Has Anyone ID'd Sharpe In T206??

[DeadBallEraCubs]

Sorry if I have missed this through the years but has anyone ever ID'd the player mislabeled as Sharpe in T206??

Who is this guy??

[z28jd]

It's Bud Sharpe, played for Boston and the Pittsburgh Pirates. Was on Newark in 1907-09.

http://blogs.piratesprospects.com/hi...tory-august-6/

[DeadBallEraCubs]

indicates that Sharpe is mislabeled in T206 as Harry Hinchman.

[z28jd]

corrected below

[DeadBallEraCubs]

In my opinion, the real Sharpe resembles whom is labeled as Hinchman in T206.

[z28jd]

Corrected below

[z28jd]

I found this, which Sharpe obviously doesn't look like his T206

http://loveofthegameauctions.com/lot-389.aspx#

Doesn't look like Hinchman either, hairline doesn't match. Looks like Sharpe was balding. If you look, most of the T206 minor leaguers were based on this. Not sure I see any that look exactly like the T206 Sharpe, but you have to remember it's just a drawing of a picture, so it might not be exact

[abothebear]

It is Shoeless Joe.

[DeadBallEraCubs]

That's a good find John!! After viewing it, I still believe that it resembles Hinchman in T206. Since Sharpe wasn't playing for Newark in 1910 when the 350 series was issued, I think that we would need to find a Newark composite from that year to ID what player is on the Sharpe card.

[DeadBallEraCubs]

I don't find a resemblance on any of these players either from 1910.

http://www.goodwinandco.com/lot-11747.aspx

[z28jd]

A lot of the T206 portraits are older shots. For instance, the Lucky Wright picture is actually a picture of Eugene Wright from a 1903 Horner photo. The Otto Krueger is a 1904 photo and it's actually supposed to be Art Kruger, who was playing for Columbus at the time. So both of those cards showed the wrong player and used much earlier photos

[veloce]

Every photo I can find of Sharpe looks like the Hinchman M116/T206... long face and bulgy eyes. Hard to find pictures of Hinchman, but I see Rhett has this pic on his starsofthediamond website (and apparently is selling the group of Colgan's on B/S/T ):



I can imagine Hinchman's face being painted that way. Seems plausible that they just accidentally swapped the Hinchman and Sharpe photos before the artwork was done.

[nolemmings]

I can imagine Hinchman's face being painted that way.

I can't, although I thought about that too when I checked my Colgans. The chin and the brow are pretty far off, and I don't know why they would give him that hairstyle.

This might better show the diferences.

[bmarlowe1]

LOL - Quite a lot of confusion here. To start with, the Colgan Chiip (below left) depicts Bill Hinchman (exemplar below right), not Harry Hinchman.

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by z28jd

I would say it's likely the other way around. Hinchman is pictured on Sharpe's M116 card, since Hinchman looks just like his T206 card

Clearly not. We have the real Harry Hinchman below left and center - a bit older, but nonetheless the guy on the card is a different human.

[veloce]

Whoops, my bad. Somehow I didn't even notice the Toledo vs. Columbus aspect. I guess I was thinking midsize midwest city with an American Association team. Strange that Rhett listed him as Harry as did SGC... of course they're brothers so a picture of one should resemble the other

[bmarlowe1]

Lastly, comparing the cards (below center and left) to the Bud Sharpe exemplar photo (right), the ear shape, hairline and every other isolated facial feature matches, hence it couldn't be more obvious that Sharpe is depicted on the cards.

[DeadBallEraCubs]

Yes Mark, this is what I have been saying from the beginning. Sharpe is mislabeled as Hinchman in the T206 set. My question was if anyone had ID'd the player that was labeled "Sharpe" as it is obviously not Sharpe.

[bmarlowe1]

Jeff - yes I know - but I don't have the answer to that one other than, as you had said, it's obvious that the face in your first post is not that of Bud Sharpe. I just wanted to correct what the others had posted.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by bmarlowe1

Jeff - yes I know - but I don't have the answer to that one other than, as you had said, it's obvious that the face in your first post is not that of Bud Sharpe. I just wanted to correct what the others had posted.

I changed what I wrote after I found the 1907 team composite. See link about ten posts up

[frankbmd]

Taylor, Buffalo, name on the top

Sharpe, photo in the middle

Hinchman , name on the bottom

And an American Beauty back to boot

Johnny V, get out your checkbook.

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by z28jd

Here is the Hinchman photo I've used before and was basing that response on

I know I'm late to the party, but the photo above with Hinchman wearing a Pirates hat is actually Harry's brother Bill.

[z28jd]

I need to erase those old messages because people keep skipping the message where I found the composite and changed my mind. Please disregard the earlier messages, which I will now erase to avoid further confusion. That Hinchman photo I first used was from his Baseball Prospectus page and can be easily found with an internet image search. That is where I got it. That was posted before I found the composite photo online and we moved on from there

[bmarlowe1]

Yes - that "Harry" Hinchman photo from Baseball Prospectus is Bill Hinchman. Note also that the Harry Hinchman image currently on Baseball-Reference is actually Bud Sharpe.

[mrvster]

Great card!! 2 different names are tuf enuf, let alone an ab!



but I don't see sharpe??

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by veloce

Every photo I can find of Sharpe looks like the Hinchman M116/T206... long face and bulgy eyes. Hard to find pictures of Hinchman, but I see Rhett has this pic on his starsofthediamond website (and apparently is selling the group of Colgan's on B/S/T ):



I can imagine Hinchman's face being painted that way. Seems plausible that they just accidentally swapped the Hinchman and Sharpe photos before the artwork was done.

I'm not sure why I have him listed as Harry on my website, must have been an mistake from the SCD checklist when I set up the site, obviously the image is of Bill (as pointed out) and Bill was the player with Columbus during that time period, also according to my own player database this is what I have as far as their cards...


Hinchman, Harry S.
• 1911 T201
• 1909/11 T206 Tol
• 1902/11 W600 1907 Cle

Hinchman, William W. (Bill)
• 1908 Am Pub Co PC
• 1909/11 Colgans (E254)
• 1912 Colgans Red
• 1913 Colgans Tin Tops
• 1909/10 E97
• 1909/10 E97 B/W
• 1917/20 M101-6
• 1908/09 Rose Co PC
• 1909/11 T206 Cleve
• 1909/10 W555 Heinchman
• 1902/11 W600 1907 Cle

[veloce]

Thanks for the list Rhett, so I was sort of right. Look at the Rose company photo:

http://oct13.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...em.pl?lotno=22

This is the photo, that the T206 Sharpe card used. T206 did switch the Hinchman and Sharpe photos and then they further messed up Bill and Harry.

[Vintagecatcher]

Corrected version. So if I'm following at home correctly, the T206 Sharpe (Newark) is actually Harry Hinchman not Bud Sharpe and the T206 Hinchman (Toldeo) is actually Bud Sharpe...which gives us the old "double switch."

Patrick

[veloce]

Originally Posted by Vintagecatcher

So if I'm following at home correctly, the T206 Sharpe (Newark) is actually Bill Hinchman not Bud Sharpe and the T206 Hinchman (Toldeo) is actually Bud Sharpe...which gives us the old "double switch."

Patrick

Correct.

[DeadBallEraCubs]

Very nice find Rick!! So, that answers my question. The player featured on Bud Sharpe's T206 card is actually Bill Hinchman. Bud Sharpe on the other hand is featured on Harry Hinchman's T206 card. Very nice work by all

[Vintagecatcher]

So, in theory, Sharpe collectors might be Hinchman collectors and Hinchman collectors might be Sharpe collectors...no wonder Pete hates "The Monster!"

Patrick

[z28jd]

I wonder what the players thought back in the day. If they said anything. Great work by everyone in finding this.

Don't you think some of these guys got their card and said, umm, that's not me.

Besides these cards, the Wright and Kruger cards being wrong, there is also Bill Clymer showing Otis Clymer, so at least five cards show the wrong player.

[bmarlowe1]

Nice job finding the matching Rose card, but the conclusion given above is wrong.

The guy on the Rose card (below left), that is a perfect match to the t206 that started this thread, is obviously Harry Hinchman (exemplar repeated below center). Note that that ears match. Bill Hinchman (right) has a differently shaped ear. Therefore the guy in the post that started this thread is Harry Hinchman.

[veloce]

Oops again. I feel comforted by the fact that the card companies of the era had trouble sorting the Hinchman brothers out as well as many people since.

At least the 1908 Am Pub Co team postcard seemed to get it right: see http://www.sportingoregon.com/p799838731/e1573f694

So the Rose Co. card is wrong and T206 swapped photos on Harry Hinchman and Bud Sharpe.

Thanks, Mark, for patiently reposting the Hinchman portraits.

[rhettyeakley]

Thanks for posting the Rose Co postcard. Both guys played on the 1907 Cleveland Indians so it appears the Rosé Co postcard should be attributed to Harry and not Bill even though they probably meant to depict Bill who would continue in the majors while Harry would never again get there. In my database I list who they intended to depict, in this case it doesn't matter as the image is Harry, team is correct for both Bill and Harry and they only have a last name so IMO that is a card of Harry Hinchman.

That being said it is a pretty terrible artists rendition from the Horner image on the Rose to the T206, it became nearly unrecognizable as Harry. Cool thread, I love it when we can solve I'd mysteries.