1930s Uncataloged Self Developing set w/ Cuyler, Hartnett etc....

[Leon]

I guess I was the only one interested in these as I was the only bidder in a recent major auction. They cost a whopping $15 each. In hand they are rather large at approx. 4" x 2 1/2". Anyone ever see any like them before?

[Brian Van Horn]

The sheep are a little scary.

[toppcat]

Leon:

They might be called "Hokus Fokus", not 100% sure. Possibly the basis for Topps Magic Photos in 1948 but I've only seen them referred to and have not seen any set that name is connected with.

[leftygrove10]

They remind me a lot of 1933 Uncle Jacks Candy Cards.....

[Matt]

Originally Posted by leftygrove10

They remind me a lot of 1933 Uncle Jacks Candy Cards.....

Was thinking the same.

[abothebear]

Here are your indians on a postcard.



found here http://cgi.ebay.com/GROUP-NORTHWEST-...item20ba9bd517

[rhettyeakley]

Leon, I saw them and immediately thought they were mounted negatives for the 1931 Sun Pictures Photos (they picture the Wesley ferrell in the SCD book). I haven't handled a ton of those but are they not them? I don't see Cuyler or Gelbert on that checklist but I have seen the Hartnett before (same picture as his Uncle Jacks and Butter Cream card).

[drc]

I don't think they'd pick William Haines and Norma Shearer for a later retrospective set. Them as subjects would strongly suggest they're vintage.

[drc]

-- repeat post --

[drc]

I don't think they'd pick William Haines and Norma Shearer for a later retrospective set. A bit obscure to be used later on.

[leftygrove10]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Leon, I saw them and immediately thought they were mounted negatives for the 1931 Sun Pictures Photos (they picture the Wesley ferrell in the SCD book). I haven't handled a ton of those but are they not them? I don't see Cuyler or Gelbert on that checklist but I have seen the Hartnett before (same picture as his Uncle Jacks and Butter Cream card).

I think you're right, Rhett... I think they are negatives of the 1931 Sun Picture Photos... Here is a picture of the Ferrell from that set... His card is my token example..... I am still looking for the Grove from this set if you need money for the National....

[Leon]

Interesting thoughts so far, guys. I wonder if all of the 1931 Sun Photo cards of the baseball players are the same poses for the corresponding Uncle Jacks? I have a Hartnett Uncle Jacks and they are definitely the same pose. If these are in fact the 1931 Sun Photo negatives then the Gelbert is uncataloged so far.

And George, thanks for the heads up on the postcard of the Indians. It's a perfect (*and cheap) piece to go with this grouping...

This kind of stuff is what helps keep collecting interesting for me.

[Big Ben]

Interesting acquisition Leon. I have seen the racing plane card/photo somewhere but can't remember where. It almost resembles something from a British Cigarette card???

[abothebear]

Here is a corresponding Haines item too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/William-Haines-1...44895054950619

[Leon]

Originally Posted by abothebear

Here is a corresponding Haines item too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/William-Haines-1...44895054950619

Thanks again.....only around 12 more you need to find for me

[Leon]

These are in fact 1931 Sun Pictures Negatives. Thanks for the help guys......You can check out Hartnett here...

http://feb09.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=11414

[mcadams]

Great thread. I had a couple of observations:

1) There is a picture on the bottom row of US Battleship Alabama. The USS Alabama wasn't built until 1942 and was commissioned the same year. Impossible for this picture to be used in a 1931 photo series.

2) If these are really "negatives", then wouldn't the team names appear backwards on the jerseys? I read "Cleveland" from left to right, so these appear to be positives, not negatives. I am obviously not a photo expert.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by mcadams

Great thread. I had a couple of observations:

1) There is a picture on the bottom row of US Battleship Alabama. The USS Alabama wasn't built until 1942 and was commissioned the same year. Impossible for this picture to be used in a 1931 photo series.

2) If these are really "negatives", then wouldn't the team names appear backwards on the jerseys? I read "Cleveland" from left to right, so these appear to be positives, not negatives. I am obviously not a photo expert.

Good questions. I made my assertion based on the Hartnett card in Huggins and Scott being the exact same pose as the one in this group. Them not being reversed negatives doesn't bother me as much as the other revelation about the ship. I will have to think about it and research it some more. I still think they are from Sun Pictures but maybe not 100% sure now....Any more thoughts are appreciated.

[nolemmings]

I'm no battleship expert, and I always lost when playing the board game, but I don't believe the card of the ship depicts the USS Alabama that was commissioned in 1942. According to Wikipedia, there have been at least seven naval ships named Alabama, and this one looks like the ship commissioned in 1900 and scrapped in 1924, which would still make your early 30's estimate possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Alabama_%28BB-8%29

[rhettyeakley]

The fact that they are not reversed doesn't mean anything as the negatives for these (and other sets like Foto Fun, etc.) are simply clear pieces of celluloid/plastic that were placed over the photo paper and the sun was allowed to pass through produce the "image". If Leon took the negative out of the mount and flipped it over it would be reversed. Obviously, though the person mounting them wanted to be able to read the captions, etc. so they mounted them so they could. That's my opinion, I still think they are the 1931 Sun items or something very similar.
-Rhett

[Leon]

Thanks Todd and Rhett....I have them classified as 1931 Sun Pictures negatives and am back to feeling comfortable with it. These negatives do seem to be quite scarce though as I am not sure I remember seeing too many of them. Maybe, in actuality, the negatives are better than the cards as I could potentially make unlimited cards from them (with the right kind of paper).. ...best regards

[mcadams]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I'm no battleship expert, and I always lost when playing the board game, but I don't believe the card of the ship depicts the USS Alabama that was commissioned in 1942. According to Wikipedia, there have been at least seven naval ships named Alabama, and this one looks like the ship commissioned in 1900 and scrapped in 1924, which would still make your early 30's estimate possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Alabama_%28BB-8%29

I agree Todd.

[Exhibitman]

The cards certainly are pre-1933. William Haines' career crashed and burned in 1933 when he was arrested at a YMCA with a sailor and refused Louis B. Mayer's ultimatum to either marry a show bride and fake heterosexuality or lose his career. Mayer fired him and he ended up out of the movie business very quickly. So, if he has a card in this issue, it certainly predates his outing and subsequent career demise.

[Ease]

Originally Posted by Leon

Maybe, in actuality, the negatives are better than the cards as I could potentially make unlimited cards from them (with the right kind of paper)

That would actually be a cool project to try with one of them, just to see what happens.

[toppcat]

Can anyone show an example of Hokus Fokus then, which I believe came a couple of years later. I've only seen one or two references to that set over the years.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Can anyone show an example of Hokus Fokus then, which I believe came a couple of years later. I've only seen one or two references to that set over the years.

Hey Dave
I don't think you are talking of the Topps '48 memorial set? I am not sure I am very familiar with the one you are speaking of?

[toppcat]

Hi Leon:

Nope-Hokus Fokus (with that spelling) was a 1930's issue that Topps allegedly copied for the '48 issue. It must either be a tough set or the wrapper and the set had two different names. Believe it was similar to Sun Photos with multiple sub-sets and genres. It may be a red herring but I think moreso it's a legit issue than not.

[atx840]