Broad Leaf 460 Question/Speculation

[JP]

I'm tempted to go after the REA BL460 Cy Young, but I have a concern and want to know if others think it is valid.

With "finds" popping up here and there such as the recent Drum find, I'm concerned about buying what might be considered the most notable BL 460. If there was ever a Broad Leaf find, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that a popular player like Cy Young would be more likely to survive in a collection than a relatively unknown like Charlie O'Leary?

I don't have enough raw card knowledge to have a real idea of how many BL 460s exist, and I have no idea if the Young is a 1 of 1, but I'd hate for the population of this card to ever go up dramatically overnight. Is my concern valid or am I being idiotically paranoid? I know I'm leaving myself open to ridicule, so please don't hijack this thread with insults.

I've owned 3 BL460s in the past, none with anything but abused reverses...

[pkaufman]

It has often been stated that the premium for HOFers with a tough back such as the Cy Young Broadleaf 460 is reduced because most collectors are more interested in the back variety. I wouldn't focus so much on potential finds, because I think the possibility of such is slim.

[barrysloate]

There's no way to predict what might be found one day, but a hoard of BL460 seems very remote.

[cfc1909]

I would like to know what 3 BL 460s you have owned? after that I will be willing to give some info.

[JP]

Originally Posted by cfc1909

I would like to know what 3 BL 460s you have owned? after that I will be willing to give some info.

Email me then and we'll talk about which I've owned and when. But it isn't relevant to this thread and I don't follow how that information affects the info you have for me. If you have anything that might be helpful to this current thread, please post it. I should not have even mentioned it in my intro if it is going to be a distraction, but I posted it as it is relevant to the point that I've never owned one with such a clean reverse.

[Potomac Yank]

Originally Posted by cfc1909

I would like to know what 3 BL 460s you have owned? after that I will be willing to give some info.

*

JP is not looking to learn about the cards, his topic title says it all.
He's looking for speculations, assumptions, theories, he doesn't give a hoot about the cards ... he's a flipper.

He picks brains for profit.

He wouldn't recognize a back specialist if it hit him between the eyes ... and you just did.

Let's help send a flipper to a day camp.

[JP]

Moderators, can you please keep this thread from being hijacked?

[hangman62]

JP,
You said you owned three BL 460s..answer the question !..which ones ?

[Leon]

C'mon guys. If you have to pester him, can you do it privately? They guy just asked a question. I see no need for an interrogation. I would hope every time I say something on the board I don't have to prove it (not that I can't but I just don't want to live like that). And yes I get the whole situation but still......If you can help with an answer to his question then great. If not, then please ask other questions of him by PM....regards

edited to add that I have seen much stranger things than a BL460 "find" happen....though I haven't seen one of them (yet) it still wouldn't knock me out of my chair. The W cards in Lew's auction were something I had never seen before...so it happens.

[T206DK]

I guess your concern is valid if you are a "flipper" and are concerned with the card not dropping in value. While it's doubtless that there are other Broadleaf 460's out there, they may never surface in any great quantity. Even if a find of a few or a dozen were to occur they would be bought up quickly by advanced collectors and you probably wouldn't see them for sale again for a long time. that's just my guess. The prices would remain steady and would continue to rise as more T206 collectors try add to the demand. I would think it would take a signifigant "find" to cause the value to drop. When I mean signifigant ,I mean enough to satisify everyone who wants one ...I know at least 5 guys who would love one , but can not afford one. Cy Young was one of the most well known names in baseball so the chances of more of his cards surfacing are probably greater than say a common player. there is no way you can go back in time and get in the minds of the people that collected these cards though. they didn't do it for money so their motivation was probably based on love of favorite players, or a favorite team or just the game of baseball in general. My Grandpa saved dozens of tobacco cards , but was not a collector per say. He probably just liked the players , or the look of the card maybe.

[frankb22]

I keep a pretty close watch for them and I have yet to see another
Young of any pose with a BL460 reverse. Also, have not seen another
BL460 in that high a grade. Not sayiing there is not a 6 or better out
there somewhere, I guess there might be but you may have to wait a
lifetime to see it surface.

[bigfish]

JP.....Good luck finding a bl460. I deleted and edited my post because this does not need to go to the top again and your questions do not make any sense to me. I truly hope the poluation of Cy Young's does not double overnight. You are right.....someone could find a barn full of these and then Young's value would drop.

[B O'Brien]

I would rather have the Johnson BL 460, but nice card! If I was a BIG dollar flipper, I think it would be more profitable to work in lower grade commons and buy more.
I like my backs with HOFers on front, but that is not the case with most folks, from what I have gathered.
I do hate seeing cards go to folks that do not truely love them though, but then again, I hate selling to a friend of mine that has not gotten rid of a card in 40 years.
Happy Easter,
Bob

[JP]

Originally Posted by bigfish

"Population double overnight". Was that a serious concern? If yes, do some research on these type of cards. You clearly have no clue how hard it is to find a bl460 hofer graded a 4 or above.

Actually, I DO realize how hard it is to find a card like this, that's why I was concerned about ANY find of 460s doubling the population of this card overnight. I don't think it is at all likely a find like that will occur, but I would've said the same thing a few years ago before the Drum find.

Originally Posted by bigfish

I will bet the farm you will not be winning this card. Just a hint.... I think it might go for more than the next bid. Good luck

You don't know me....so why on earth would you even say something like this? Only reason I can even think of is that you know the consignor and are hoping to "reverse-psychology" me into bidding???

I saw your original and post-edit post...I really don't understand why you decided to take the rude route, though that does seem to be the default setting around here. Based on previous sales, (the BL 460 Auth Mathewson that was sold through cardtarget in 2008 was interesting to read about), and the high grade of this card in particular, I'm sure the card will sell for much more, maybe more than double the current bid, so your patronizing comment wasn't really needed.

Everyone is so filled with vinegar here.....isn't this supposed to be fun?!?!?!

[cfc1909]

not pestering you -just want to know what 3 you have owned-would not have asked if you didn't say it.

[JP]

Originally Posted by cfc1909

not pestering you -just want to know what 3 you have owned-would not have asked if you didn't say it.

You started off by saying

Originally Posted by cfc1909

I would like to know what 3 BL 460s you have owned? after that I will be willing to give some info.

and I immediately addressed that request for information...

Originally Posted by JP

Email me then and we'll talk about which I've owned and when.

....you just chose to ignore it, so now I'm going to ignore you. I'm not required to disclose every card I've owned or currently own. And to REQUIRE irrelevant information from me before sharing your BL460 information is childish. If you have valuable information to share with the board, then by all means, do it! If you don't, then feel free to keep your mouth shut.

Here's a quote from Leon....try to let it sink in....

Originally Posted by Leon

The guy just asked a question. I see no need for an interrogation. I would hope every time I say something on the board I don't have to prove it....

......If you can help with an answer to his question then great. If not, then please ask other questions of him by PM....

[cfc1909]

you think everybody is attacking you-I don't post negative posts. If I knew what 3 you owned, I could tell you if they are duplicates known or they are 1 of 1. I will keep my information to myself and not help but would have certainly helped if you followed through-you were the one asking and saying you owned 3. Could have been a good thread if you would have let it...

Go to my profile and read everything I have ever posted.

[JP]

What difference does it make whether the ones I've owned on random occasions over the last 25 years were 1 of 1 ?!?!?! I'm not buying them back, so I don't care!!!

Again, that has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on what this thread is about, which is the Cy Young. Like I said, you could've emailed me and I would've told you, I just didn't want the thread todevolve into a thread about the previous ones I've owned, or ones other people have owned, or any other BL 460s. I just wanted info on the Young and what the likelihood and effect of a find would be, that's all!!!

[Mikehealer]

To answer your question in your initial post, I say yes to paranoid. I don't know about the idiotic part.

[JP]

Originally Posted by Mikehealer

To answer your question in your initial post, I say yes to paranoid. I don't know about the idiotic part.

I appreciate that....I can just imagine what it would've been like to have owned a high-grade Drum and then hear news that there was a Drum find of 70 new Drums (which represented an increase of over 50% of the known Drums at the time)....

Some cards I don't care about much, and am willing to turn over quickly if the opportunity presents itself. Other times I put it in the SDB at the bank and then never think about it being on the market again...the Young would be one that I'd try not to think about ever moving again, but bigfish is doing a good job of talking me out of going after it.

[Potomac Yank]

Jamie/Blunder thread?

You know the one ... the one where he was asked for a back scan of the card that he was selling ... or was he auctioning it off?

[Mikehealer]

I'm a little confused, if you really want the card and don't plan on selling and
the money isn't a problem then just outbid everyone and be happy. It's that simple.

[JP]

Originally Posted by Mikehealer

I'm a little confused, if you really want the card and don't plan on selling and
the money isn't a problem then just outbid everyone and be happy. It's that simple.

You're right...I'm overthinking it.

[M's_Fan]

Let's face it, nobody on this board or anywhere else can tell you if a "big find" will ever happen. It sure seems unlikely. That is a gorgeous card.

[JP]

Originally Posted by M's_Fan

Let's face it, nobody on this board or anywhere else can tell you if a "big find" will ever happen. It sure seems unlikely. That is a gorgeous card.

Agreed. Though, the question posed WASN'T whether a big find would ever occur, but rather if one did, would a Young be more likely to be in it than a common like O'Leary....

[Leon]

Originally Posted by JP

Agreed. Though, the question posed WASN'T whether a big find would ever occur, but rather if one did, would a Young be more likely to be in it than a common like O'Leary....

Off the cuff, and with what I have observed, I don't think a find is likely to have a Young. I however think there very well could be another BL460 Young, or two, that turns up over time. I have always, and still do, think there is a ton of pre-war cards still waiting to be brought to the hobby. I am optimistic.
This very thing just happened under my nose, btw. Heritage has only the 2nd D304 Cobb with Martens back I have ever seen. Did the value of the other (known) one now go down, I don't know? It's the risk you take when you collect rare, or scarce cards. regards

[Potomac Yank]

A couple of years ago, a friend of mine, a well known collector/dealer from the west coast ... we were talking about a very large lot being offered on eBay that we were interested in.
It was a large lot of T209 Type 2's, asides from having some tough cards in it that I needed, the ones that really stuck out were three B. E. Thompson cards that I didn't need ... go figure.

In answer to your question ... It can happen!

[E93]

The BL 460 Young is without a doubt an incredible card, and probably one of a kind in the hobby. It has it all: player, rarity, condition, set desirability, etc., etc. I have seen the card in person. It is phenomenal! I doubt the winner will have buyer's remorse.
JimB