Stirling Sports Card Catalog

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Posted By: jims

I recently acquired a copy of the Stirling Sports Card Catalog published in 1977. Apparently it was an attempt to update the 1960 ACC and to implement a new numbering system. Does anyone out there know more about this catalog and why it failed to accomplish its goal?

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Posted By: Denny Walsh

Leon, ohhhh Leee~on.....
Good Question! Leon might know a bit bout it...

Life's Grand,
Denny Walsh

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Based on my limited experience, Id say that the goal of that publication is inconsistent with the general objectives of the hobbiests.

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Posted By: Rich Klein

1) I have this book; tis a really neat little reference

2) The period of 1975-79 is a fascinating one in hobby history as there is a vacuum of centralized check listing and pricing. Until Dr. Beckett produced the 1st BB Card book in 1979; there were actually several attempts at producing card checklists/price guide books. Some good; some not so good; If you look at the works then and compare them to a Krause/F&W Standard Catalog or a Beckett Almanac; it's amazing how we got from point A to point B.

Regards
Rich

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Posted By: leon

Personally I have not heard much about this publication. The Sports Collectors Bible (Bert Sugar) did the closest thing to an ACC update in 4 different versions...from about 1979 to 1983/4.....They got progressively better and many of the SCB numbers have stuck with us. Sorry I can't help on the Stirling one but I do believe I have read about it in some old trade rags....regards

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

Is that the guide that tried to use 4 digit set numbers after the alphabetic identifier, a'la W4602? Between that and the Sports Collectors Bible using their own numbering system (slightly altering ACC numbers)the 70's were a time of turmoil I guess.

The ACC updates (in Chris Benjamin's supplement) converted to a system that identified the year as part of the ACC number around 1968, which is a great idea. Why this was not continued is beyond me. You got the manufacturer and the year of issue from the ACC code in this scheme. To quote the Guinness guys "brilliant"!

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Posted By: Rich Klein

I have those old reference books scattered around in 3-4 different rooms in the house. While John has more hobby library stuff; I have a decent amount as well

Rich

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Posted By: Paul

I meant to bid on that catalog but forgot. Congratulations. I remember hearing it has some historic significance, but have no idea if it includes any information that is not included elsewhere. The Sports Collectors Bible came out at about the same time and is quite good.

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Posted By: Scot York

My brother knows John Stirling, I've met him as well. I haven't looked at John's book in a long time. I was always told, it was easier than Burdicks but, so different it never caught on. He's still around today and had a great collection. Most of his collection was sold long ago though. Smart Man.

[Archive]

Posted By: David Smith

If it is the same guy I am thinking about, he lived/lives in or around Indianapolis here. He owned some sporting goods shops around the Indianapolis area but they went out of business.

My Mentor and Stirling are good friends. I hadn't seen my Mentor for over five years but he recently came back to town. He told me about Stirling and his catalog/check list and showed me one. My Mentor said the ONLY reason it did not succeed was because it did not have any pricing information in it. He said that if Stirling HAD put a Price Guide in it, people now would be talking about Stirling's Guide instead of Beckett's.

My Mentor also told me he bought out Stirling's collection in the early 1980's. He bought EVERYTHING. He went to get a truck to haul the stuff in and Stirling decided during that time that selling everything was not a good idea. So, Stirling amended the deal and my Mentor accepted it. My Mentor took the baseball and boxing stuff and left the basketball, football, hockey and non-sports cards and memorabilia.

David

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Posted By: Paul S

Maybe slightly OT but I think this merits inclusion in this thread. The above titled is by Richard Egan, in Wisconsin, 1st Ed. 1969. It is 83 mimeographed pages (back-to-back), and is quite a feat considering it was compiled before the advent of computer spreadsheets. Here are just two scanned pages but in essence he lists, mixes, compares similiarities and differences such a player pictures and card stock, and describes in written detail (often much more than the current major cats.) E-s, D-s, W-s and more -- he even tosses in a few T-s when appropriate. Surely out of date now, but a great reference whose format could be wonderfully utilized today. Not sure if everyone here can read the scans but the first one shows the player, pose, position, and team across various team issues and sets. The second scan shows players by team across later issues. He really mixes and matches all the way through this. He mentions that he had previously done this with T-206! Anybody ever seen that? I tell you this kind of format is really convenient over flipping pages back and forth in a large catalogue. Would love to see something like this in a pdf.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

people above have said....tries to take the ACC a little bit further and expand on the ACC numbers a little bit. I think the ACC was so voluminous that it was difficult to outdo it. I havent picked up the Sports Collectors Bible or Stirling guides in a LONG time. Need to put that on my 'to do' list...........

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Posted By: bruce Dorskind

We first met John Stirling at the Cincinnati show back in 1976.

He had a strong interest in old cards and had a number of issues
with the recently published (1975) first edition of The Sports
Collectors Bible.

In that Bible Old Judges in excellent condition were $2-10 and Mayos
were 8-10 and Kimballs $5-10.

We acquired a number of rare cards from John and provided him
with some input for his price guide.

The guide was not well distributed and is reasonably rare today.

As it was privately published, it quickly vanished. We never found
it in Brentanos or Double Day where one could easily find all
the Sports Collectors Bibles one wanted.

Of course, Wharton Tigar's Legendary six part World Tobacco Index
was published long before Stirling and/or Bert Sugar's Sports Collectors
Bible...

All three guides (the World Tobacco Index has five volumes) are priceless
documents which begin to tell today's collector about the early days
of a wonderful hobby.

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List
(212) 734-7362

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Posted By: leon

Woops...my mistake..I said the first edition came out in 1979 earlier. THE Sports Collectors Bible was put out in 1975,1977,1979 and 1983.....The first edition had a lot of issues and they did get better as they went........regards

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

Here is a very obscure Price Guide from 1975. This is my original working copy, I had another that I sold years ago for the cover price. And yes, I will take that 52 Topps Mantle for $10 Mr. Dealer......

If no copyright issues are involved, it would be great if all these old zine-type guides could be scanned and uploaded to a website for viewing and use by all. Stirling, Egan (E and T?) this one and others (but not Sport Americana/Benjamin Guides) may be in the public domain by now.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I have both the 3rd and 4th editions of Burt Sugar's Sports Collectors Bible. Is there much of a difference between the two?

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

The copy of Stirling Sports Card Catalog that I purchased through the mail from Den's Collectors Den in the summer of '77 included a price guide supplement.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time- Den's Collector's Den.

Wasn't that Denny Eckes, who used to collaborate with Jim Beckett on the yearly price guides?

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Posted By: Paul S

Regarding Dave's comment about getting some of these guides, et al, scanned and available. Actually, earlier today I was contacted by another member of this forum about getting the Gum and Candy Card Handbook in pdf form for easy emailing to interested parties. We briefly discussed the issue of copyright. I said I would post a message here for the lawyers on the board. Here is what it says:

"Published by Sports Collectors' News
Copyright 1969 by Richard S. Egan

Reproduction of this handbook for sale in its entirety or any part or checklist without the premission of the copyright holder is expressly forbidden, Reproduction not for sale is permissable without the sonsent of the copyright holder provided the Handbook is quoted as a source."

Re the last part, the intent as I interpret it, is that parts, as opposed to all, of the Handbook could be reproduced since it asks to be quoted as a source.

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

Barry,

Yes, you're correct. If I remember correctly, DCD catalogs featured primarily supplies and reprint sets and maybe a few newer issues. But being in my early teens, I still thought it was cool to be able to order reprint sets just to see what the older cards looked like. Plus, they looked nice in the sheets and albums I also ordered, displayed right next to my RC Cola can collection. Anyone remember those in 1977 and '78?

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Posted By: Rich Klein

Was the plethora of Farrah Fawcett pictures randomly inserted into the pages.

IIRC, Denny passed on April 15, 1991.

Rich

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Posted By: barrysloate

I did know Denny passed away quite a few years ago.

And weren't the Farrah Fawcett pictures in Bill Heitman's "The Monster"?

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Posted By: John S

Rob,

My first mail orders were done with DCD...I believe they were '70's Topps football sets. And I do remember the RC cans!

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Posted By: Rich Klein

I believe Denny published that book as well

[NonSportDaniel]

Originally Posted by Archive

Posted By: Paul S

Regarding Dave's comment about getting some of these guides, et al, scanned and available. Actually, earlier today I was contacted by another member of this forum about getting the Gum and Candy Card Handbook in pdf form for easy emailing to interested parties. We briefly discussed the issue of copyright. I said I would post a message here for the lawyers on the board. Here is what it says:

"Published by Sports Collectors' News
Copyright 1969 by Richard S. Egan

Reproduction of this handbook for sale in its entirety or any part or checklist without the premission of the copyright holder is expressly forbidden, Reproduction not for sale is permissable without the sonsent of the copyright holder provided the Handbook is quoted as a source."

Re the last part, the intent as I interpret it, is that parts, as opposed to all, of the Handbook could be reproduced since it asks to be quoted as a source.

I pick up just about every card reference book that I run across, but have never run across Egan's book. Do these ever turn up for sale? Is there a .pdf version available? Thanks in advance.

[dstudeba]

A few days ago Leon sold one :

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=112999

[Leon]

I think the Egan book is the one being asked about. I sold a Stirling book and already had one for myself....I have an Egan one, thanks to Frank W., but I only have the one...Not sure I have seen one for sale either.

[GRock]

After looking at this thread I dug my copy out and leafed through it. It's pretty neat, I picked it up at "Johnny Sports Nostalgia" in Anderson, IN in the early 80's as a wee little tyke.

[NonSportDaniel]

It is indeed the Egan book that I am asking about. I picked up the Stirling book several years ago at Midway used books in Minneapolis. Would love to have a copy of the Egan book if anyone has one available. I'd be excited to get an electronic copy in lieu of the original paper version, if anyone has a file that they would care to pass on as well.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by dstudeba

A few days ago Leon sold one :

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=112999

Zoinks! 'tis true.....