The disappearing caramel cards

[tbob]

Just wondering if it is due to: 1) the economy 2) caramel card hoarding 3) buyers are more collectors now than speculators and the cards are going in to collections and/or 4) they are truly scarce and things have just dried up.
The reason I ask is that the E94s, E97s, E98s and of course the E99s and E100s are nowhere to be found on ebay. Even cards which were relatively plentiful from time to time on ebay like the E95s and E96s are AWOL.
Anyone have an idea?

[three25hits]

I think the main issue is ebay, not caramel scarcity...

[caramelcard]

I agree. Ebay has alienated too many sellers.

The economy has a bit to do with it as well. If I had a bunch of newly found e94s that I wanted to sell, I wouldn't sell them right now.

If I did sell them, the last place they would go right now is ebay.

Caramels have taken a bigger hit than most types these past two years.

Rob

[smtjoy]

I am seeing the same thing, last year I picked up 8 cards for my E93 set and have seen very little this year, other than BINs, in the condition I am looking for. I think I have added one card so far this year.

[Leon]

If you did buy caramel cards 2-4 years ago this might not be a good time to sell them and try to recoup your money.

[Potomac Yank]

I'm for converting Investor/Flippers into Curators or possible Collectors.

These may not be the best of times, but if it weeds out some of the non hobby participants involved in what is suppose to be a sublimation ... Hobby Collectors will benefit.

A good example is right here on this forum.
A good forum, but a little top heavy with investors, another group that really believes that they're collectors, flippers, and a small cadre of collectors.

You can tell the difference between the two by reading a thread.
If it's deep into the card, and it grabs you ... Collectors are involved.

It is impossible to miss The Wall Street mind set thread.

To have all of the above involved in a forum is not a crime ... what I'm saying is, we need to tip the balance more towards the collectors.

The collecting part has been too diluted.

[Rob D.]

Did Dr. Koos have any caramel cards?

[daviddbreadman]

Excuse my ignorance and off topic shoot, but who is Dr. Koos? This is the second or third time I have seen this Dr. mentioned somewhere recently.

[Potomac Yank]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Did Dr. Koos have any caramel cards?

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I thought that was funny ...

Sorry he didn't ask for the price, because that would've reinforced what I was talkin about.

Leon, you're gonna have to do somethin about dat search engine.
The diggers want to know about Dr Koos, and brain pickin is all they know.

[E93]

TBob,
I heard there is a guy hoarding nearly six complete E94 sets.
JimB

[ethicsprof]

ebay offers very little of anything lately methinks.
i remember just a year or two ago, i was checking it over and over on the weekends particularly.
now i check seldom.
now BST is a different story, thankfully.

best,

barry

[Mark]

Originally Posted by tbob

Just wondering if it is due to: 1) the economy 2) caramel card hoarding 3) buyers are more collectors now than speculators and the cards are going in to collections and/or 4) they are truly scarce and things have just dried up.
The reason I ask is that the E94s, E97s, E98s and of course the E99s and E100s are nowhere to be found on ebay. Even cards which were relatively plentiful from time to time on ebay like the E95s and E96s are AWOL.
Anyone have an idea?

tbob
I don't fully understand the differences among the last three choices. Does "hoarding" mean holding on to a bunch with an intention to sell later, when the ecomony improves? So aren't 1 and 2 close to the same thing? 3 and 4 also sound similar to me. In any case, and I wouldn't be surprised if 3 or 4 have contributed to make E cards harder to find. Almost all of the E issues are very limited in number, and if only a few people suddenly decided to collect a given set, it would be noticed. Beyond the reasons that you have brought forward, there may be another reason for the disappearance of the caramel cards. Yesterday, I was reading over the renewal notice for my collectible insurance and noticed a clause that says that the company does not cover "mysterious disappearances." I don't know how often baseball cards vanish into thin air, but maybe they sometimes do. I do know, however, that if they do, the CIA isn't paying for it!

[Exhibitman]

Why would anyone sell tougher stuff right now unless they had to? Prices are down, costs of sale are not. Better to hold and wait for a recovery before selling, all things being equal.

Now is the time to buy cards you didn't get before the bubble economy run-up in prices. Rarely in life do you get a do-over...

[sesop]

i've noticed the same. i've taken a lot of beatings on ebay over the past few months, so the only stuff i've been selling are cards i either (a) don't mind taking a huge loss on or (b) don't think the loss is going to be as bad as it could and likely will be.

i can see how a time like this could be tempting for an investor to pick stuff cheap, but i can also see how a time like this could make it tough for someone to risk putting a card they love up for sale knowing that the economy may make it impossible for the hammer price to be as high as it would have been a year or so ago.

for a while it did seem like the caramel cards i need were nowhere to be found, but in the past couple of months, in spite of the complaining i've done about not being able to find anything, i've managed to snag two e98 hippo vaughns, an e94 dougherty and an e97 b/w austin. anytime i start to feel like there's no hope for the e94 kleinow or e97 hemphill i need, i remind myself that a few months ago i never thought i'd snag the dougherty, and i did...

[tbob]

Originally Posted by E93

TBob,
I heard there is a guy hoarding nearly six complete E94 sets.
JimB

JimB- Touche'

[tbob]

I've noticed that over the past couple of years that the turnover on caramel cards has really dwindled. You don't see people flipping caramels like you used to and my theory is that the cards are being bought and going in to collections in closets, safety deposit boxes and vaults, rather than being re-sold. Maybe it is because I keep an eye out constantly for caramel cards but it seems like tobacco cards are flipped or re-sold much more frequently than caramels.
When I mentioned "hoarding" I didn't mean stocking up with the intention of re-selling when the economy turns, I meant that they were being purchased for collections not for re-sale. I guess I didn't make myself clear, so 2 and 3 are similar.

[Potomac Yank]

Originally Posted by tbob

I've noticed that over the past couple of years that the turnover on caramel cards has really dwindled. You don't see people flipping caramels like you used to and my theory is that the cards are being bought and going in to collections in closets, safety deposit boxes and vaults, rather than being re-sold. Maybe it is because I keep an eye out constantly for caramel cards but it seems like tobacco cards are flipped or re-sold much more frequently than caramels.
When I mentioned "hoarding" I didn't mean stocking up with the intention of re-selling when the economy turns, I meant that they were being purchased for collections not for re-sale. I guess I didn't make myself clear, so 2 and 3 are similar.

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Tbob, are you saying that there could be some COLLECTORS involved?

Heavens to Betsy, what is this hobby coming to?

[Bosox Blair]

Maybe all of these things, to some degree. No question many of them are truly scarce, but as you point out, it seemed that they used to be more available, so something has changed.

Having said that, I have gotten some very nice deals on some caramel cards in the last 12 months.

Cheers,
Blair

[shammus]

Personally, I think it can be broken down into two large categories -

1. People with cards to sell have noticed prices dwindling on Ebay. The down market combined with Ebay's "unfriendliness" to sellers as of late has naturally caused many to rethink taking a chance on their cards doing poorly and prefer to hang on to them for the time being. Many of these people might also be relatively unfamiliar with house auctions and/or our forum here so they might not be left with an alternative besides to just wait for things to get better.


2. And this applies to me....I've bought a lot of cards in the past few years when the market was strong and unfortunately, VERY strong in some cases. To auction them off now means I'll certainly be taking a loss on things. I'm definitely still a collector but the investor side of me doesn't want to see me losing money on my cards. I still sell things on BST quite a bit, but there I get to pick my own price, at least break even in most cases, deal with people I know and not have any "costs" associated with selling cards the way I do with Ebay/Paypal.

[brookdodger55]

Excellent Post
I think many people are in the same boat as you and myself are.
Could not agree with you more

[Potomac Yank]

I don't mind paying higher, or losing to a competitive collector.
I don't have the same feelings when I compete with a flipper.

I keep track of what the flippers pay for their future inventory.
I fiercely support their stand on holding off until the prices go back up.
How much of a loss, will depend on how long it will take them realize how bad it is, as the prices keep dropping.

We're talking about future Curators in the making.

I would feel bad, but hey, they cost me a lot of bread in the past.
It's their turn to be a macho.