive the items...both times a post office employee determined that my package was too thin to be sent with tracking so they automatically upgraded my package to priority and forwarded them on as "postage due".

This would be my guess

[Section103]

Good point and this is the weird thing....

Bubble Mailer with a Stamps.com label and -no- postage paid at all. I haven't used Stamps.com, but this would be pretty tough to do (I think) with Paypal mail services. Im starting to believe it was some sort of error or oversight, at least I hope.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

This would be my guess

or.....sometimes I place something onto the automated mailer and, following all directions, it determines the postage to be $X.....and the item makes it to it's destination. Later, I take the same item to a teller and they insist it has to go for $2X because of the thickness or some such other crap.

I kinda doubt the seller meant for it to arrive postage due.

[tachyonbb]

Never assume malice when simple incompetence will do.

I would assume it was a mistake, not a deliberate attempt to save a buck.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I would say it is hard to blame the seller. They may have thought everything was right. Also there was a postage price increase so that could have thrown something off. I would give the seller the benefit of the doubt as I have had more issues with USPS then sellers.

1+

[jhs5120]

There is an obscure USPS rule that says a piece of mail needs to be at least 3/4" thick in order to qualify for delivery confirmation. (so 99.9% of bubble mailers would not qualify). If a very finicky postal worker sees a bubble mailer with a prepaid label they are within their right to upgrade it to priority (or RTS it).

My old post woman used to give me SO much crap for this. I had to go to the town over to mail out my cards.

[EvilKing00]

Thats aweful!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

There is an obscure USPS rule that says a piece of mail needs to be at least 3/4" thick in order to qualify for delivery confirmation. (so 99.9% of bubble mailers would not qualify). If a very finicky postal worker sees a bubble mailer with a prepaid label they are within their right to upgrade it to priority (or RTS it).

My old post woman used to give me SO much crap for this. I had to go to the town over to mail out my cards.

That is what a couple of Styrofoam peanuts are for!!

And to the OP, I am guessing it's a mistake somewhere...probably insufficient postage or something. Just see how they respond and you will know...

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Leon

That is what a couple of Styrofoam peanuts are for!!

You know, she would always suggest that, but I am too stubborn listen. It's a stupid rule. I once dropped off a box of 100 or so small Kraft bubble mailers with ebay labels to her and she sent each and every one of them back!

[Buythatcard]

As a seller, this happened to me about 3 years ago where the buyer received a postage due on one of my envelopes. It turned out that the envelope was less than 3/4 inches thick and some postal employee decided to convert it to a Priority mail package.

I always insert 1 styrofoam peanut in every bubble envelope that I ship out. This guarantees that it passes the 3/4 inch test. I never had an issue since then and I mail out several thousand packages a year.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Section103

Good point and this is the weird thing....

Bubble Mailer with a Stamps.com label and -no- postage paid at all. I haven't used Stamps.com, but this would be pretty tough to do (I think) with Paypal mail services. Im starting to believe it was some sort of error or oversight, at least I hope.

Just because it does not show the postage amount does not mean no postage was paid. If they printed a Stamps.com label, they paid postage (I use stamps.com, so I know firsthand). The label won't print if it can't charge you for it.

My guess would be that it's the thickness issue, or possibly his scale was off (though with cards, it's hard to believe it would be THAT off). Definitely check with the seller, and with the post office as to why the postage due. There's no way that a regular seller is doing this as a routine procedure to save a few bucks on postage. If he were, his feedback would be lit up with negs and it would be pretty obvious from reading the comments.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

As a seller, this happened to me about 3 years ago where the buyer received a postage due on one of my envelopes. It turned out that the envelope was less than 3/4 inches thick and some postal employee decided to convert it to a Priority mail package.

I always insert 1 styrofoam peanut in every bubble envelope that I ship out. This guarantees that it passes the 3/4 inch test. I never had an issue since then and I mail out several thousand packages a year.

I use photo mailers for all flat items that I send out. The same rule that has the 3/4" thick disclaimer also allows for packages that are packed in a "rigid" manner to be sent with tracking. I have mailed thousands of photos and cards in these things and only once encountered a postal worker who still balked at them being sent 1st Class. They did it consistently, so the buyer in that town simply reminded me whenever he bought something, and I made sure to bulk up the package.

I think it's a ridiculous rule too. I get that they don't want you slapping tracking on something like a letter. That's fine. But if I were a postal employee and had to choose between handling 100 flats that would stack or nest flat against each other vs. 100 bubble mailers puffed up with peanuts in every one, I know which I would choose!

[novakjr]

yeah. I've been getting a lot of postage due lately. As others have stated. The postage is good enough at the point of mailing, but somewhere along the line someone decided it wasn't. Generally because the mailer isn't thick enough.. Also as others have stated, a simple packing peanut usually solves things.

If anything, just let the seller know. See if they'll offer the postage due in refund. And make sure they know that they can solve the issue in the future by using a peanut or two...

[Gradedcardman]

I had that happen a few weeks ago. I took a quick picture of the Postage Due stamp, emailed it to the seller and had a paypal refund immediately. The only time that has happened to this point.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

I use photo mailers for all flat items that I send out. The same rule that has the 3/4" thick disclaimer also allows for packages that are packed in a "rigid" manner to be sent with tracking. I have mailed thousands of photos and cards in these things and only once encountered a postal worker who still balked at them being sent 1st Class. They did it consistently, so the buyer in that town simply reminded me whenever he bought something, and I made sure to bulk up the package.

I think it's a ridiculous rule too. I get that they don't want you slapping tracking on something like a letter. That's fine. But if I were a postal employee and had to choose between handling 100 flats that would stack or nest flat against each other vs. 100 bubble mailers puffed up with peanuts in every one, I know which I would choose!

According to my local PO, the two issues are unrelated. Ridgid or 1/4 thick and up is a package, (or a flat if it's only sort of ridgid like most photo mailers) And tracking starts at 3/4 thickness for stuff that's not priority or express mail. Fortunately the one package I had sent back for postage due was going to a government official and he was very understanding of the extra day to repack it in a thicker package.

And the supervisor was interested in figuring out who had written up the rejection, because they wanted extra postage based on a rate that was nearly a year obsolete!

Steve B

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

If they are a "major dealer", it was probably an error/oversight. I would ask for shipping costs to be sent, then leave a neutral feedback, Negative feedback seems too harsh. Give him a chance to make amends.

What about the aggravation? Not all of us can take a 50 minute "bone cruise" to the post office

[Section103]

While I will never know exactly what happened, it seems reasonable that the USPS pulled the "too thin" ruling and charged me on the backend. The seller refunded me the $1.34 and Im happy enough with his actions. It was an unnecessary hassle for some pretty pedestrian cards, but I see no bad intent. Thanks for all of the discussion.

[D. Bergin]

As has been said, postal rates recently changed, overzealous employees who don't quite know the rules are quite common also.

It's happened to me a couple times over the years.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by steve B

According to my local PO, the two issues are unrelated. Ridgid or 1/4 thick and up is a package, (or a flat if it's only sort of ridgid like most photo mailers) And tracking starts at 3/4 thickness for stuff that's not priority or express mail. Fortunately the one package I had sent back for postage due was going to a government official and he was very understanding of the extra day to repack it in a thicker package.

And the supervisor was interested in figuring out who had written up the rejection, because they wanted extra postage based on a rate that was nearly a year obsolete!

Steve B

Yup. The packing peanut should be unnecessary as long as the flat is rigid.

[Runscott]

I have found that each post office has its own 'flavor'. Best to make friends with each of the workers at your favorite post office - shoot the crap about nothing in particular. If they are still anal about ridiculous things, use a different post office.

I used to go to the lower Queen Anne post office in Seattle, and I'm happy to state publicly on this forum that they were the most ridiculous USPS employees to deal with ever: I had a package get bumped out of a service class for 1/2 inch of extra girth. A different worker would not insure a package I was trying to ship in a recycled USPS triangular box, because it had a couple of bent places on it. But I kept returning until the general rudeness overwhelmed me. Everyone there acted like they hated their jobs.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

You know, she would always suggest that, but I am too stubborn listen. It's a stupid rule. I once dropped off a box of 100 or so small Kraft bubble mailers with ebay labels to her and she sent each and every one of them back!

99% of postal workers are cool.....except for the 1% who are not. I used to have to deal with a woman my wife and I dubbed "creepy lady." This woman would give me the third degree whenever I tried to use Media Mail. "What's in there? Are you sure? Are you sure?" Just mail it, lady.

[Exhibitman]

Per the USPS:

Dimension Minimum/Maximum
Height 6-1/8 inches (15.557 cm)/12 inches (30.480 cm)
Length 11-1/2 inches (29.210 cm)/15 inches (38.100 cm)
Thickness 1/4 inch (0.635 cm)/3/4 inch (1.905 cm)

As long as you fall within the min-max parameters on one of these three dimensions, your item is a large envelope. However: "Large envelopes that are rigid, nonrectangular, or not uniformly thick pay package prices." Hence the peanut solution.

So, a slabbed card in a bubble mailer should be just fine as a package rate shipment due to it being a rigid large envelope.

I haven't had any reclassification issues with outgoing mail because everything I sell goes out is at least 1/4" thick and rigid--either a slabbed card in proper wrappings or a raw card between two pieces of corrugated or equivalent, or one of those rigid cardboard mailers--so it gets the package rate. FWIW, I've found that eBay's mail label system is convenient and offers decent discounts from retail postage on packages. Plus it integrates the tracking data for us lazy people.

I would rather spend a tad more to ship with rigid packaging than use a packing peanut or other lumpy item to create sufficient bulk to qualify for the package designation because I have had a number of items arrive with new creases in them when the seller put the card in a card saver or top loader with nothing more next to a packing peanut and the nimrods at the USPS squashed the package during normal handling.

[darwinbulldog]

I made a joke about this when it happened to me, and everyone just criticized me for it.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=154453

[bnorth]

I have never received anything bought off ebay with postage due. Unfortunately when ebay was new I sold over 150 89&90 Topps DoubleHeader cards in a week that all arrived with $.10 postage due. It was my fault and as soon as the first buyer contacted me about it I emailed everyone and apologized for my mistake.

Only one person out of over 150 did not accept my apology and offer to send them something free to cover my mistake. The one buyer that did not just say forget about it no problem called me a scammer and every other name in the book over $.10. I ended up sending the guy a few oddball Advil Nolan Ryan cards and he finally quit sending be harassing emails.
I really miss the early days of ebay.

[lug-nut]

i recently sold 4 cards on ebay(fees galore).com and when i used the automated postage it charged me about .90 each less than it should have been. the post office didnt deliver them postage due, rather gave them back to me and said "hey dumba*s, we need more money"...so i went back and paid the difference. i apologized for the delay in delivery and still got positive feedback.

[Bridwell]

The extra 50 minutes of your time going to the post office, plus the cost of mileage on your car is substantial. The IRS allows businesses a deduction of 56 cents per mile driven.

You're a nice guy to only ask for the $1.34 in postage reimbursed. For me, I regularly go to the post office for business mailouts at least once a week so it would not be as much of a hassle as you went through. This week I sent a card back to a seller when he sent me the wrong one. No biggie, just an honest mistake.

[marcdelpercio]

I have received two items that I purchased from eBay within the past week that had postage due. In both cases, it was just a few cents. Both items were from very reputable sellers with excellent feedback. I wonder if the recent USPS price increases were possibly not accounted for if somebody had a postage meter or software app set to the old amounts? Both items had prepaid eBay/Paypal shipping labels.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by marcdelpercio

I have received two items that I purchased from eBay within the past week that had postage due. In both cases, it was just a few cents. Both items were from very reputable sellers with excellent feedback. I wonder if the recent USPS price increases were possibly not accounted for if somebody had a postage meter or software app set to the old amounts? Both items had prepaid eBay/Paypal shipping labels.

My local USPS office, where I take my packages to ship, is getting more strict on everything. The other day they told me to quit using tape on the boxes or envelopes that are flat rate.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Leon

My local USPS office, where I take my packages to ship, is getting more strict on everything. The other day they told me to quit using tape on the boxes or envelopes that are flat rate.

That's weird - mine told me the other day that I "don't need to use tape" on the flat rate boxes. I do anyway, but I stick them in a bin, so they have no way of verbally abusing me

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Leon

The other day they told me to quit using tape on the boxes or envelopes that are flat rate.

I'll quit doing that when their boxes start staying sealed. I've had too many incidents of packing a box, setting it to the side while I do something else, and when I go to pick it up again, the flap is sticking up. No reason to think the same thing wouldn't happen en route. I've never been one to hand over a package and "hope for the best."

[TistaT202]

sold something on eBay. packed it up, weighed it three times. even rounded the weight up and just got an email from buyer that $0.71 due. Bubble mailer that clearly met the required specs...oh well. refunded buyer $1, apologized a couple of times for the inconvenience and await their response, which I hope is positive.

I will say that I sent plenty of stuff (many in bubble mailers like the one I had a problem with) just prior to the postal rate change with no problem.

life goes on...

Mike

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by TistaT202

sold something on eBay. packed it up, weighed it three times. even rounded the weight up and just got an email from buyer that $0.71 due. Bubble mailer that clearly met the required specs...oh well. refunded buyer $1, apologized a couple of times for the inconvenience and await their response, which I hope is positive.

I will say that I sent plenty of stuff (many in bubble mailers like the one I had a problem with) just prior to the postal rate change with no problem.

life goes on...

Mike

Hope it works out and seller realizes it was not your fault. I have not sold on ebay for a while and have paypal but try to never use it. My question is when you refunded the buyer do they still get charged the $.35 and 3% transaction fee on the refund? Just curious.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

I'll quit doing that when their boxes start staying sealed. I've had too many incidents of packing a box, setting it to the side while I do something else, and when I go to pick it up again, the flap is sticking up. No reason to think the same thing wouldn't happen en route. I've never been one to hand over a package and "hope for the best."

Yeah, that seems like a ridiculous request to demand. I tape over the seals on every Priority Box & Envelope that I send out. No reason I should make it easier for somebody else to rifle through the package.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Hope it works out and seller realizes it was not your fault. I have not sold on ebay for a while and have paypal but try to never use it. My question is when you refunded the buyer do they still get charged the $.35 and 3% transaction fee on the refund? Just curious.

No, not if you refund it directly from the transaction page.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Hope it works out and seller realizes it was not your fault. I have not sold on ebay for a while and have paypal but try to never use it. My question is when you refunded the buyer do they still get charged the $.35 and 3% transaction fee on the refund? Just curious.

If you do an actual refund of a portion of the original payment, Paypal will tell you what portion of that refund is coming out of your account balance and what portion is refunded from the original fees they charged you. They refund the portion of the fees that applied to the amount you are refunding.

I'm not sure how eBay handles refunds these days though. It used to be that you got charged Final Value Fees on whatever amount the buyer paid, but when you refunded, there was no pro-rated refund of the FVF's. The reasoning was that eBay didn't know if you were refunding a portion of the item price or a portion of the shipping cost (this was before they charged FVF's on both item price and shipping). I'm not sure if it's still that way or not though now that they charge FVF's on everything. I haven't taken the time to dig through my invoice to determine.

[slidekellyslide]

I just got one back in the mail yesterday and I also got a letter from the post office that sent it back...the letter clearly states it must be 3/4" OR in a rigid mailer...which it was in!!!!! My brother called the post office that sent it back and they said it's not a "Rigid mailer" if they can bend it 2 inches...I checked the mailer and sure enough they bent the damn thing in half when it has a "Do Not Bend" sticker right on the package. The place I order these 6 x 8 envelopes from calls them "Rigid mailers".