Are Older SGC Graded Cards Valued Less?

[wazoo]

The title says it all.

For example...the SGC cases with stickers compared to the ones that don't have them.

[DeanH3]

I think SGC labels that do not have the two different numbers on them might be looked at differently. I thought I remember SGC saying at one time their guarantee did not cover those cards without the two grades. I could be wrong so hopefully someone will chime in and correct me if I am wrong. Personally, I avoid SGC cards with the single grade on them.

Edit to add: I think SGC cards with the two grades AND a sticker on the back do not carry a lesser value.

[irishdenny]

Hey there Wazoo,

What I Believe/Know and my experience with the 1st year SGC was in Business.

From the Watermarked Front Background Label, to the Gold Label on the Back Era of SGC... Not to mention Names! However, I was told that they had an Employee that somewhat over graded cards.

If You think about it though, Buying the Card and Not the Grade, Surly Clears it All up!

SGC Has Been the Most Honorable Company that I've Ever Done Business with!

My Experience with them, to me ~ "Says it ALL!"

One of my earliest adventures was with "The Golden Label". I purchased a T200 of The NY Nationals. I was told it was an Exceptional SGC60/5. Exactly what I was looking for! I didn't get to see it til it arrived at my doorstep, at the time I trusted the gentleman who had it & sold it to me. When it arrived, I liked the Card, However, It was Not Exceptional as I was led to believe.

So, After a little go around with the seller... Lets just say the card remained in my possession. I read SGC's Site, Contacted them... The end result was that they re~Slabbed it into a SGC40/3 and Refunded me the 1000+ dollars over the then market value at that time!
"I was Shocked!!!"

The Head Grader told me that SGC was in the process of making things Right...

I don't know what else to Say... I know that I could of been satisfied with the Card in the 1st place... After SGC asked me to send them a scan... They told me of their intention's... I just followed their advice from that moment on!

Their Counsel & Outcome... Was far from what I had ever imagined!

[CMIZ5290]

Waz- Based upon my experience, I actually think SGC was extremely strict in their grading during their initial years. I do not think there is a difference in value, not at all. Furthermore, if you try to review and bump and old SGC graded card, worst scenario is they would encapsulate it with a new holder if it did not bump...

[wonkaticket]

Waz,

Different experiences I guess. I find the early grades back when I think Derek was around were a bit more forgiving. Under Scott I think they are a bit tougher especially on cards EXMT or better. On the VG-VGEX they have been pretty stable.

P.S. Waz, Meow.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Which old label are we talking about, there are two. One from before Waz was born probably LOL.

[RGold]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Waz- Based upon my experience, I actually think SGC was extremely strict in their grading during their initial years. I do not think there is a difference in value, not at all. Furthermore, if you try to review and bump and old SGC graded card, worst scenario is they would encapsulate it with a new holder if it did not bump...

Now on BST, I wonder who might be trying to sell an expensive T206 Cy Young in an old SGC holder?

Waz, ignore Kevin's post. He's wrong, and he knows better. Dean's post is accurate.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by RGold

Now on BST, I wonder who might be trying to sell an expensive T206 Cy Young in an old SGC holder?

Waz, ignore Kevin's post. He's wrong, and he knows better. Dean's post is accurate.

Hmmm. Funny you say that Ron, because I just recently crossed an older graded SGC 86 to an 88 holder. Maybe that was an isolated example Also, are you saying an older graded card won't cross to a new holder??

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Hmmm. Funny you say that Ron, because I just recently crossed an older graded SGC 86 to an 88 holder. Maybe that was an isolated example

Ron never said that no older graded card would cross. What he and Dean are saying is that in general they are worth less because there is a perception that many of them won't cross to the same grade, if at all. A perception certainly aided by SGC's own non-guarantee.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by RGold

Now on BST, I wonder who might be trying to sell an expensive T206 Cy Young in an old SGC holder?

Waz, ignore Kevin's post. He's wrong, and he knows better. Dean's post is accurate.

Also, for the record, before all the comments and arrows come flying...The SGC Young I have is a solid 86, Three NM-MT corners with one that is NM. The card is accurately graded in my opinion....thanks

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Also, for the record, before all the comments and arrows come flying...The SGC Young I have is a solid 86, Three NM-MT corners with one that is NM. The card is accurately graded in my opinion....thanks

Will you guarantee that it crosses to a new holder?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Will you guarantee that it crosses to a new holder?

Yes, it will cross to a 70, guaranteed...Thanks, and now ladies and gentlemen, HERE comes the witchhunt!!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Yes, it will cross to a 70, guaranteed...Thanks, and now ladies and gentlemen, HERE comes the witchhunt!!!

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Will you guarantee that it crosses to a new holder?

Peter- I'm sorry for the sarcasm. Yes, I will guarantee the card crossing to at least an 86 holder. Sorry again....Thanks

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Peter- I'm sorry for the sarcasm, yes, I will guarantee the card crossing to at least an 86 holder....Thanks

Cool, good to see you stand behind it.

[RGold]

I have probably submitted more cards for crossover to SGC than anyone on this board. I have been successful in crossing cards from old holders. However, the SGC guarantee does not apply to cards in old holders.

When you submit a card in an old SGC holder, it will be treated like a card that has been graded by another company. While SGC does not guarantee cards in old holders, they may, on rare occasions, buy the card back or reholder it at a lower grade and pay the difference. However, that is because they do not want a badly misgraded card floating around.

Now Kevin knows all this already. I would not normally comment on a card that someone is selling in the BST section. However, Kevin constantly uses the main forum to advance his agenda in the BST.

Because cards in old SGC holders do not carry the guarantee, they sell for less. Because they sell for less, it is assumed by savvy buyers that the seller has already tried to cross the card to a new holder. Or, in Kevin's case, since PSA cards sell for so much more, it is assumed he tried to cross the Cy Young into a PSA holder. Why wouldn't he?

[Leon]

When I am buying or obtaining a card I generally look at the card more than I do the age of the holder. Now, if a card is in a high grade GAI holder, then I run the other way (some might be good, a lot aren't). But for SGC or PSA, old or new holders aren't a big deal to me. I have crossed one card I remember, an N284 SGC 92 King Kelly. It crossed from a very old SGC holder to a new one with the same number. That was maybe 5-6 yrs ago....

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by RGold

I have probably submitted more cards for crossover to SGC than anyone on this board. I have been successful in crossing cards from old holders. However, the SGC guarantee does not apply to cards in old holders.

When you submit a card in an old SGC holder, it will be treated like a card that has been graded by another company. While SGC does not guarantee cards in old holders, they may, on rare occasions, buy the card back or reholder it at a lower grade and pay the difference. However, that is because they do not want a badly misgraded card floating around.

Now Kevin knows all this already. I would not normally comment on a card that someone is selling in the BST section. However, Kevin constantly uses the main forum to advance his agenda in the BST.

Because cards in old SGC holders do not carry the guarantee, they sell for less. Because they sell for less, it is assumed by savvy buyers that the seller has already tried to cross the card to a new holder. Or, in Kevin's case, since PSA cards sell for so much more, it is assumed he tried to cross the Cy Young into a PSA holder. Why wouldn't he?

Ron, I too have crossed lots of cards from PSA to SGC and older SGC holders also. I agree with you 100%.

As for commenting on other members cards mainly in terms of picking apart their grades I think it’s a weak thing to do so I avoid.

However since Kevin asked directly about his Young card while it’s a real beauty I don’t think that card would become an 86 today based upon the scans provided on the BST. I think it would be more in the 82-84 at best range based on my experience with SGC which is now well over 2k graded SGC cards.

Not a shot at Kevin because the card is very nice I’d love to own it. I too am shocked Kevin hasn't moved this to a PSA holder he has made a big point of saying money for cards is left on the table unless they are in PSA holders....

[chaddurbin]

i had a "SG" t206 speaker 60 that came back trimmed many years ago, so yes personally i treat them the same as GAI holder...and i'd rather buy a raw card than a GAI card.

derek's gold sticker SGC grades are the toughest!

[tbob]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

i had a "SG" t206 speaker 60 that came back trimmed many years ago, so yes personally i treat them the same as GAI holder...and i'd rather buy a raw card than a GAI card.

derek's gold sticker SGC grades are the toughest!

Never much love for GAI cards I have plenty of really beautiful caramel cards graded in GAI holders from back in the day when GAI was just as strict as SGC. Granted that time has long passed but there was a time when GAI graded cards were very credible.
P.S. I haven't had a card graded by GAI now in 6-7 years....

[chaddurbin]

agreed tbob, if i'm buying GAI the safest ones would be the "First Graded" labels. you can be certain those were the earliest GAI stuff.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by tbob

Never much love for GAI cards I have plenty of really beautiful caramel cards graded in GAI holders from back in the day when GAI was just as strict as SGC. Granted that time has long passed but there was a time when GAI graded cards were very credible.
P.S. I haven't had a card graded by GAI now in 6-7 years....

The problem with buying GAI is that while there is a very new generation holder that should be avoided at all costs in my opinion, I don't know of any way to tell the difference between the early cards that Bob mentions which I agree were quite legit and cards from a few years later with the same holder and flip where the company clearly had started to make compromises.

[chaddurbin]

1st gen GAI can also be iffy because alot of their business came from the $2.50 pre-grade at shows where they looked at the card under a yellow lamp for 10-15sec and assign a grade to it (if you like the grade it costs an additional $5-$10 for slabbing back at their HQ). i suspect lots of altered stuff passed through this way.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by RGold

I have probably submitted more cards for crossover to SGC than anyone on this board. I have been successful in crossing cards from old holders. However, the SGC guarantee does not apply to cards in old holders.

When you submit a card in an old SGC holder, it will be treated like a card that has been graded by another company. While SGC does not guarantee cards in old holders, they may, on rare occasions, buy the card back or reholder it at a lower grade and pay the difference. However, that is because they do not want a badly misgraded card floating around.

Now Kevin knows all this already. I would not normally comment on a card that someone is selling in the BST section. However, Kevin constantly uses the main forum to advance his agenda in the BST.

Because cards in old SGC holders do not carry the guarantee, they sell for less. Because they sell for less, it is assumed by savvy buyers that the seller has already tried to cross the card to a new holder. Or, in Kevin's case, since PSA cards sell for so much more, it is assumed he tried to cross the Cy Young into a PSA holder. Why wouldn't he?

Ron- not really sure where this discontentment is coming from. First of all, when have I used the main forum to promote a card? My Young card was submitted on this thread without my knowledge, by another member... I have bought many SGC cards from you (mostly overgraded by the way). Bottomline, I don't give a damn whether someone buys the Young or not, absolutely could care less. But, having said that, I will take bets on whether or not it crosses to a new 86 holder...

[wazoo]

Thanks for all the information everyone, and the entertainment as well.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by wazoo

Thanks for all the information everyone, and the entertainment as well.

Wazoo- You may just be a kid, but you definitely know how to stir the pot...You should fit right in...

[wazoo]

Hahahah, hey it was just a question!

[wonkaticket]

Yeah Waz, way to "bump" the thread.

[RGold]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Waz- Based upon my experience, I actually think SGC was extremely strict in their grading during their initial years. I do not think there is a difference in value, not at all. Furthermore, if you try to review and bump and old SGC graded card, worst scenario is they would encapsulate it with a new holder if it did not bump...

Kevin-

A nice young man asked a question, and your three sentence response had three false statements. In fact, your response was the exact opposite of what is well known by most everyone in the hobby.

1. It is known throughout the hobby that the earliest graded SGC cards, graded by Joe Merkel and in the old "SG" holders, were overgraded by today's standards.

2. There is a difference in value. Cards in old SGC holders regularly sell for less because it is known throughout the hobby that SGC does not extend its guarantee to these cards.

3. If you want to switch a card that is in an old holder into a new holder, SGC will treat that as a crossover like it would a card from another grading company. They will not "worst scenario" just encapsulate the card into a new holder at the same grade or better.

So yes, I was, as you put it, discontent with your response. Pissed, in fact, that you couldn't give a straight and honest answer.

By the way, thank you so much for buying my many overgraded cards. I know you have a keen eye, so I appreciate that you were so kind to buy such horrible cards just to help me out. And to think, even though the cards were so overgraded, you just kept right on buying them. What a guy!

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by RGold

By the way, thank you so much for buying my many overgraded cards. I know you have a keen eye, so I appreciate that you were so kind to buy such horrible cards just to help me out. And to think, even though the cards were so overgraded, you just kept right on buying them. What a guy!

LMAO! Now that's funny.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

LMAO! Now that's funny.

Agreed