How can a proof be graded?

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Posted By: TBob

I received an M116 proof card back from GAI today. I was attempting a cross-over from another grading company which is not one of the Big 3. GAI sent it back, still encapsulated in the old holder, stating it was trimmed on the top edge. My question is this: how in the world could a proof card EVER be graded because they are, by their very nature, trimmed, if not the top edge, then cut all around. Any suggestions? Maybe SCD Authentic or does SCD or PSA tag cards (or proofs) as authentic now?

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Posted By: Marc S.

It very likely may have been trimmed.

Trimmed in this case probably means trimmed recently to improve the grade/appearance of the card, as opposed to trimmed 90 years ago. In my mind, it's a fairly big difference....

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Posted By: runscott

How about strip "cards" (I use the term loosely) trimmed recently, as opposed to 80 years ago? Does this make a difference to the graders? (Remember the guy who tried to trim a strip Jackson with a dull x-acto blade last year?)

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Posted By: Hankron

With proofs with handcut edges or production marks, the grading is informal-- offering a representation of how the item displays. Proofs really aren't trading cards, nor intended to be trading cards, so traditional grading standards don't always apply.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I believe in many things. Among them is the right to trim down strip cards. If the card was meant to be cut into a 1 x 2 size and has been left with extra border outside the lines, that's fair game as far as I'm concerned. Just use a sharp knife.

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Posted By: BcD

Or just maybe Authenticated?

I have a bunch of E97 Black and White supposed "Proofs" and they are graded as such. I have also noticed in the past three years they no longer write this on the label. ???

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Posted By: leon

SGC now puts.. E97 Black and White "Proof"

on the black and white e97's...regards all

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

I have an Old Judge Pud Galvin which starts so far out on the upper left, it looks like a prehistoric flying squirell missing one wing-leg. You can see, in the photographic paper, the line drawn so the cutter would cut along it--both ways! Gradually the cut gets closer and closer to the card.

I should trim this?

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Posted By: Hankron

Just remember that the proofs and other oddities were invented long before the current grading system. When the vogue grading system doesn't work for a type of card, it's the grading system's fault not the card's.

The PSA & SGC type of grading standards were honed for a specific type of product with particular qualities, and shouldn't be applied in a religous manner to other products.

To me at least, owning an unaltered card that the popular grading system 'can't compute' is something to be proud of.

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Posted By: Wesley

Both SGC and PSA will grade your proof cards. I have seen E97 B & W cards in both PSA and SGC holders.

As far as a more modern example, I owned a 1967 Topps Standup proof card that was handcut from a factory sheet. It was obvious that the sheet was not cut by Topps and my card in particular had a very wavy and slanted cut. I submitted the card to PSA who refused to grade the card citing evidence of trimming. The card was then sent to SGC who encapsulated it and did not identify as a proof.

The weird thing is that other 1967 Standup cards from the exact same sheet made their way into PSA holders. Maybe the edges on those cards had less of an irregular cut than mine.

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Posted By: TBob

They said they can not (or will not) grade the ASA M116 proof card. I had sent them an email asking about it before I wasted the money to send it to them. Without seeing the card and merely my mentioning in my email that it was in an ASA holder, I think the Alan Hager connection was enough to veto any grading. Really unfair because although I am aware of the bugs in some of his graded cards, I have cracked open some ASA graded cards and had them "crossed over" by PSA.
I even told SGC it may simply be a blank back and not a proof but they said they would not grade it period, without even looking at it even though the dimensions are within M116 parameters. Pretty arrogant attitude if you ask me, but then they didn't.

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Posted By: Wesley

SGC originally told me that they would not encapsulate the 1967 Topps Standup proof.

[ls7plus]

I acquired a proof of the 1969 Topps Super Reggie Jackson, which PSA had graded "proof" and "authentic." The card lacked the final gloss of the regular supers, and had straight corners, rather than rounded ones. The card is actually in NMt + condition. It is the only Reggie Super graded by PSA as a proof. Rarest rookie Reggie?

Comments welcome.

Larry