Please post a scan of a "Just So"

[John V]

Somewhere along the line I've seen "Just So" cards mentioned. Can someone post a scan of one? Also, what year were they issued?

[barrysloate]

Based on the roster of known players in the set, 1894 seems to be about the year they were issued. We really don't know much about their distribution, however.

[White Borders]

Click Here for Old Cardboard's "Just So" Gallery

[aljurgela]

Does anyone know how many Cy Young "Just So" cards there are? When have they traded? How much did they sell for and when... there is nothing in VCP.

Thanks.

[benchod]

one known
board member has it

[aljurgela]

Thanks Craig. Would the mystery individual care to share the history? Pretty please.

[barrysloate]

It's not mine, but I can share the history. A family in Atlanta (I think) had a group of 7 back in the 1980's. Cy Young was one of them. They belonged to a great-aunt who once lived in the Cleveland area. They were written up in SCD, and the current owner contacted them and eventually worked out a deal. I helped him sell the other six players, as he only wanted the Young.

[aljurgela]

Thanks Barry. Did you sell the other ones in your auctions? If so, when and how did they do? I could not find history results on your auction web site.

[barrysloate]

Al- I auctioned them in 1998, long before the days of websites. I would have to dig out the catalog but they sold in the 4-5K range each. At the time that was a strong price, but compared to today of course they look cheap.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

he only wanted the Young.

thinking that was a pretty good buy.

any guesses/estimates on what it would sell for today at auction?

[bcbgcbrcb]

Cy Young - $100K+
Burkett (after it was altered) - $10K - $15K

[Leon]

Cy Young- definitely 500k+ and more likely closer to 1M.....almost no doubt about it. Just think about what that card represents and the rarity of it. I would much, much prefer it over a Wags.....and many other collectors would too. regards

[e107collector]

Originally Posted by Leon

Cy Young- definitely 500k+ and more likely closer to 1M.....almost no doubt about it. Just think about what that card represents and the rarity of it. I would much, much prefer it over a Wags.....and many other collectors would too. regards

I agree completely, closer to $1 million.

Does anyone know if it is graded? If so, what is the grade?

Tony

[bcbgcbrcb]

C'mon guys, I am trying to keep the perceived market value down so as to one day be able to afford to buy it........

[novakjr]

Does anyone know if there are any good reproductions of this set? Of any set out there, due to it's scarcity and historical context, I imagine there would be a pretty solid demand for reproductions. BUT I've never seen one..

[aljurgela]

I will gladly take it for 100k! Thanks for a little of the history and your thoughts guys. Appreciate it.

[barrysloate]

The Cy Young is not graded. The owner has no interest in doing so. Based on its appearance I would guess it would grade a 3.

And I would estimate it would sell for 500K, but not $1 million. Who knows?

[mcadams]

I am not following the logic for why some suggest that migth be a half million dollar card. Ultra-rare card? yes. Importance of the set? Debatable. What am I missing?

[barrysloate]

It's Cy Young's rookie card, it's unique, and it's from a rare high demand set. And it's one of the big three 19th century cards, along with the N172 Anson in Uniform and the Four Base Hits Kelly.

[doug.goodman]

And it's a beautiful image.

[benchod]

Originally Posted by aljurgela

I will gladly take it for 100k! Thanks for a little of the history and your thoughts guys. Appreciate it.

Al, I thought you said you aren't a whale

[benchod]

Well since no has posted to the OP request here's mine
I can't remember who I bought it from, though
Sorry about the low grade; not all of us collect ultra high grade, penultimate specimens worthy of the most discriminating collection

http://www.net54baseball.com/attachm...1&d=1309137364

[benchod]

BTW I hope he didn't pay for that haircut!

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by mcadams

I am not following the logic for why some suggest that migth be a half million dollar card. Ultra-rare card? yes. Importance of the set? Debatable. What am I missing?

It's the 'stache man, the 'stache.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by mcadams

I am not following the logic for why some suggest that migth be a half million dollar card. Ultra-rare card? yes. Importance of the set? Debatable. What am I missing?

It is one of the only sets (besides Mayos) that is between Old Judge and E107 and is highly coveted by 19th century collectors. There are probably less than 25 total cards in the whole set known. The Cy Young card is uniquely known, is the true rookie card of the man the Cy Young award is named after and has more wins than anyone ever will or ever has. Besides that, not much importance.

[mcadams]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

It's the 'stache man, the 'stache.

If it's the 'stache, then I guess a Just So King Kelly would be worth a couple of gazillion.

[aljurgela]

it would come off the home equity line....

[mcadams]

Originally Posted by Leon

It is one of the only sets (besides Mayos) that is between Old Judge and E107 and is highly coveted by 19th century collectors. There are probably less than 25 total cards in the whole set known. The Cy Young card is uniquely known, is the true rookie card of the man the Cy Young award is named after and has more wins than anyone ever will or ever has. Besides that, not much importance.

Thanks Leon. When you say it is "uniquely known", I am sure this is considered a holy grail among 19th century collectors, but I don't think it is as widely known as other cards that have actually commanded those prices. As a long-time collector, but a newby to pre-war, I was somewhat astonished at the assertion that the card was that important. Seems Young has another 19th century issue prior to the Sporting Life cabinets, but alas not what is considered his RC. The card has stunning eye appeal, regardless.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by mcadams

Thanks Leon. When you say it is "uniquely known", I am sure this is considered a holy grail among 19th century collectors, but I don't think it is as widely known as other cards that have actually commanded those prices. As a long-time collector, but a newby to pre-war, I was somewhat astonished at the assertion that the card was that important. Seems Young has another 19th century issue prior to the Sporting Life cabinets, but alas not what is considered his RC. The card has stunning eye appeal, regardless.

The thing with this card, is that you rarely hear any mention of it. It shows almost no activity whatsoever. Amongst collectors, many still aren't aware that it's even out there, but this is one of those cards that, once you become aware of it, you can't help but fall in love with it.. While the Wagner is the pretty, press-friendly card that the hobby is probably most known for, I believe that the Just So Cy Young is THE CARD that truly deserves to have all that attention. With it's historical significance and current population, it is the ultimate 1/1... Unfortunately, 1/1's hold little, if any, luster because they aren't at all attainable. To me though, this is the perfect card.

[aljurgela]

Originally Posted by novakjr

To me though, this is the perfect card.

To me the "Just So" Cy Young is by far at the top of my list of cards that I would want and surpasses my typical holy grail cards like the Cabanas Pete Hill (one known) the Punch: Pop Lloyd (two known), Pete Hill (three known), Jose Mendez (two known), by a wide margin...

While some of the ultra rare Negro Leaguers are very interesting to me, Cy Young is Cy Young and will be forever. His importance will never fade. I hope that some of the negro leaguers will continue to gain visibility, but I highly doubt that any of them could ever approach the lasting impact that the name has on the game.

One copy. Rookie card. Fantastic image. Sweet stache.

It has it all. Easily take this over a Wagner.

[sox1903wschamp]

I do not collect 19th Century but if I did, the Young would be my grail. Just so sweet.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Both of these Cy Young cabinet cards were produced prior to the Just So. Which card is really Cy Young's Rookie Card?

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Both of these Cy Young cabinet cards were produced prior to the Just So. Which card is really Cy Young's Rookie Card?

Are those even catalogued? Anyways, my main concern with those is that they aren't necessarily cards intended for collecting, but possibly just simply photo's. I really don't know enough about those to comment on the nature of their existence(I've seen Ryder cabinets at flea markets of RANDOM men and women). BUT I do know that the Just So Young, for one, features him in uniform and was released with baseball and advertising in mind. It is a true card, and not just a picture.. Again, I'm not trying to diminish the true value of the rogers or ryders cabinets, because I think they are both probably equally as important, but they may not(by standard definition) technically be cards. Everyone has their own interpretation of what is and what isn't a "card" though, and I'll be the first to admit that I throw the term around about as loosely as anyone...

Do I consider the 1948 bowman Musial his rookie card? Yes. But in my collection, I have the 1943 m114 as my rookie. Other people may not accept the m114 as a rookie "card", while the '48 Bowman is the most commonly accepted Rookie "card".. Anything from that first commonly accepted rookie or earlier is usually good enough for me... Honestly, the earlier "technically not" cards offer the best bang for the buck from a collectability standpoint..

[Bicem]

Those are photos, but they are amazing!

[E93]

I agree with the higher end estimates on the Just So Cy Young. Not that I think it will come to auction any time soon, if ever, if it did I would be more surprised if it sold for less than 500k than if it sold for more than a million. The card has it all.
JimB

P.S. Those cabinets are amazing!!!

[GaryPassamonte]

There was a poll a couple years ago and the N172 Anson in uniform was voted the holy grail of 19th century cards. The Just So Young came in second. As for aesthetics, the Young is superior, but based on other considerations, the Anson prevailed.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

There was a poll a couple years ago and the N172 Anson in uniform was voted the holy grail of 19th century cards. The Just So Young came in second. As for aesthetics, the Young is superior, but based on other considerations, the Anson prevailed.

Well, the Anson is somewhat attainable. I'd say that is probably the key reason for the Anson being considered the holy grail.. Some people have just accepted the fact that they'll never have the Just So Young, and moved on to something that's pretty much out of reach, but at some point, may be possible... Given the impossibility of the Just So Young, I'm honestly surprised that it came in as high as second..

[barrysloate]

I don't think the Anson is all that obtainable. The three collectors who have one are very unlikely to sell, and the fourth is in a museum. I wouldn't know how to get one.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I don't think the Anson is all that obtainable. The three collectors who have one are very unlikely to sell, and the fourth is in a museum. I wouldn't know how to get one.

I apologize, for some reason I was thinking of the portrait. The only downside that I can think of for the Anson in Uniform is that there are nice alternatives from the same year in the portrait and the Buchner Gold Coin...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by novakjr

I apologize, for some reason I was thinking of the portrait. The only downside that I can think of for the Anson in Uniform is that there are nice alternatives from the same year in the portrait and the Buchner Gold Coin...

well, sort of but not really....I might go with you on the 172 Portrait Anson, as a less expensive sub, but you lost me on the N284....To me that is apples and oranges...

As for the cabinets of Anson....I agree with Jeff in that I don't consider them "cards" as the Just So ones are....that's my half cent.

[barrysloate]

The N172 Anson in street clothes is obtainable.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Leon

well, sort of but not really....I might go with you on the 172 Portrait Anson, as a less expensive sub, but you lost me on the N284....To me that is apples and oranges...

As for the cabinets of Anson....I agree with Jeff in that I don't consider them "cards" as the Just So ones are....that's my half cent.

I wasn't really trying to put the N284 in the same class, but as an alternative from the same year attainable for those on a smaller budget. At least I didn't mention the Tobin Baby Talk for comparison. That would've been embarassing...