Saco River Auctions

[Leon]

Saco River Auctions (Troy) hasn't returned my calls, has totally blown me off and has disregarded repeated attempts at collecting the few hundred dollars they owe for advertising. Pretty pathetic in my opinion.

Edited to add, they paid today (I was on the road for 12 hours and didn't know) but I am not sure if I want them anymore as advertisers....But I was totally blown off before.....for weeks. Not cool, imo.

[kmac32]

Not worth it in my opinion.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by kmac32

Not worth it in my opinion.

I posted this in the Saco thread but will delete it and here it is.....

So here is the deal. As many on the board know I have been on vacation this week.. I was in DC and am heading back to Texas. I drove 12 hours with my family today and will drive another 12 hours to get back tomorrow. I am in a hotel as I write this right now, half way home in Lebanon TN.

I have sent Troy repeated invoices for his (2) $200 payments he owed. He had not paid them. I called his office. His secretary answered and I asked for him. She asked who is it, I said my name. She said hold on a minute, came back and said he isn't in. A total screen out.....(I have been in sales for 25 yrs, I get it). I left my name and he never called back. I turn on my computer tonight and I have 6 PMs from the idiots fighting. I look at the front page and see the Saco thread.....I get pissed. I posted my thread about them being deadbeat payers. Then I look at my 40'ish emails I got today and one was from Troy saying he paid and wants his banner back up. I dunno....
__________________

[Exhibitman]

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

Life is too short to do business with irresponsible a-holes. The few times I've had to kick a client to the curb for not paying my bills it has been completely worth it.

[bobbyw8469]

I hope you had a good vacation Leon. Did you checkout the Smithsonian?

[Texxxx]

He paid just to put up the post. I bet he want pay again until he needs to post again. I say don't let it get that far.
Life's to short to have to put up with those type of people.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Texxxx

He paid just to put up the post. I bet he want pay again until he needs to post again. I say don't let it get that far.
Life's to short to have to put up with those type of people.

I hear ya Texxxx.....and I want to be careful to be extremely correct in what I say concerning this....here is the chronological order...

__________________________________________________ __________________
May 5 2014 - sent Paypal invoice for $200 - due on receipt (never paid) and history of it

Date and Time Invoice history

May 5, 2014 9:07 AM Invoice created
May 5, 2014 9:07 AM Invoice sent
May 27, 2014 9:20 AM Reminder sent
June 4, 2014 8:46 AM Reminder sent
June 6, 2014 10:50 AM Reminder sent


June 4 2014 - sent Paypal invoice for $200 Due on receipt (paid) ...I thought great maybe he just missed the May one...

July 2 2014 Sent paypal invoice for $400 due on receipt (included the May invoice and I said so on the invoice) see below

Date and Time Invoice history

July 2, 2014 12:45 PM Invoice created
July 2, 2014 12:45 PM Invoice sent
July 10, 2014 11:27 AM Reminder sent
July 25, 2014 8:21 AM Invoice paid by recipient with PayPal ($400)


I sent this email after no response to the July paypal invoice-


From: leon luckey [mailto:leonl@flash.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 1:38 PM
To: 'Saco River Auction Company'
Subject: RE: New Account

Hey Troy
Hope all is well for you today. I left a message with your secretary too. I am writing concerning your banner ad on Net54baseball. I seem to be not getting a response from the email invoices I have sent. I am easy. If there is an issue let me know. If you prefer not to advertise anymore, no worries, just let me know. I hope you will continue and think it’s a great value but if it isn’t helping I understand. I won’t even charge you for what is owed but just let me know and I will help any way I can.
Thanks
leon


Then I saw the thread Troy started, this evening. Nothing in between....

[wonkaticket]

Guy should have paid, and not avoided you I agree. However just a thought....playing devils advocate.

How about taking down his ad, locking his log in until he pays quietly behind the scenes. The public tar and feather seems over the top Leon.

Cheers,

John

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Guy should have paid, and not avoided you I agree. However just a thought....playing devils advocate.

How about taking down his ad, locking his log in until he pays quietly behind the scenes. The public tar and feather seems over the top Leon.

Cheers,

John

I don't think it's over the top John. I think it took some audacity for him to post the thread after all of my repeated attempts at contacting him for payment. I actually think it was kind of a douchy thing for him to do, but that is just me. I have been wrong before, maybe I am this time too? But I respect your opinion.

thanks
leon

[oldjudge]

Leon--are you saying that the only way an auction can post a thread is if they pay? I thought the pay was for the banner ad, not for the right to post. Can't anyone post anything, as long as it relates to vintage cards?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Leon--are you saying that the only way an auction can post a thread is if they pay? I thought the pay was for the banner ad, not for the right to post. Can't anyone post anything, as long as it relates to vintage cards?

Jay- Advertising threads on the front page are one of the things that are charged for in some cases. If you are interested I can send you an advertising fact sheet. I doubt anyone would want to have unlimited posting of advertisements on the front page. There is a BST page for posting auction announcements and sales. I think you and I have been over this before.

I should add that any company or person can post anything they want to on the front page, that is about vintage cards. This issue pertains to ads and sales only.

[oldjudge]

Fair enough--thanks!

[chris6net]

As someone who is only a collector and mainly lurks on this board(even though I met Bruce D at a show 30 years ago and always stood up for him and was a friend of his RIP) I am always leery of someone who does not pay on time and would not do business with them again.
CN

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by chris6net

As someone who is only a collector and mainly lurks on this board(even though I met Bruce D at a show 30 years ago and always stood up for him and was a friend of his RIP) I am always leery of someone who does not pay on time and would not do business with them again.
CN

Absolutely my feelings also. It shows character or lack there of. If you do not pay your bills in a timely fashion then how can you trust them in any financial transaction?

Kmac

[ruth-gehrig]

Make him prepay in full for any future advertising if you want to continue doing business with him. Sort of like those prepaid credit cards. Their thought is "yeah I still want your business (and money) but I don't want to get screwed in the process"

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by Leon

as I write this right now, half way home in Lebanon TN.

Well shit Leon, if I'd known you were stopping in my Podunk hometown I would have bought dinner or least scotch.

[drcy]

I've never read the advertising rules or advertised, but through observation of the board know that it's a rule that an auction house can't post about their auctions on the front page if they don't have a banner. Auction houses have tried before and were advised to buy a banner. Once they have a banner they can post news and updates about their auctions.

As Leon once stated, the idea is it's unfair to the people who buy banners if auction houses can simply advertise for free by starting threads.

So I can testify that isn't a new rule.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Having to wait for 2 months to be paid is bad enough, but the lack of communication would make me question a future business relationship.

Just my 2¢.

Jeff G@rf!nke!

[Texxxx]

John
As a business owner for over 30 years, I totally believe in tar and feathering people that knowingly dont pay there bills. Mistakes happen but it is had to call this a mistake by Troy.

[autograf]

If you can't pay on time for months already rendered, you go on a three months ahead basis. You don't pay, your upcoming three months are shut down.

[iwantitiwinit]

If he wants to advertise with you I'd say fine but he has to be at least 2 months paid in full in advance. If he values the advertising that shouldn't be a problem especially since it's only 200/month. If he argues dump him and don't give it a second thought.

[Exhibitman]

The timeline of events is most persuasive as far as I am concerned. Seems pretty clear that Saco had no intention of paying for the advertising unless/until it needed to pimp the next auction. I HATE doing business with auctioneers who take their sweet time paying consignors and sending out items, so I am not impressed by an AH that can't be bothered to pay a piddling bill for months on end; what does that say about that AH's attitude towards handling business transactions? Business should be conducted in a business-like manner.

I also agree 100% with not allowing an AH that doesn't have a banner to have a free run at pimping its services on the main page. That's just not right. When my partners and I were contemplating our first card show we did not think of pushing the show here without also advertising, and we were offering a free gathering for the N54 members to enjoy [sure as hell wasn't a money-maker...].

ETA: after seeing Saco's response, WTF???

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The timeline of events is most persuasive as far as I am concerned. Seems pretty clear that Saco had no intention of paying for the advertising unless/until it needed to pimp the next auction. I HATE doing business with auctioneers who take their sweet time paying consignors and sending out items, so I am not impressed by an AH that can't be bothered to pay a piddling bill for months on end; what does that say about that AH's attitude towards handling business transactions? Business should be conducted in a business-like manner.

I also agree 100% with not allowing an AH that doesn't have a banner to have a free run at pimping its services on the main page. That's just not right. When my partners and I were contemplating our first card show we did not think of pushing the show here without also advertising, and we were offering a free gathering for the N54 members to enjoy [sure as hell wasn't a money-maker...].

Troy has emailed saying I am wrong on some accounts. I told him to prove it and I will retract and publicly apologize. But I will be on the road again for the rest of the day in about an hour or two. He said I am crazy (I can agree with that) and he was on vacation for 3 weeks. He said he paid his bills. Unless Paypal is wrong I don't see it. For the record I had already blown off this 400 and was just chalking it up, until I saw his thread he posted. It really wasn't that big of a deal.....just another (though very first advertiser) non paying person in life. It wasn't worth my time.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Well shit Leon, if I'd known you were stopping in my Podunk hometown I would have bought dinner or least scotch.

Steve
My wife says you don't know Podunk, she is from Podunk. Her town has one stop light.

[joeadcock]

Leon

Believe the best way of dealing with this would be in private and away from others eyes(FOR THE MOST PART).

In my career, many do not pay for services I have already done. Even after I have taken liability on those same services. Have had many say incorrect, slanderous, lieing, idiotic, to the depth comments. I deal with it in private.

Difference here in that you are trying to protect we who speak, buy, and sell on this forum. This is what I meant by "FOR THE MOST PART" above. You have license to expose publicly because of this role you have. You have also obviously waited and removed benefit of the doubt before doing this.

However, I tend to follow with John, I would keep it out of the limelite. If I were to publicly expose, I would be very brief, to the point and factual(no personal feeling) . This is simply my opinion. But as I have been through a lot of inappropriate, immature, ungodly people and what they spewed at me, I choose that route.

This is why I am not interested when forum members start attacking or acting inappropriately on this forum. Dont get anything out of it.

I DO respect how you handle situations.

God with you.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by joeadcock

Leon

Believe the best way of dealing with this would be in private and away from others eyes(FOR THE MOST PART).

In my career, many do not pay for services I have already done. Even after I have taken liability on those same services. Have had many say incorrect, slanderous, lieing, idiotic, to the depth comments. I deal with it in private.

Difference here in that you are trying to protect we who speak, buy, and sell on this forum. This is what I meant by "FOR THE MOST PART" above. You have license to expose publicly because of this role you have. You have also obviously waited and removed benefit of the doubt before doing this.

However, I tend to follow with John, I would keep it out of the limelite. If I were to publicly expose, I would be very brief, to the point and factual(no personal feeling) . This is simply my opinion. But as I have been through a lot of inappropriate, immature, ungodly people and what they spewed at me, I choose that route.

This is why I am not interested when forum members start attacking or acting inappropriately on this forum. Dont get anything out of it.

I DO respect how you handle situations.

God with you.

And for the most part I agree. Had I said anything before this? No, I just let it go....

and btw, anyone in the world can expose almost anything publicly here if they put their name next to it. It happens almost every day....this isn't limited to me or another moderator...and lastly, but not least , thank you for your kind words, they are appreciated very much.

[majordanby]

However, I tend to follow with John, I would keep it out of the limelite. If I were to publicly expose, I would be very brief, to the point and factual(no personal feeling) . This is simply my opinion. But as I have been through a lot of inappropriate, immature, ungodly people and what they spewed at me, I choose that route.

wise words. especially in these days with the internet when every tom, dick and harry comes out of the woodwork to say and do some of the most ignorant things because they can stay relatively anonymous behind a computer screen.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by majordanby

wise words. especially in these days with the internet when every tom, dick and harry comes out of the woodwork to say and do some of the most ignorant things because they can stay relatively anonymous behind a computer screen.

They won't stay anonymous on this forum. Again, I wasn't saying anything and just let it go originally..

[calvindog]

Jesus, Leon, you get as angry as I do when I get a bounced check from a client!

I'm just glad Saco didn't engage in massive fraud in their auctions, I bet you'd get really mad!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Jesus, Leon, you get as angry as I do when I get a bounced check from a client!

I'm just glad Saco didn't engage in massive fraud in their auctions, I bet you'd get really mad!

I would get mad Jeff, especially after it's proven.

[Paul S]

Leon, I hope your wife is behind the wheel right now

[Wite3]

I think it speak volumes that Troy and Saco has not said one word in this thread...

Joshua

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by Wite3

I think it speak volumes that Troy and Saco has not said one word in this thread...

Joshua

Yeah, agreed

[lug-nut]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

If he wants to advertise with you I'd say fine but he has to be at least 2 months paid in full in advance. If he values the advertising that shouldn't be a problem especially since it's only 200/month. If he argues dump him and don't give it a second thought.

i kinda agree but one month is fine by me...once he has shown a continuous string of months of paying on time (1 year+) i'd consider letting him back to normal with a short leash...it was bad business on his part and Leon was more than grateful to allow to to go so long.

[Saco River Auction]

First off I am normally not in favor of posting private business matters on a public board, but I am going to make an exception in this case. I read through this garbage comment by comment and am shocked that smart professional card collectors would attack so quickly only having half of the story. I just received an email through the anonymous feedback link on this site calling me an overpaid asshole. Shame on you juvenile people who hide behind "anonymous" coward links!!

The facts are this. I owed Leon for the month of July only! Below you will see paypal transaction ID's for Feb-June paid in full $200 per month. July was my fault as family matters and vacations kept me out of the office for a majority of the month. As you will see by the transaction log, I was 25 days late on the July payment. Actually Leon was so pissed with his perception that we were dodging a $200 payment that he never posted a July ad. I worked about 3 full days in July and had many irons in the fire and for that I am sorry. When I arrived at work on July 25 I went through my emails and paid the $400 bucks he was looking for without question. Now it seems I did not even owe the $400 bucks and probably owed nothing in all actuality.

Leon saw that I had paid and then went on a terrible rant about my character and tried to ruin the companies image. Last time I fork over $400 and get a response like that!

Here is the Paypal Transactions copied from their site which show my dealings with Leon:
Transaction ID: 69U50887AC809604X February 2014 $200 Made on Jan 29
Transaction ID: 12771193NK844792D March 2014 $200 Made on March 6
Transaction ID: 848817262D135072N April 2014 $200 Made On April 2
Transaction ID: 917817262DMT18509N May 2014 $200 Made on May 9
Transaction ID: 5UN51446X5442184X June 2014 $200 Made on June 4
Transaction ID: 3N530579HR740145D July 2014 and Whatever Else He thinks I owe Him $400 Made on July 25th


So some of you called me out, some of you joined in the attack, but none of you can say that you had trouble with SRA. We have worked hard to bring fresh exciting stuff to the market. We have given excellent customer service and free shipping on any item over $5000 even though we are not required. We have been open and honest about our items provenance and promotion, yet the first time someone complains about us in this forum it is taken as the gospel truth.

This site is supposed to be about sharing quality information about card collecting, not a shark attack. It seems that every time there in one drop of blood in the water many of you pounce. This is not what this business is about or this site.

Leon has now sent me a message which says he doesn't think he wants me as a customer anymore. Wow, good business decision Leon! We spend almost $10,000 per month on advertising nationwide its a shame you don't want some of that.

[calvindog]

Oopsie.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Texxxx

John
As a business owner for over 30 years, I totally believe in tar and feathering people that knowingly dont pay there bills. Mistakes happen but it is had to call this a mistake by Troy.

Bruce as fellow business owner I respectfully disagree.

I fail to see any value in airing dirty laundry or internal drama publicly. I like the board and respect Leon's rules and it's his place now. However that doesn't mean I need to pile on and agree with everything Leon says or does. I think Leon would agree with this.

I do think this could have been handled quietly and off the board with the same results or better results. In the end it's not my board and not my business so Leon can do as he pleases, just added an outside view for perspective.

Cheers,

John

[JasonD08]

+1 to what John just said. Personal issues should be handled privately and not unfairly poured over a forum you have total control of. While I feel it is appropriate to out someone who may be in danger of hurting others (in warning) either financially or physically, this was a personal business transaction and should not have been charged up publicly.

Jason

[pencil1974]

Yeah I agree with Wonka on this one. As a business owner myself too we are usually paid 30-60 days after our designs and ads have already been delivered. I guess since its a few hundred dollars I just look at that as too small of potatoes to get in a huffing match over. Just my opinion.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by pencil1974

Yeah I agree with Wonka on this one. As a business owner myself too we are usually paid 30-60 days after our designs and ads have already been delivered. I guess since its a few hundred dollars I just look at that as too small of potatoes to get in a huffing match over. Just my opinion.

Brad, you've got to come work for me! I'll pay you in cards.

Right now I work with the biggest names in retail.....oh how I would love to be paid in 30-60 days.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

However that doesn't mean I need to pile on and agree with everything Leon says or does. I think Leon would agree with this.
Cheers,

John

So you disagree with him and he agrees with you? This is getting too metaphysical for me.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So you disagree with him and he agrees with you? This is getting too metaphysical for me.

I know deep right?

[Runscott]

Geez Troy. You are supposedly representing an auction house that is supposed to be a big deal - hire a secretary if you are too busy posting on forums to read email or return phone calls.

Any good businessman knows that checking emails and voicemail is critical.

[Sean1125]

Nevermind

[wonkaticket]

Sean, why edit it away? You felt the need to pile on another businessman and call him a "sleeze". I'm sure that will translate to business for you in some way.

[Texxxx]

As far as this situation I will back off my comments. I took Leon words as the truth. To comment about it anymore would require me seeing all the facts.

As far as my opinion about publicly outing people that want pay there bill, I will continue to be on the side that says it should be done. I guess if my bills that go out where for $200-$300 it wouldn't mean much but I have single bills of $4000 - $30000 for one to two days of work. When someone fails to pay it makes me upset. If I can keep other people from losing money by spreading the word then I will. This happens all the time in my business. I know a lot of related business that has a lot of the customers as I do. We all know who want pay and we stay away from them. I understand other types of business may need to run another way. I just looked it up. I have a .005% loss rate from non payers. Show me another business model that can beat that and I will be glad to change the way I do business.

Bruce Carter

[Wite3]

Thanks for coming on Troy and I am glad we got to see and "hear" your side of the story.

Joshua

PS I agree with John about Sean's comment...sheesh!

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Geez Troy. You are supposedly representing an auction house that is supposed to be a big deal - hire a secretary if you are too busy posting on forums to read email or return phone calls.

Any good businessman knows that checking emails and voicemail is critical.

Paragon, anyone?

[Leon]

Guys-
Thanks for all of the feedback. First things first. I am going to get with Troy and have him look into the payment he says he sent on May 9th. It is still an open invoice and was never paid. It is provable so that isn't an issue. Between May 4th and May 11th I received no money from anyone. If Troy, Jeff, John or anyone else wants to see my paypal account I will gladly change the password, have us login, then change it back, to prove it. Also, if anyone doesn't know, once an invoice is paid you can't send a reminder, that option goes away. After that, we can go from there....I don't think Troy is a bad guy but some things are still not explainable. I mean, if I got 3 reminders, a phone call and an email, to something I already paid, I would go ahead and let that person know it was paid and show them where I paid. But that is just me. I understand Troy has had some personal family issues so I do understand how these things can take a back seat to more important things in life. Also, for the record the Saco banner was up until the 15th of this month....but with at least 5 attempts at getting payment, but to no avail, I had Brian take it down. I have those emails too....Thanks to thosee who believed me. Every single thing I said is true and I will gladly prove it to anyone and everyone.

ps...all of the other payments were made and verified......though a few took a few days to post..and I am going to lock this thread while Troy and I get this worked out. After that I might move it to another area because I don't think anything was done intentionally......