Mickey Mantle ball

[urtzie]

any opinions on authenticity? I am fairly new to this game so any opinions and help is appreciated. collecting for my 5 year old son to have these some day

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[sycks22]

The 2nd "m" looks a little too shaky for me. Just my opinion.

[thetruthisoutthere]

100% forgery.

[GrayGhost]

No good IMO. M's formation is bad

[Donscards]

I am always amazed how the members on this board can authenticate the autographed pieces---Here is my Mantle ball that I got years ago in person---I think it looks close to the other ball on here--but I am no expert--so I guess I will ask for opinions----thanks, Don

[urtzie]

I actually reviewed many authentic Mantle pieces and noticed the M's here looked more pointed than his normally were... his seemed more round. Like the old saying goes if it's too good to be true it probably is.

[urtzie]

that ball from Don does look alot like mine.. wow. somebody is good at signing that name that's for sure. I am taking it to authenticator in a few months along with some other pieces.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by urtzie

that ball from Don does look alot like mine.. wow. somebody is good at signing that name that's for sure. I am taking it to authenticator in a few months along with some other pieces.

I wouldn't waste your cash taking the suspect ball to an authenticator. It is a known forgery style.

There are some general similarities between your ball and the one that Don posted because that's what forgers do -- try to make it look like the real deal.

Here are some key flaws in your ball: the right side of the second M flares to the right at an unnatural angle, pointy top Ms, the "tle" "falls off" the signature, and if you look closely the loops under the Ms are slowly drawn with a hint of hesitation. The loops under the Ms in Don's exemplar are as smooth as glass.

[RichardSimon]

Save your money urtzie,,, the ball is fugly.
And yes, you are correct,to the untrained eye the ball from Don does look like yours in some respects.
Forgers practice their "craft", that is why so many get fooled.
It is not like you yourself picked up a pen and it would be easy to see an amateur try to forge Mantle's autograph. It does not work that way. These guys have some skill ranging from minimal to quite a bit of skill.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Don's ball is 100% authentic. Urtzie's Mantle ball isn't close to Don's.

That particular Mantle forgery with the "536 HR" inscription still makes the rounds (and gets removed) on Ebay and other websites.

[urtzie]

Thanks for the help.... I really appreciate it!

[urtzie]

thanks for all the help. If an item comes with JSA/PSA is that a decent guarantee that the ball is real?

[Taxman]

The "a" and "n" are way off...Trust but verify with a third party. Good Luck

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by urtzie

thanks for all the help. If an item comes with JSA/PSA is that a decent guarantee that the ball is real?

I suggest you read some of the other threads on this board.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Don's ball is 100% authentic. Urtzie's Mantle ball isn't close to Don's.

That particular Mantle forgery with the "536 HR" inscription still makes the rounds (and gets removed) on Ebay and other websites.

I would agree... for someone who has spent 1000's of hours looking at Mantle's...it's easy to see. He's the only guy I can do that with. I'm a one trick pony.

What you have there is called a "Shakey Shantle". I hope this helps.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I suggest you read some of the other threads on this board.

That being said..... about JSA/PSA mistake after horrid mistake being pointed out here. Although they are whipping boys too, I have rarely if EVER seen a Mickey Mantle with either of their certification that I have questioned. You do see them from time to time and wonder what they saw that you missed?

Let me use an Analogy for you that some like to use.....

You will almost NEVER SEE an AUTHENTIC MICKEY MANTLE with a Chris MORAL LESS Cert and you will almost NEVER SEE a FAKE with a PSA/JSA certification. I hope that helps where Mantle is concerned.

[urtzie]

The guy I bought this ball from is guaranteeing authenticity and claims if I send it off and if fails he will refund my money. I am sending to PSA for authentication... both the Mantle and Williams. He is 100% denying fake but we shall see. I told him some knowledgeable folks don't agree. thanks for all the help and I will let you knwo where it ends up.

Mark

[thetruthisoutthere]

Will the seller also refund your authentication fees?

[Donscards]

This site is great---You really have some knowledgeable people on here--I was checking my Mantle ball vs the other Mantle ball on here--and do see the differences that were pointed out---I have a few other Mantle auto's and all very certified by JSA---but it is always good to see the flow of the pen with no stoppage.--Keep up the good work guys---Don

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Will the seller also refund your authentication fees?

a couple hundos down the drain seems like such a waste.

[BrandonG]

Here is my Mantle. I've had it for about 8 years and purchased it before I knew ANYTHING about autographs. Now I'm nervous, Richard, would like your opinion. (ps: ball did get a psa/dna authentication a few years ago).

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by BrandonG

Here is my Mantle. I've had it for about 8 years and purchased it before I knew ANYTHING about autographs. Now I'm nervous, Richard, would like your opinion. (ps: ball did get a psa/dna authentication a few years ago).

Nervous about what, Brandon? 100% authentic The Mick autographed baseball.

[BrandonG]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Nervous about what, Brandon? 100% authentic The Mick autographed baseball.

Haha well you never know anymore. Thanks Chris

[David Atkatz]

Authenticity, Chris, is an either/or property; it is discrete, rather than continuous. Can you post an example of, say, a 35% authentic Mantle?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by BrandonG

Haha well you never know anymore. Thanks Chris

You're welcome, Brandon.

Now the person that owns the below Ted Williams should be nervous. It's a well-known secretarial signed Ted Williams that was sold at Todd Mueller Auctions.

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[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by BrandonG

Here is my Mantle. I've had it for about 8 years and purchased it before I knew ANYTHING about autographs. Now I'm nervous, Richard, would like your opinion. (ps: ball did get a psa/dna authentication a few years ago).

Brandon - Mickey is fine, you definitely have an authentic ball.

[BrandonG]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Brandon - Mickey is fine, you definitely have an authentic ball.

Thanks

[GrayGhost]

That Williams isn't even close. People NEED TO DO RESEARCH and not rely on someones OPINION.

[RichardSimon]

That is one fugly Williams.
And no I won't put up my Williams photo tonite .

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

That is one fugly Williams.
And no I won't put up my Williams photo tonite .

Shelly will be disappointed...

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

That Williams isn't even close. People NEED TO DO RESEARCH and not rely on someones OPINION.

But how can that be? Todd Mueller says "it's authentic." How is that possible?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Chuck (Fudd) posted the following comment:

You will almost NEVER SEE an AUTHENTIC MICKEY MANTLE with a Chris MORAL LESS Cert and you will almost NEVER SEE a FAKE with a PSA/JSA certification. I hope that helps where Mantle is concerned.

Well written, Chuck. In my opinion, if Morales actually got a Mantle correct, it would be by sheer luck. Has anyone ever seen an authentic Mickey Mantle authenticated by Chris Morales? I haven't.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Chuck (Fudd) posted the following comment:
Well written, Chuck. In my opinion, if Morales actually got a Mantle correct, it would be by sheer luck. Has anyone ever seen an authentic Mickey Mantle authenticated by Chris Morales? I haven't.

Amazingly, when they ran their half-baked "sting" on JSA they were able to identify a real Mantle to send. So technically, there is at least one real Mantle with a Morales cert.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Amazingly, when they ran their half-baked "sting" on JSA they were able to identify a real Mantle to send. So technically, there is at least one real Mantle with a Morales cert.

It's amazing that in all of the years that I have been looking at Morales certed autographs, that I have never seen one, that in my opinion, is authentic.

How is it possible, that I have never seen an authentic Chris Morales certed autograph. Chris Morales, who claims to have forensic training. Chris Morales, who calls himself a Forensic Investigator.

And, if my memory serves me correctly, Hollywood & Sports Memorabilia was the first client of Chris Morales when he first started authenticating sports autographs.

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[David Atkatz]

When will you guys learn? You keep pretending Morales is an authenticator, albeit an inept one who keeps getting it wrong.

He is not.

He is just another part of a well-oiled scam machine. He is a thief, and a liar. Nothing more.

His only purpose is to cert forgeries, and that makes it just about impossible to find a genuine item with his CoA.

Don't you ever get tired of playing the "How could he possibly have authenticated this one?" game?

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

When will you guys learn? You keep pretending Morales is an authenticator, albeit an inept one who keeps getting it wrong.

He is not.

He is just another part of a well-oiled scam machine. He is a thief, and a liar. Nothing more.

His only purpose is to cert forgeries, and that makes it just about impossible to find a genuine item with his CoA.

Don't you ever get tired of playing the "How could he possibly have authenticated this one?" game?

David, they won't get tired of it. It's called feigning outrage. They have to compare Morales and their preferred TPA's skills and put them in the same category so they can show that their TPA is better than Morales at 'authenticating' autographs. That's the only way their TPA can 'save the day'.

But if Morales isn't an authenticator, they can't do that.

[David Atkatz]

Excellent point, Travis.

[travrosty]

They don't like the truth.

[smotan_02]

These threads are getting old. Same conversation, different item.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by smotan_02

These threads are getting old. Same conversation, different item.

Then don't read them, Scotty. Your choice.

[thetruthisoutthere]

I didn't want to disappoint Travis.

Hank Aaron forgery. Sold by Todd Mueller Autographs.

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[David Atkatz]

Don't worry, Chris. You never disappoint.

[travrosty]

diversions are their only tactic. they cant get traction on a (yawn) issue that they have beat into the ground so they bring up someone else.

They didn't get heritage to do the right thing, I did, my friends did, at personal cost to boot.

They defended heritage and the authentication companies, when even heritage couldn't defend it anymore and gave in to what the collecting public really wants, truth in advertising.

Meanwhile, all collectors in the hobby will benefit by heritage changing their ways and stop claiming authentication when there was none.

haulsofshame features a purported copy of a ty cobb cut encapsulated by you know who and we are suppose to believe a 10 dollar hank aaron that is backed by a refund guarantee or a 20 dollar morales mickey mantle is suppose to get us excited.

when 1300 dollar unguaranteed ty cobbs are out there with the certification that is suppose to be the most credible and bring in the most money on the online auction sites, the traditional auctions, and the card shows.

keep showing the small stuff and let's let the big stuff with the most credible certs (in the eyes of collecting public) slide by when the xerox copies are purportedly making the rounds.

I ask the same question they ask. Just how are they authenticating these items over there at encapsulation central? I know they are suppose to be using exemplars, but when the exemplar matches the specimen in question EXACTLY, that is a problem, isn't it?

Their answer or rebuttal to all of this? - Mueller of course.


I personally like this hank aaron much better

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

When will you guys learn? You keep pretending Morales is an authenticator, albeit an inept one who keeps getting it wrong.

He is not.

He is just another part of a well-oiled scam machine. He is a thief, and a liar. Nothing more.

His only purpose is to cert forgeries, and that makes it just about impossible to find a genuine item with his CoA.

Don't you ever get tired of playing the "How could he possibly have authenticated this one?" game?

This is a great point...however, It is important to point out the obvious for an occasional newbie that may have just found this site.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by travrosty

diversions are their only tactic. they cant get traction on a (yawn) issue that they have beat into the ground so they bring up someone else.

They didn't get heritage to do the right thing, I did, my friends did, at personal cost to boot.

They defended heritage and the authentication companies, when even heritage couldn't defend it anymore and gave in to what the collecting public really wants, truth in advertising.

Meanwhile, all collectors in the hobby will benefit by heritage changing their ways and stop claiming authentication when there was none.

haulsofshame features a purported copy of a ty cobb cut encapsulated by you know who and we are suppose to believe a 10 dollar hank aaron that is backed by a refund guarantee or a 20 dollar morales mickey mantle is suppose to get us excited.

when 1300 dollar unguaranteed ty cobbs are out there with the certification that is suppose to be the most credible and bring in the most money on the online auction sites, the traditional auctions, and the card shows.

keep showing the small stuff and let's let the big stuff with the most credible certs (in the eyes of collecting public) slide by when the xerox copies are purportedly making the rounds.

I ask the same question they ask. Just how are they authenticating these items over there at encapsulation central? I know they are suppose to be using exemplars, but when the exemplar matches the specimen in question EXACTLY, that is a problem, isn't it?

Their answer or rebuttal to all of this? - Mueller of course.


I personally like this hank aaron much better

I really am starting to find itt laughable how anagonistic you are...Nobody is sticking up for third party??? Talk about being a sensitive little girl.

HERE's THE IRONIC PART OF THIS PSA WILLIE MAYS/Hank Aaron debacle CARD TRAVIS>>>><>

I AM THE ONE who sent this great example of PSA blundering stupid mistake to Steve Kocshal and AUTOGRAPH alert about 4- 5 years ago...LOLOLOLOL

put that in your pipe and smoke it Analogy Boy!!!!!

FUDD calls them likes he sees them, so stop with your petty stupid games already.

can we just stop at Christpher Moral less is a fraudulant criminal disgusting human being and PSA/JSA are incompetent boobs sometimes????

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by smotan_02

These threads are getting old. Same conversation, different item.

i enjoy these type of threads tremendously and there are other threads that i find boring and repetitive, guess what? i dont read and comment in the threads i don't like

[HOFAUTOS]

The Hank Aaron/Willie Mays autographed card is just a "mechanical error" as called in the graded card world. The wrong label went in the wrong slab. Not a big deal at all.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by HOFAUTOS

The Hank Aaron/Willie Mays autographed card is just a "mechanical error" as called in the graded card world. The wrong label went in the wrong slab. Not a big deal at all.

Of course it was a administrative QA issue. But that is not nearly as juicy as pretending that PSA actually doesn't know the difference between Aaron and Mays.

[David Atkatz]

No different than pretending that Morales doesn't know exactly what he's doing.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

No different than pretending that Morales doesn't know exactly what he's doing.

I agree with your definition. But, people outside of the forum may not be aware of the distinction.