What percent of your life savings is in Baseball Cards?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jamie

So what percent of your savings is in baseball cards? For me, it is about 30%. Good, but kinda scary when I think about it.

I'd love to hear from others... just curious.

[Archive]

Posted By: James Feagin

What savings???

[Archive]

Posted By: Jamie

James,

I think the answer for you would be one hundred

Jamie

[Archive]

Posted By: bruce Dorskind

Whilst this is an interesting question, we think it is highly personal
and secondly it would be impossible to assess a fair market value.

The value of a baseball memorabilia collection is the value it realizes
when it is sold. Not a dollar more or a dollar less.

When we auctioned about 25% of our collection in 2004, we were stunned
to see the prices that some items realized. We also saw a number of items
which we had insured for thousands of dollars realize a price well below
our expectation.

A major collection is likely to includes cards and other items. And the only
accurate way to assess value is mark to market. That said, we also believe that
many of those Board members with large and valuable collections are not likely
to sell unless an unexpected dire event occurs. Accordingly, the only value
they have is insurance value--and that is unlikely to be an accurate predictor
of market value.


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

[Archive]

Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

More than I would like to admit! Although the cards have outperformed the market as of late (at least theoretically).
-Rhett

[Archive]

Posted By: Jamie

True that it's kind of personal. Sorry, I don't mean to be a busybody!

Though it's interesting as a factor of value - I mean based on estimates - and then subtract around 20-25% cut for the auctioneer. Mark-to-market is very true, and one can only guess, but still, having a grasp of the worth of one's cards, imo, is vital. When you know what your cards are worth, it helps manage risk.

Look, we all love cards - but we have to be honest with ourselves. Vintage cards is a very small market. Volatility is very high. Sales are very unpredictable. There is a significant amount of risk associated with almost any card, and the entire market itself. This is not to discourage people from buying cards. To the contrary, it is just about value, and begs the question, are we being financially responsible? Or does our "passion" interfere with reason and common sense?

[Archive]

Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

Jamie, I think you will find passion almost always interferes with reason & common sense, not just with baseball cards! So, that should answer your question.
-Rhett

[Archive]

Posted By: Mike

Probably about 5-10% twelve months ago. A few bank bailouts and subprime mortgage meltdowns later, I'd hate to calculate. I wish it would have been more. Very good question.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jamie

Good point, Rhett. It certainly does for me!

I read that it was Blake who said that "If a fool continues ardently upon his path, he will arrive at wisdom" (I'm paraphrasing). Anyway, I know the experience! But it sure is more fun! Doing the "reasonable" thing can be so dull. But still, sometimes it does have to be done...

Jamie

[Archive]

Posted By: CN

Jamie, I feel like this question is too personal for a high quality group like ours. I know of at least one group who is offended. CN

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

ZERO.

Anything I consider savings or investment is in something other than baseball cards. And yours should be too. Invest in a home, IRA, college education for a kid or grandkid. Buy 5 or 6 acres and plant hardwood seedlings, tend to them a few years so they get a good start, about 3 dozen years later someone will reap a great benefit from that investment.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jamie

Frank,

Great point. But hardwood seedlings? I don't know. Will the price of timber rise? I know that commodities prices are dropping as a whole. Though I am seriously considering getting into organic farming. If I had the dough, I would definitely splash in on some farmland, after prices got finished collapsing.

Cheers,

Jamie

[Archive]

Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I'm in total agreement with Frank. While there's certainly some value to my collection, and while I occasionally sell parts of it, I don't consider it to be my savings. My savings exist in more traditional vehicles. If I buy a baseball card I buy it with disposable income that I would otherwise spend frivolously.

A year ago or so, I was considering selling my entire collection to fund the purchase of a beach house. I am SO glad that I didn't do it. I'd be underwater on a mortgage today, and I would have no baseball cards. I would have traded something that has a DEEP personal value to me, for a big mortgage and a two-week annual vacation.

While I definitely acknowledge that there's a certain degree of monetary value to some of the items in my collection, I just can't look at it that way. The day I start looking at it that way, I'm out of the hobby.

-Al

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Prizner

I don't even know you anymore Al.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan McCarthy

That's a tough question, because it really depends on your definition of life savings. My baseball card/autograph collection probably represents about 50% of my assets, the rest divided between coins, musical instruments, and a Roth IRA. However, if I consider my savings as IRA & bank accounts (which is what I do, as I am not planning on selling my instruments or coins unless I fall upon really hard times), then my baseball collection represents about 200% of my life savings. I do expect to have to sell some of my collection soon to pay for tuition, but luckily I have a lot of modern cards to sell before I even consider touching the box of tobaccos.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joann

Great question Jamie.

I am with those above that say that the value of my cards relative to my life savings is zero - I don't look at cards as savings at all. However, regardless of how I look at it my cards are still part of my net worth whether I intend it or not, and maybe that's a better question in my case.

A year ago I might have said less than 5-10%. Now it might be twice that, not because I've bought cards (I stopped almost completely in 2008 because of home repairs and a major vacation) and not because cards have appreciated, but because everything else - investments, house, savings, etc - has tanked so bad that cards have really jumped in terms of their place in my net worth.

However, onward and upward! When I get into work today, I'm going to change my 401(k) contribution to add the last bit I need to max it out. I'm thinking I won't have another market buy opportunity in my lifetime like I have right now, so buy buy buy! So I'm hoping that in a few years my cards will be a miniscule portion of my net worth, and not because I've gotten rid of cards or because those have tanked, either!

J

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob D.

Zero.

[Archive]

Posted By: LetGoBucs

I have financial spreadsheets that track my savings and investments but there isn't a column or row for baseball cards.

If I compare what I think my cards could be sold for in a quick sale then its about 5% of what my current savings & investments are worth. If I took my time selling it...put the rare items in a good auction, sold off the desireable items on ebay, and then the rest to a dealer then perhaps its 7 or 8%.

I think your better off never counting things like baseball cards, stamps, coins, antiques, cars, etc as part of your net worth. That provides you with a cushion and also prevents you from "cheating" on your savings.

[Archive]

Posted By: Fred C

Nada

[Archive]

Posted By: Jerry Hrechka

This thread got me thinking, so I compared the total price I've PAID for my card collection to the current value of my 401K ( Fortunately, last spring I went to 90% Bonds & 10% Stocks).

The total of what I paid when buying cards is 5% of the funds in my 401K.

[Archive]

Posted By: Eric Brehm

I don't consider baseball cards to be an 'investment' because when I buy them I have no intention of re-selling them. (By contrast, things like stocks and bonds are always bought with the intention of re-selling.) I do occasionally sell cards when I have some duplicates, or items that I picked up and then later decided they didn't fit in with my core collecting interests.

I do certainly consider baseball cards to be an 'asset' however. If I needed money for food, clothing, or shelter, or anything else essential to everyday life, that would be a place I might have to turn to raise the funds. Hopefully that won't happen. And the cards that do remain in my permanent collection might someday be part of my estate that will pass to my heirs, and possibly will be taxed by the govt at that time. Hopefully that won't happen either (i.e. the kids will be able to keep them without paying any estate tax). So I do a careful accounting of the cards that I have, how much I paid for them, and what their current market value is.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe D.

Rob.... zero?

I will pay you double that for your collection.
Deal?

Alright.... triple.

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve

2%?

Steve

[Archive]

Posted By: Doug

About 65%.

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob D.

Joe,

I didn't mean to imply that I haven't spent money on baseball cards and/or memorabilia or that my collection doesn't have monetary value. I just haven't invested what I consider "savings" into it.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe D.

Rob.... what are you saying.... we don't have a deal?

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe D.

Doug....

65%!?!?!?!

I would love to do that. But my wife sort of keeps me grounded.

I've said it before.... if I wasn't married - I would have a T206 Wagner right now. I'd probably be living in a cardboard box eating ketchup sandwiches. But I'd have my Wags.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tony Andrea

Joe,
If I came up with half for the Wags could I live in the box with you? I'd supply my own ketchup sandwiches and take the trash out for us on Tuesdays and Fridays.
Oh by the way, my answer to the question at hand is roughly 15%.

Tony A.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

I have a hell of a lot more than I probably should into my cards vis a vis my other assets. Thank GOD I do....I don't know what the percentage is but it's a lot more now than a year ago. Some of my best cards (I do consider them investments) are bringing 200% of what I bought them for....My largest IRA (401k) is down 60%.....Lets see.....down 60% or up 200%.... I am not saying that is the way it will continue but it's a fairly persuasive situation today...best regards

[Archive]

Posted By: Bilko G

at least 25%, maybe more like 35%

[Archive]

Posted By: Doug

"Doug....

65%!?!?!?!

I would love to do that. But my wife sort of keeps me grounded.

I've said it before.... if I wasn't married - I would have a T206 Wagner right now. I'd probably be living in a cardboard box eating ketchup sandwiches. But I'd have my Wags."

I'm not married so I didn't have anyone to talk sense into me before I put most of my available cash into a '52 Topps Mantle. I'm 28 so hopefully I will have time to build the funds back up!

[Archive]

Posted By: boxingcardman

I wish I'd not squirreled away a dime over the last 20 years but had spent it all on cards. I'd have a hell of a collection instead of a smoking hole where a pile of money used to be. And it would have been way more fun. Just remember: cards will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no cards.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

[Archive]

Posted By: JohnnyH

For me it's just a hobby I enjoy with the benifit of getting something back. It's definately entertainment. If my kids end up collecting I guess they will inherit my collection, if not I will end up selling it and taking the trip to Italy that I have always promised my wife, or just keep collecting and take the trip anyways. As long as you can make the mortgage payment, a solid house or land is the best investment over time, it will come roaring back once the dust settles, of course the key is location location location. Don't forget to invest in yourself and your family, especially if you have kids, have fun, take some chances, do what you enjoy, life is short. Happy collecting !!

[Archive]

Posted By: David Atkatz

I do believe Freewheeling Franklin said it just a bit differently, boxingcardman.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe D.

"Just remember: cards will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no cards. "


thats awesome.

[Archive]

Posted By: David Atkatz

Awesome. But a paraphrase of the original.

[Archive]

Posted By: Fred C

Leon,



The 200% up sounds great until it's time to sell off one of your "children"....

[Archive]

Posted By: James Feagin

The only investments I really plan on having are precious metals.

[Archive]

Posted By: brian p

I think another, more intriquing question would be: How much of your life do you have invested in baseball cards?

My answer--collector for 35 of my 45 years, with an rough estimate average amount of time spent being ten hours a week. I broke out the calculator, and I came up with 1.5% of my time awake as a human has been consummed by baseball cards.

Brian

[Archive]

Posted By: Anonymous

I have a rough idea of what I've got tied up in cards, but, all my purchases came from discretionary money. While I fully realize there is of course much value in what I have, those $$ are not looked upon as savings. I have investments which I do look upon as savings, but not my card collection.

I will say that I've got enough in cards to buy a new corvette Z06. Having owned two in the past, the itch does flare up from time to time, especially when I watch the Mecum Auctions on HDtheatre. I have no one to leave my collection to, and if I predecease my wife, she wouldn't know a PSA 1(OC) from a PSA 8 NQ, so, perhaps when the 60th anniversary corvette comes out in 2013 (assuming there is still a GM), I may well sell my collection and purchase a new corvette. Once upon a time long ago, I received a sweet phone call from an auto dealer..."Mr. X, your corvette is in". Ahhhhhhh, the joys of life!!

[Archive]

Posted By: peter ullman

I don't really know for sure...I'd like to get all of my cards catalogued on a spreadsheet with est values one of these days...but...as of today...factoring in the losses of the last 1 yr or so...my % of assets in antiques and collectibles is about 25% of my net worth...and the % of bb cards is about 15%...I wish it were higher...but these cards of mine are my only children...and I don't ever want to have to sell them for mustard sandwiches!

[Archive]

Posted By: LenK

never kept a dollar past sunset

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim VB

"and I don't ever want to have to sell them for mustard sandwiches! "


Ketchup! It's ketchup sandwiches!

[Archive]

Posted By: peter ullman

I much prefer spicy mustard sandwiches thank you...too much high fruc in ketchup...esp free ketchup!

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

When I was growing up in my very early days (pre-10yrs old) we would sometimes only have mustard in the refrigerator. We always had bread so I had mustard on toast, mustard on bread, mustard sandwiches etc.....Amazingly I still like mustard. The ONLY salad dressing we ever had, when we did have it, was Thousand Island. I still won't let that damn stuff (or liver for that matter) into our house. No way!!

Getting back to the original question. I actually made a decision about 10 yrs ago to invest in what I collect. I got out of all of my stocks and bought cards. I love them but if they have to go, they will. Need I say more? That and they are a heck of a lot of fun made it an easy decision. Also, a key point is that I take care of all of the household finances. If my wife did then I am sure I wouldn't have the leeway I have had...best regards

[Archive]

Posted By: Eric

For me, it's roughly 51% of my net worth is in vintage baseball cards, and I'm fine with that.

[Archive]

Posted By: JohnnyH

I never really liked mustard so I grew up on peanut butter and jelly, eggs and toast which I still enjoy today as well. Since we are talking cards as savings, what are the tax implications. Unless you do a private sale or sell for cash at a major show, are the sales reported ? Do auction houses report sales, since they only take a percentage who takes the tax hit ? Isn't the couple that just sold the Snyder and Peck going to take a 28 to 40 percent hit on income gain ? Once you get a card that is worth over 10,000.00 do you have to keep record of purchase price so you are only hit on gains, and if you avoid reporting sales and it is public record, what if you are audited and they find this out ? Just wondering how this affects the profit margin in the 'savings-investment' part of your cards.

[Archive]

Posted By: John

For me it's less than 1% at best, but my wife seems to think otherwise each time the mail arrives....

[Archive]

Posted By: Darren

0

[Archive]

Posted By: Eric Brehm

Johnny H -- you are a thoughtful fellow, I like your take on what is important in collecting and life in general.

Regarding the tax question -- that is fairly complicated and the technical aspects of it have been discussed here on this board before, including input from accountants who are experts in the field. Bottom line is you are liable to pay taxes on profits you make from the sale of collectibles, including baseball cards. Generally you can also take collectibles losses as deductions against other gains or income. How you do this depends on whether you are, for IRS purposes, classified as an 'investor' receiving gains on the sale of capital assets, or a 'business' dealing in collectibles. I have always done mine as an 'investor', and reported my gains and losses on Schedule D. I have no experience with declaring myself as a business, where I believe Schedule C comes into play.

In any case, my advice is not to refrain from paying taxes on profits just because you don't think the transactions will be reported to the IRS, because as you mentioned, you can be audited and held accountable for taxes due. (Or just because it's the legal thing to do, however you look at it.) In that event, if the IRS discovers unreported sales, I have no idea how they decide whether you just 'forgot' to pay, and then sends you a bill, or actually tries to prosecute you for evading taxes. One thing several tax experts have told me for sure is that you should keep good records of your collectibles purchases, so that you can prove what your capital gains were on items sold, because otherwise the IRS will assume that your cost basis is zero and you will end up paying more taxes than necessary. Apparently they do this all the time with things like stock sales. You need to know your cost basis, as accurately as you possibly can.