vintage Ruth wire photos

[billyb]

I am a new member and was told this is best site for information. What is value of Ruth wire photo, type 1 or 2, non uniform. Have good size collection, inherited, so know very little, but trying to find out an approx. value for the non-uniform pictured photos. I will post one for viewing.

[Runscott]

Well, if mine sells we'll have a better idea

[prewarsports]

Depends on the year, condition, subject matter etc. I have sold some for as little as $25 and some for as high as $400 with most being at the lower end if they look like the ones you posted (later career etc).

I can give a better idea if you want to send scans to my e mail or post them on here.

Rhys

themodo@hotmail.com

[billyb]

Rhys,
Thanx for the info Rhys. Not good info, but know where I stand. The collection is in excellant condition, have about thirty or so which appear to be used for printing. They have no backing, but are stamped on back, and have the crop marks on front. I am assuming the same situation with them, condition and content?

billyb

[mybestbretts]

Glad you came over here. I think keeping in contact with Henry is the
way to go. I have noticed that the photos that have been authenticated by PSA seem to be bringing more money. Subject matter is key for top dollar,
that is for sure.
Again, good luck to you.
Bestsandy

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by mybestbretts

Glad you came over here. I think keeping in contact with Henry is the
way to go. I have noticed that the photos that have been authenticated by PSA seem to be bringing more money. Subject matter is key for top dollar,
that is for sure.
Again, good luck to you.
Bestsandy

Yep, if you are buying them to sell, many of the photo collectors here seem to require PSA/Henry's approval; otherwise, they have little faith in what they are buying. Not sure what folks did with photos prior to that

What you'll find though, if you are planning to keep them, is that there are plenty of experts right here in this forum who can provide all the assistance you need - in fact, probably more.

[billyb]

Hey Best,
Yea I finally got over here for input, but I screwed first post up and put in wrong back to first photo.
As I said before, I am on vacation and away from my computer, but this vacation not starting too well.
Our last conversations was about our age, well, I had gall bladder attack and had to have it removed, so have been away for several days. Had lots of views on my original post, but not many replys, but I did not have the back to the one photo I posted.
So decided to post the second one.
I did take your advise, and have contacted Henry Yee, and at first of year he wants us to send him 10-20 of the copies, front and back.
So far it seems the non uniform Ruths are not doing too well at the auctions. But will have to find out how many originals we have, if any. I am hoping of the 30-40 editors cropped photos, myybe have some originals in there.

[billyb]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Yep, if you are buying them to sell, many of the photo collectors here seem to require PSA/Henry's approval; otherwise, they have little faith in what they are buying. Not sure what folks did with photos prior to that

What you'll find though, if you are planning to keep them, is that there are plenty of experts right here in this forum who can provide all the assistance you need - in fact, probably more.

Thank you Scott,
This seems to be a very good site. I have no doubt thises wire photos being legit because of how we came upon these photos. An uncle of the owner of these photos passed away and 17 years prior, he was given this collection by a friend who work for a major city newpaper. This uncle was a great uncle, so old enough to be interested in Ruth, even though not a sports memorbilia collector. But a hundred photos at $50 apiece is a large expense for authentication.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by billyb

Thank you Scott,
This seems to be a very good site. I have no doubt thises wire photos being legit because of how we came upon these photos. An uncle of the owner of these photos passed away and 17 years prior, he was given this collection by a friend who work for a major city newpaper. This uncle was a great uncle, so old enough to be interested in Ruth, even though not a sports memorbilia collector. But a hundred photos at $50 apiece is a large expense for authentication.

'Legit' can mean a lot of different things when it comes to photos - you have to look at the quality of the image, the paper, the printing technique, the back.

Guys like Henry and a few of the folks you'll meet here, can certainly help you learn how to do that yourself - it's just a matter of handling a lot of photos and having an 'eye' for it. Some have such an 'eye', some don't - it's not a bad thing if you don't. I haven't met anyone here yet, who offered bad advice with regards to photos - they either offer no advice, or good advice.

But I can't see ever sending photos anywhere to have them authenticated, unless it's very cheap or free. I've seen plenty of authentication mistakes from the slabbers, but very rarely by any of the people I have been discussing vintage photos with for over a decade.

And if you are worried about re-sell value, just consign them raw to Henry. I can promise you that he gets the best prices of anyone - there are many board members here who buy from him, and don't trust any photo unless they acquire it from Henry, or it's slabbed.

[billyb]

Originally Posted by Runscott

'Legit' can mean a lot of different things when it comes to photos - you have to look at the quality of the image, the paper, the printing technique, the back.

Guys like Henry and a few of the folks you'll meet here, can certainly help you learn how to do that yourself - it's just a matter of handling a lot of photos and having an 'eye' for it. Some have such an 'eye', some don't - it's not a bad thing if you don't. I haven't met anyone here yet, who offered bad advice with regards to photos - they either offer no advice, or good advice.

But I can't see ever sending photos anywhere to have them authenticated, unless it's very cheap or free. I've seen plenty of authentication mistakes from the slabbers, but very rarely by any of the people I have been discussing vintage photos with for over a decade.

And if you are worried about re-sell value, just consign them raw to Henry. I can promise you that he gets the best prices of anyone - there are many board members here who buy from him, and don't trust any photo unless they acquire it from Henry, or it's slabbed.

Thanx again Scott,
As I said before, I am not a collector or a dealer, but everyone seems to lead me toward Henry, which I am going to do.
The two I have posted were just two picked out at random, and still had the plastic sleeve over the picture when copied. Family will gather during holidays and discuss whether to sell or not, but who knows how long these wire photos will stay hot. So I do believe they are going to sell. I have some contacts in the sport card business, that is the only reason Iam testing the market for the owner (a cousin) Just getting imput on these photos so they have some information when comes time for decision. That is why I appreciate all imput I get from everyone.
The family just came into possession of them several months ago, but never checked what they had until they mentioned these photos to me. I did not know about them either, but I knew who to go to to get an understanding about them. It is a little overwheming for them and a decision of when to sell will be somewhat slow, I think they want to hold onto them for a couple more months, just to admire them before letting them go.

billyb

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by billyb

Thanx again Scott,
As I said before, I am not a collector or a dealer, but everyone seems to lead me toward Henry, which I am going to do.
billyb

For selling, certainly - he's figured out how to get top dollar. This thread got me to thinking about collector knowledge when it comes to photos. It's always been curious to me that anyone could collect something without having the skills to determine if the items are legit, but you see it all the time, especially with autographs, and also, amazingly, with photographs. If they aren't in plastic, they aren't real. People missing out on great deals that they could take advantage of if they'd educate themselves more, and lose the dependence on 3rd-party authenticators.

It's very refreshing to see auction houses like Lelands, who you know are selling primarily to knowledgeable collectors. 'See' some of you tomorrow night

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by billyb

Thanx again Scott,
As I said before, I am not a collector or a dealer, but everyone seems to lead me toward Henry, which I am going to do.
The two I have posted were just two picked out at random, and still had the plastic sleeve over the picture when copied. Family will gather during holidays and discuss whether to sell or not, but who knows how long these wire photos will stay hot. So I do believe they are going to sell. I have some contacts in the sport card business, that is the only reason Iam testing the market for the owner (a cousin) Just getting imput on these photos so they have some information when comes time for decision. That is why I appreciate all imput I get from everyone.
The family just came into possession of them several months ago, but never checked what they had until they mentioned these photos to me. I did not know about them either, but I knew who to go to to get an understanding about them. It is a little overwheming for them and a decision of when to sell will be somewhat slow, I think they want to hold onto them for a couple more months, just to admire them before letting them go.

billyb

Billy... with these sort of photos I would definitely go with HYEE. There are reasons why everyone tells you to go to him. Good luck with your family's collection!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

Billy... with these sort of photos I would definitely go with HYEE. There are reasons why everyone tells you to go to him. Good luck with your family's collection!

Ben, I certainly understand why you would send your photos to Henry. He can tell you if they are real or not. But you are also welcome to post your questions here, and myself and others will be more than happy to help educate you.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Ben, I certainly understand why you would send your photos to Henry. He can tell you if they are real or not. But you are also welcome to post your questions here, and myself and others will be more than happy to help educate you.

Here we go again... You gotta make this thread personal too?? Runscott, I am not going to get in a peeing match over photos with you. Because, quite frankly.. I gotta work and simply, would be no competition( I am pretty sure most everyone in this area of the hobby would agree). I know it is hard for you to see others get into and excel in a sector of the hobby that you once THOUGHT you were relavent in.
The fact is, you never were and surely are not now.

As far as slabbed photos go. There is a place just like in cards as it is very very hard to determine by scans online. The paper, how it responds under a black light, how the photo looks under a loop(picture and paper fibers), the stamps ect cannot be done by a scan.
Those who think they can magically tell, are out of their minds. I will let you think of who that may be.

Now.. one thing Henry Yee has done over countless hours of research is catalog stamps. Which has helped in determining photos online but now crooks are counterfeiting those. This single thing that couldn’t be found doing google searches, was huge. The ones who state they know what they are doing have used his research whether they want to admit it or not.

Do I know everything? No I do not and have made many mistakes(even this year).. but know quite a bit. Have a nice day runscott LESS DRAMA PLEASE

[drc]

The photos posted at the start of this thread were original and/or vintage. If the others are like those, the poster doesn't need to get LOAs. However, if he wishes to consign them to some them for auction, I can understand that. If you have 30 original Ruth photos, a lot of good auction houses would be interested.

Over the years a lot of collectors have asked me about press photos on eBay. They're very interested in a particular one on eBay, but aren't photo collectors and don't know how you can tell if a photo is new or old, original or reprint. So I can understand how a PSA LOA can add $$ to final auction price.

Though I agree with Scott's points about if you're knowledgeable you don't have to pay extra for a LOA and can find hidden deals. And a lot of the knowledge required to identify press photos isn't rocket science, just having done your homework.

There are many areas of collecting I'm not knowledgeable about (I know, hard to believe), so I'm not suggesting I would never buy an item because it came with a third party opinion. If I was buying a Ming vase, I most definitely would like a third party opinion from an expert in that field.

I always use Ming vases as the example as they're expensive, rare and I nothing about them. For a long while I assumed Ming was the sound you they made when you taped them with your fingernail . . . But I'm going to get some books and by next year I'll be mocking all your ignorance about Ming vases.

[Shoeless Moe]

Ben, not to be a d-ck, but I'm confused on this thread you state "Go with Hank Yee", but in the other HYEE thread for pickups, you compliment people on getting them at great prices.

That kinda conflicts don't you think.

If peep are getting them at great prices not sure u'd want to go with HYEE, yes I know he gets lots of exposure, thus increasing the chance for a higher take, but if u are giving some dollars to Ebay, some to Paypal, some to PSA to grade/Encaps, and some to HYEE to list, seems like u be better off going with an auction house, so u don't have to go through PSA or sell them yourself on EBAY with BIN.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Ben, not to be a d-ck, but I'm confused on this thread you state "Go with Hank Yee", but in the other HYEE thread for pickups, you compliment people on getting them at great prices.

That kinda conflicts don't you think.

If peep are getting them at great prices not sure u'd want to go with HYEE, yes I know he gets lots of exposure, thus increasing the chance for a higher take, but if u are giving some dollars to Ebay, some to Paypal, some to PSA to grade/Encaps, and some to HYEE to list, seems like u be better off going with an auction house, so u don't have to go through PSA or sell them yourself on EBAY with BIN.

I hope that I'm not stepping on Ben's toes with this response, but I think if you look at any major auction, be it auction house or individual, on eBay or otherwise, you can pick and choose and find high and low water marks for different items. Henry Yee's auctions are no different: there will always be some "good deals" had among the 1000+ lots offered. (I know of at least 2 instances where the very photo that I sold previously turned up in one of his auctions and wound up selling for less than I had gotten for it). The difference I think is that, if you averaged out all of those prices over the entire auction, in the category of sports photographs in particular you will see a much higher average than typically realized through any of the auction houses.

The difference between Yee and a major auction house in the category of photos is the attention to detail he gives with his descriptions, his knowledge of the subject matter, and his willingness to offer them as individuals or small groups with the same attention that most auction houses would reserve for their "key" photo offerings. Typically when you see photos offered through an auction house, you will see a few scattered individual photos that may or may not have very detailed descriptions, and then a handful of "lots" of photos with generalized semi-boilerplate descriptions that don't give a full (or often accurate) depiction of the photos included. In a group of 30 "vintage photos" you may see front scans of 5-10 of them, MAYBE a back scan of 1 or 2 (if you're lucky), and a generalized description giving a range of decades represented, the Hall of Famers appearing in them, and throwing around terms like "wire photo," "original," "Type 1," "vintage", etc with varying degrees of accuracy. How they can expect to get top dollar for a lot of photos and not show most of them is beyond me.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like it when auction houses fumble with their handling of large lots of photos like this as long as I'm on the buying end. That's where I like to pick them up to re-sell individually, because that's what I do. If I were consigning though and wanted to get the most bang for my commission buck, I would be much more likely to go with Henry. I don't know how many times I've said to myself (as I'm entering a bid with an auction house), "Man, I would be ticked if it were my collection being presented this way." I've never found myself saying that with Henry's offerings. More often with him it's, "Man, I would love to have that, but I can't afford to keep it and I would just lose money trying to flip it."

[drc]

Reminds me of when an eBay auction winner posted feedback for me that said "Excellent seller and low prices!" I thought "Thanks, but low prices wasn't my intent."

[glchen]

Scott, David, and Ben, especially, have helped me tremendously in regards to my recent foray into photos, so I really hope that Scott and Ben can get along. I will also put in a good word for Henry Yee. I've chatted with him, and he's really one of the nicest guys I've ever met in the hobby. And he's helped me also in learning more about photos.

You would have to ask Henry, but just because you consign w/ him, I don't think that means that you have to have your photos authenticated by PSA/DNA. If you have some lower value photos such as Ruth that are not in uniform, then he may be able to just put original photo in the ebay listing, but potential buyers could interpret as likely to be Type I. Only those higher value photos of Ruth in uniform would be worth full authentication by PSA/DNA. Obviously, I do not want to put words into Henry's mouth, so you would have to discuss w/ Henry the best way to sell your photos.

Since Henry's auctions are on ebay and start at 99cents with no reserve, there is always the chance that some photos will do exceptionally well, and some will between the cracks and not do so well. However, for photo auctions, if anyone will give your photos the best chance to have maximum value, it would be Henry's auctions, IMHO.

[drc]

...

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by glchen

You would have to ask Henry, but just because you consign w/ him, I don't think that means that you have to have your photos authenticated by PSA/DNA. If you have some lower value photos such as Ruth that are not in uniform, then he may be able to just put original photo in the ebay listing, but potential buyers could interpret as likely to be Type I. Only those higher value photos of Ruth in uniform would be worth full authentication by PSA/DNA. Obviously, I do not want to put words into Henry's mouth, so you would have to discuss w/ Henry the best way to sell your photos.

For those who don't know, Henry (along with Marshall Fogel) defined the Type classification system as it is currently used by PSA. He was stating photos to be Type 1, Type 2, etc. in his auction listings long before PSA started slabbing photos. He and Fogel are also the principals doing PSA's photo identification for them (though they may have other help at this point, others may chime in with more specific knowledge of the current set-up). Glancing through his most recent completed auction listings, you will see many in which he gives all the same details that would appear on a PSA flip or LOA, but without evidence of any paid authentication, so I certainly do not think he requires the photos to be slabbed or stickered by PSA in order to sell them.

[billyb]

Wow,
I had two day travel on my vacation and viewing my responses for first time and I am sorry if I had started anything. After reviewing these responses and really trying to understand each others views, I have learned one thing for sure. Even though there are different opinions, I know that I have got responses from some of the best collectors in the business. Nobody twisted your arms to give your views, you all gave me information without asking for anything in return. I believe, no I know, I am getting the very best advice from a group of professional collectors. Professionals who are passionate about the business of collecting sports artifacts. Sure money in the tools that keeps you all going in your chosen profession/hobby. But if money was not the key, I bet you all would still be trading and selling for the enjoyment.
So I hope this thread did not start any bad blood between anyone, You all are too experienced, and professional to at least not respect each other a little. You all have earned that respect, I know you have that respect from me.

Billyb

[Leon]

Originally Posted by billyb

Wow,
I had two day travel on my vacation and viewing my responses for first time and I am sorry if I had started anything. After reviewing these responses and really trying to understand each others views, I have learned one thing for sure. Even though there are different opinions, I know that I have got responses from some of the best collectors in the business. Nobody twisted your arms to give your views, you all gave me information without asking for anything in return. I believe, no I know, I am getting the very best advice from a group of professional collectors. Professionals who are passionate about the business of collecting sports artifacts. Sure money in the tools that keeps you all going in your chosen profession/hobby. But if money was not the key, I bet you all would still be trading and selling for the enjoyment.
So I hope this thread did not start any bad blood between anyone, You all are too experienced, and professional to at least not respect each other a little. You all have earned that respect, I know you have that respect from me.

Billyb

Hi Billyb
You are a smart person and you didn't cause anymore angst than we normally have. Consider us one big family, a bit dysfunctional, but at the end of the day we are all friends and mostly here for each other. We bicker over stuff, and argue, but it's all in the name of collecting and the hobby. We are a passionate bunch. I got some PMs (private messages) concerning this thread and it seems everyone is getting along fine now. There is no doubt Henry is one of the top photo experts around and also no doubt that many auction houses also do well with photos. take care and happy holidays!!

[drc]

Billyb's posts and questions were perfectly legitimate. Not a thing wrong with them. I'm sure even the 'fighters' Ben and Scott would agree.

If you have any questions about your photos and auctioning them, you can contact me via Net54 PM. I'll be happy to give advice. As I said, they appear legitimate and numerous places would be interested in them.

In fact you could post some on the B/S/T section here and see how they sell.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by drc

Billyb's posts and questions were perfectly legitimate. Not a thing wrong with them. I'm sure even the 'fighters' Ben and Scott would agree.

If you have any questions about your photos and auctioning them, you can contact me via Net54 PM. I'll be happy to give advice. As I said, they appear legitimate and numerous places would be interested in them.

To prevent my own angst, I'm not going to read any of the above posting since I left this thread - only entered it again because I saw that David had posted, but....

Ben and I had a long and very pleasant phone conversation the other day. My apologies for my part in the bickering, both to Ben and to those who read it. Ben understands my reasons for getting upset, and I understand his. I'm sure we'll both be more sensitive to those buttons from now on, and I sincerely look forward to having some great conversations with Ben in the future.

Ben is VERY knowledgeable concerning photos, as are a number of our board members. Ask them questions - they'll respond.

[drc]

For the record, just because Scott and I are friends and live near each other doesn't mean I always agree with him.

When we first met we discovered with distaste that he's a Cowboys fan and I'm a Packers fan. He's a Confederate Civil War buff from Texas, and I'm a pure bred Northerner. When he told his history of the Civil War I said "That's curious. I was under the impression the North won."

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by drc

For the record, just because Scott and I are friends and live near each other doesn't mean I always agree with him.

So you've been lying to me?

[drc]

It's called being polite.

[mybestbretts]

Again, good luck to you. You have found the right place for help.
Sandy

[billyb]

Originally Posted by mybestbretts

Again, good luck to you. You have found the right place for help.
Sandy

Sandy,
I agree with you, this is the right place. digging into the depth of all the messages, I knew they were more than experts in their field. True professionalism is the title.
I hope to post one more photo, this time of one of the editors copies, if my cousin ever reads his email. I read another thread which involved these editors copies. Scott, you and the others within that thread made one point that I agree with. No matter how many editors marks are on that photo, I will never allow any of those photos to be touched up for sale. That would be the collectors who buy them to clean the photo if they wish.
I would ask for several more to post, but my cousin will be busy making copies for HYEE to view in Jan.

DRC
This Texas northern stuff I have to stay clear from. I too am a Northerner, born and bred, but one of my sons and all my grandchildren are being raised in Texas. I am now in Houston as I type this thread. So I Texans for grandchildren. Got to say though, with the snow storm that hit Michigan, I a glad to be here now.

billyb

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by billyb

Scott, you and the others within that thread made one point that I agree with. No matter how many editors marks are on that photo, I will never allow any of those photos to be touched up for sale. That would be the collectors who buy them to clean the photo if they wish.
I would ask for several more to post, but my cousin will be busy making copies for HYEE to view in Jan.

billyb

Billy, whether or not you take my advice is not important - I have no horse in this race and have the skill to authenticate my own photos If you would like to pay someone to tell you whether or not your photos are real, then you should do so. It's a very popular route to go these days. Good luck.

[billyb]

Originally Posted by drc

Billyb's posts and questions were perfectly legitimate. Not a thing wrong with them. I'm sure even the 'fighters' Ben and Scott would agree.

If you have any questions about your photos and auctioning them, you can contact me via Net54 PM. I'll be happy to give advice. As I said, they appear legitimate and numerous places would be interested in them.

In fact you could post some on the B/S/T section here and see how they sell.

DRC
I appreciate the offer to sell some of the photos here, but they are not mine to sell, I am getting feedback for my cousin and his family who are the owners. My only concern with these photos are that my cousin has his collection handled the best possible way. I will keep this site in mind when the time comes, either sold here or I will let the collectors here know where they will be sold.

[billyb]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Billy, whether or not you take my advice is not important - I have no horse in this race and have the skill to authenticate my own photos If you would like to pay someone to tell you whether or not your photos are real, then you should do so. It's a very popular route to go these days. Good luck.

Scott
I know where you are coming from, I truly do, but I am more afraid of selling a photo that was not a true type 1 or 2, I do not have that skill to judge, and I know that other experts like yourself would know the difference. But if even one photo was misgraded or somehow slipped though and graded incorrectly, than the rest of the collection could loose its luster with the collectors. Or what if a novice collector were to buy that error, and not know the difference. I feel confident with anyone of you, who have responded, and would feel comfortable with anyone of you, but the common denominator seemed to be Mr. Yee.
Scott, thank you for all you information, and by the way, my son who lives in Houston said "Dallas who???" That's not from me, I am still trying to root for the Lions, just visiting in Houston for now. I have Texas grandchildren.
billyb

[drc]

The common denominator was not Mr. Yee. That he has a spirited cheerleading squad doesn't make him a common denominator. However, he's competent with your types of photos and would do a fine job identifying then.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by drc

The common denominator was not Mr. Yee. That he has a spirited cheerleading squad doesn't make him a common denominator. However, he's competent with your types of photos and would do a fine job identifying then.

Henry and Marshall also invented the classification system which you and others regularly plagiarize and use with no credit given. I admit I use their terminology too but I don't get paid for my services. Just something to think about. And I should add, if that Type 1-thru Type 4 system was used before they put it out I would like to know so I can be as correct as possible, but I believe what I am saying is true.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Leon

Henry and Marshall also invented the classification system which you and others regularly plagiarize and use with no credit given. I admit I use their terminology too but I don't get paid for my services. Just something to think about. And I should add, if that Type 1-thru Type 4 system was used before they put it out I would like to know so I can be as correct as possible, but I believe what I am saying is true.

I don't think anyone is taking credit for having invented Henry's terminology. If someone was quoting him without giving him credit, that would be plagiarism. Also, he receives tons of accolades for his type system, here on the board, and it indirectly results in money in his pocket, so I doubt he has too many complaints when it is used.

Definition of plagiarism: to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by billyb

Scott
I know where you are coming from, I truly do, but I am more afraid of selling a photo that was not a true type 1 or 2, I do not have that skill to judge, and I know that other experts like yourself would know the difference. But if even one photo was misgraded or somehow slipped though and graded incorrectly, than the rest of the collection could loose its luster with the collectors. Or what if a novice collector were to buy that error, and not know the difference. I feel confident with anyone of you, who have responded, and would feel comfortable with anyone of you, but the common denominator seemed to be Mr. Yee.
Scott, thank you for all you information, and by the way, my son who lives in Houston said "Dallas who???" That's not from me, I am still trying to root for the Lions, just visiting in Houston for now. I have Texas grandchildren.
billyb

Billy, you make good points.

[drc]

They put out the Type I terminology first. That doesn't make it worthwhile terminology. I'm sure I could put out a color coded system.

I describe photos using the English language: Original, original printed later, later generation. Unlike with Type I, I never have to explain to a collector what original means.

Sorry if I say my (and everyone else's in the photo world who doesn't collect PSA or Beckett), the English language system, is the superior system. It's known as describing a photo in words people know and understand. I will be bold and say that using common English words is 10x better than using some convoluted type system. I didn't say the Type system was incorrect, just a pointless and pointlessly confusing. It's a gimmick for graded card collectors.

People come on this board often and say "What does Type I mean?" Does anyone every come on this board and say "What does original mean?" I've never had to explain to anyone what an 'original' painting means.

When I worked for Beckett, they used the Type system, but that had nothing to do with me. I wasn't a fan of that system then, didn't use it, but Beckett decided how to label things not me.

As I said before, press photos aren't a terribly complicated area of photography to identify. You don't have to be Sir Isaac Newton to tackle it. Along that line, do I think Yee and PSA/DNA is competent at labeling press photos? Yes. The PSA LOA's I've seen have been accurate in their descriptions.


* * * *

"What kind of photo is that?"
"It's a Type I"
"What does Type I mean?"
"Original."
"Then why don't you just call it original?"
"Because I'm lame and stupid and girls hate me."
"Oh, okay, as long as you have a reason."

Calm down, it's just a joke. Everyone knows PSA collectors are the smoothest and hippest of the graded sports ephemera collectors. Women love a man with holograms.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by drc

They put out the Type I terminology first. That doesn't make it worthwhile terminology. I'm sure I could put out a color coded system.

I describe photos using the English language: Original, original printed later, later generation. Unlike with Type I, I never have to explain to a collector what original means.

Sorry if I say my (and everyone else's in the photo world who doesn't collect PSA or Beckett), the English language system, is the superior system. It's known as describing a photo in words people know and understand. I will be bold and say that using common English words is 10x better than using some convoluted type system. I didn't say the Type system was incorrect, just a pointless and pointlessly confusing. It's a gimmick for graded card collectors.

People come on this board often and say "What does Type I mean?" Does anyone every come on this board and say "What does original mean?" I've never had to explain to anyone what an 'original' painting means.

When I worked for Beckett, they used the Type system, but that had nothing to do with me. I wasn't a fan of that system then, didn't use it, but Beckett decided how to label things not me.

As I said before, press photos aren't a terribly complicated area of photography to identify. You don't have to be Sir Isaac Newton to tackle it. Along that line, do I think Yee and PSA/DNA is competent at labeling press photos? Yes. The PSA LOA's I've seen have been accurate in their descriptions.


* * * *

"What kind of photo is that?"
"It's a Type I"
"What does Type I mean?"
"Original."
"Then why don't you just call it original?"
"Because I'm lame and stupid and girls hate me."
"Oh, okay, as long as you have a reason."

Calm down, it's just a joke. Everyone knows PSA collectors are the smoothest and hippest of the graded sports ephemera collectors. Women love a man with holograms.

For what it is worth.. I don't collect psa and Beckett slabs nor have I submitted to them and I like system(as a collector in the photo world). It is a system that was first and defines differences. It is not hard to comprehend. Type is an English word and numbers .. Well.. they aren't too tough either. It is easy to say one could come up with something better after the fact. If you can, perhaps you should try and see if it takes. "Original" is not your system.. it is a common term that can be used for anything and not close to specific enough IMO(ambiguous term as it related to photos).
I actually believe the Type system is easy to understand. Is the type system a gimmick?? Idk.. Do they make money on it? Yes.. But it serves a purpose. Therefore, I don't care. Not everyone is as knowledgeable as you, jimmy, runscott myself.. Ect. This isn't because they are unable.. but because they haven't had the exposure. There are a lot of photo archives that have opened and a lot of room for those who are not educated to get taken. I personally like the type system and it has nothing to do with buying and collecting slabs. The only slabs I own are photos that happen to have been authenticated already when I purchased. However, if I was to ever sell my collection.. I would have all the high end photos authenticated by PSA as I believe it would attract more bidding by those who want/need the assurance. This , in turn, will most likely line my pockets with more money which women do like(so I guess you are right on that one) I also want to apologize to the board for negativity. The hobby should be fun and positive no matter what photo classification you adopt. runscott and I did have a nice convo and agree on more that we disagree. Funny how that works huh?? "Can't we all just get along"? just my 2 cents

[Runscott]

I agree with a lot of what both of you just posted. I just wrote up my own thoughts about the type system, but to prevent more angst, I have deleted it

[drc]

Knowing Scott, this is probably what he would have said: "To start, you all are a bunch of freaks and imbeciles ... " It would continue along that line until he demonstrates his God complex and speaks in tongues, takes out his gun and waves it around as talks about ACME News Photo stamping, dares us to a game of Russian roulette and when no one accepts says "I didn't think so," then ends with "And, in conclusion, I hope you all rot in Hell." In short, it would be just like a Ted Nugent concert.

No wait, my bad. That's what I'd say.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by drc

Knowing Scott, this is probably what he would have said: "To start, you all are a bunch of freaks and imbeciles ... " It would continue along that line until he demonstrates his God complex and speaks in tongues, takes out his gun and waves it around as talks about ACME News Photo stamping, dares us to a game of Russian roulette and when no one accepts says "I didn't think so," then ends with "And, in conclusion, I hope you all rot in Hell." In short, it would be just like a Ted Nugent concert.

No wait, my bad. That's what I'd say.

I actually saved what I would have written - it took about 30 minutes and was revised several times; however, in the end, I still felt it would have offended some people on the board, so I tucked it away.

[billyb]

Hi all,
I forgot to ask one other question about the collection my cousin has, some of the photos are shown like a mirror image (reversed). Would that be a good indication that they are original?

Billyb

[drc]

I don't think it proves anything either way. A negative is transparent so you print from it 'foreword' or 'backward.'

[billyb]

Originally Posted by drc

I don't think it proves anything either way. A negative is transparent so you print from it 'foreword' or 'backward.'

Thanx DRC,

My way of thinking was if it was a negative, it would be an original, but I guess I was mistaken, thanx.

billyb

[drc]

I understand your thought process, but everything was printed from a negative that could be flipped either way.

[billyb]

To let everyone know as to the update of this collection, the owner is a teacher and is also a wrestling coach, meaning, he is quite busy and wishes to put back until spring, any decision of keeping or selling. If the decision is to sell, then nothing will happen till then.
I do hope to have this collection viewed by a professional, so if there is anyone on this board who is in northeast Michigan area, or if anyone is planning a visit to eastside of Michigan between March and June, please let me know.
The knowledge of members on this board are second to none, and viewing this collection would be of greater validity to this collection.
Once again, this collection consists of 2 binders full of Babe Ruth either originals or type 1 or 2 press photos, mainly of Ruth's latter career days or after he retired. One binder is full of what I posted, with stamping and news clips on back, the other binder has mostly photos with crop marks, reversed images and many with no backing, but still have press stamps. Each binder has 50 or so photos inside.
I thank everyone for educating me on these items and through this thread and other threads, I am learning a lot about how to handle this collection, and still learning.
Thank you once again and if my cuz does decide to sell, this site will be the first I contact.

billyb