12 ½” Munsing Union Suit Baseball Player Die cut Signs – Out of Halper Collection

[CarltonHendricks]

Above is sort of a milestone acquisition for me….In the April 1987 Smithsonian magazine Barry Halper’s collection was featured…That was right around the time I was just getting going with sports antiques…Back then I would pour over the photos of his collection often…On the right side of the panoramic shot of Halper’s room you can see the Munsing baseball die cuts prominently displayed…





The Munsing pieces were sold in the Halper auction in 1999…I never made it to that earth shattering event, it was out of my league for the big dogs…I think the total everything sold for was like $23 million… Now let’s flash forward 25 years to May 2013…





http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-SET-4-1...ht_5295wt_1255
I spotted these diecuts on eBay last month….It seemed a little odd they would end up on eBay…But the listing had good clear photos of the Sotheby’s tags still attached to the back identifying them as from the Halper auction. I ended up winning them and received them this last week. I was very nervous they would arrive safely but thank the Lord they got to me fine…the seller did a good job protecting them…Once I get time I wan’t to work them into my collection so they show well…I’m into displaying die cut signs standing up the way they were originally intended, not framed like many collectors do....But for the time being I put them in some plastic sleeves. Net54 member Rhys Yeakley was kind enough to look up what they sold for in the Halper auction….$2,300.00…..I wonder what they would have been priced at if I saw them at the National...





The glove is missing on the fielder but I should be able to have it restored…I’m happy to have the same ones pictured in the Smithsonian article…To me they’re kind of iconic to his collection…I found another batter Munsing sign that is part of the set…sold in REA for $464.00 in 2006…In the description was a very interesting comment I was pleased to find…”Several of these rare signs were included in Barry Halper's famed collection and were prominently displayed in his prize showcase. It never ceased to amaze him that among the endless treasures of the Halper Collection, no one ever seemed to forget the Munsing advertising signs.”

[Jay Wolt]

Carlton Fantastic pickup and information.
Always enjoy viewing your posts!

[batsballsbases]

Carlton,
Very nice and great detective work!

[Lordstan]

Dude,
Those are incredible. How does something that old, big, and fragile survive 83 yrs in that condition? WOW.
I think you should go to jail as you stole them!
Best,
Mark

[Rickyy]

Wow Carlton those are nice...congrats!


Ricky Y

[ruth-gehrig]

Yeah those are sweet!

[mjkm90]

Fantastic Carlton I'm as surprised as you that they ended up on ebay. The seller took a real hit from the original hammer price.

[thecatspajamas]

Very nice! And just goes to show, you never know where things will turn up again. It really is surprising sometimes how you can run across the same items but in different settings, and the results are so drastically different. Congrats on another great pickup!

[Leon]

Great pick up Carlton. I was the 2nd underbidder. Those are cool looking!!

[perezfan]

Congrats Carlton! Another incredible addition to an already amazing collection.

Is this the same Munsing as in what would later become Munsingwear... best known for the Penguin logo (much like LaCoste, with the Alligator logo?)

[khkco4bls]

Guys, i picked up the larger doran photo today. also have the opportunity to buy the smaller 5 3/4x41/4 photos on cardboard backing and a pitted type of paper. He has 24 small, and 2 more doran standing with spalding bat and 3 of him catching. Check these out and give me all the opinions on these please.The quality of the photos especially the larger 7 7/8 x almost 9" are remarkable.Doran was a common one from this find and the smaller ones are all different players.

[Leon]

Actually, would be better not to hijack Carlton's thread.

Kevin- you ought to start another thread with these to solicit feedback. I don't think they are original photos and were printed later but possibly from original negatives.

[CarltonHendricks]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Congrats Carlton! Another incredible addition to an already amazing collection.

Is this the same Munsing as in what would later become Munsingwear... best known for the Penguin logo (much like LaCoste, with the Alligator logo?)

http://collections.mnhs.org/MNHistor...04p152-161.pdf
Thanks all for your kind words...Mark, yes Munsing Suits and Munsingwear were the same principle...I found a story on the Munsing concern commisioned by the Minnesota Historical Society, link above and see excerpts below.

[CarltonHendricks]

Somehow that Munsingwear story excerpt above didn't come out too well....hardly readable....I try again....link to the full story below

http://collections.mnhs.org/MNHistor...04p152-161.pdf

[Exhibitman]

Interesting price collapse over the years.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Interesting price collapse over the years.

I think 99% of the re-emerging Halper Items have experienced a "price collapse" since that sale. The Sotheby's sale occurred at the peak of the hobby's high prices. And virtually everything in that auction sold for an insanely inflated price... even at the time.

So there was nowhere to go but down (even if the economy didn't tank).

[CarltonHendricks]

This was the first Halper piece I’ve seen resurface, or at least paid any attention to…But of course I’m sure out of all those items lots of stuff must have gotten resold. I’m planning to do a feature on the Munsings at some point so have been digging for more of their history. The eBay seller got them out of a brick and mortar auction I had never heard of named Stair Auctioneers and Appraisers of Hudson N.Y. on April 26th 2013...Less than a month before I won them on eBay May 24th 2013…the seller got them for $425.00. So within a month they more than doubled in value…Good for that seller!

I don’t know the criteria to claim a price collapse but I assume one would rely on some basic appraisal science…I think to establish an estimated value of something professional independent appraisers and appraisers for auction houses use simple documented records of past prices realized for the same given item or similar items. I think it’s just a matter or averaging what an item has sold for in the past…But naturally there would be factors like scope and reach of the past auctions which would affect hammer price…that is, the kind of auction, and how hard they beat the drum, or publicized. Naturally, including an item in an auction along with other related items would usually affect the price outcome.

I’m not certain on this but I would speculate appraisers do not include eBay’s finalized prices when estimating values because of the nature of eBay. There are no catalogs or mail out lists to targeted potential bidders which brick and mortars often use, etc. Although eBay is categorized we all know bidders have to wade thru a lot of junk to make a find. Much of the time people just give up and go do something else with their time. Auction house catalogs on the other hand can be much more targeted to specific kinds of bidders and much easier to navigate and find things in.

My Munsings sold for $2,300.00 in the Halper auction in 1999. Fourteen years later they sold for $423.00 in a brick and mortar…they then sold for $898.00 a month later on eBay….And really that’s only because I happened onto and spotted them…Again, the nature of eBay is that it’s so large, serious bidders can miss stuff and a lucky bidder can score big and get a bargain…I emailed the seller I got them from and asked the viewer count, i.e. how many times the listing was viewed, but still waiting to hear back…would be interesting.

Anyone who hunts for stuff on eBay regularly knows you can’t see it all…All kinds of scenarios can prevent you from finding things…seller lists it poorly with wrong key words in the title…wrong category…doesn’t know what it is, how rare it is, out of their element….etc etc….Plus the fact everyone takes breaks….you get busy….you get burned out…you don’t go on for a while…Right now as I write this….there is probably something listed that I would get seriously excited about…but I may never even see it…because eBay is just so big you can’t see it all….

Given all that, in my opinion, to proclaim a price collapse of the Munsings would be a very large and questionable conclusion. From what I’ve read there are ill feelings about faked stuff that was allegedly in the Halper collection….and rightly so. However I would ask what percentage of the collection was misrepresented…I would speculate a small one.

I’m not interested in moving them but if I were…put them in one of the big four….REA, Hunt, Leland’s, or Legendary…where they would be in the right sports memorabilia theater…then if they didn’t do well then talk to me about a price collapse…. And speaking of sound appraisal…see the bottom photo in my initial post of this thread … a single batter from the set sold five years after the Halper auction for $464.00 in REA in 2006…

In closing I would urge discretion when discussing the value of items. Or if you don’t care to use discretion...back up what you say with valid criteria…I say this particularly since I’ve received interest from this thread to buy them even though I disclosed what I paid…

[CarltonHendricks]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_967wt_1001
MUNSINGWEAR NEWS MAGAZINE 1920 AUGUST OUTING NUMBER MINNEAPOLIS
Do you ever buy something off eBay and you don't quite know what you're getting?....I spotted this Munsingware News magazine with a $34.99 BIN or OBO...The listing gave scant little details...not even the number of pages!..For all I know could be about the company picnic..I've never seen one of these before but no way did I think it was worth $34.99...seemed like a $10 or $12 item to me...so I sent a $15.00 offer...couple days went by and last night I got an email my offer expired....WHAT? I thought...so I immediatly shot back a second offer of $16.00....Today I got the "enjoy your Munsingware Magazine" notification...I had to laugh I guess the seller got the message I didn't agree with his $34.99 estimate...Remains to be seen once I get it what exactly I bought...I figured for $16 not worth the time to ask for details, I'll just take a chance.


I think this may be the back cover...who knows


I guess this is the centerfold....Hopefully there are more pages