OT/....One of baseballs greatest teams?...Detroit Tigers

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

That's right. The Tigers getting Miguel Cabrera and Dontrell WIllis makes this one of baseballs greatest teams ever .Watch the run production this year, it will be sick .The year maybe over for ALL TEAMS!!!!!....thank the good LORD for my seats....10 behind 1st base on the aisle.

the team

1st base Carlos Guillen
2nd base Placido Polonco
ss Edgar Renteria
3rd base Miguel Cabrera
DH Gary Sheffield
r-field Magglio Ordonez
c-field Curtis Grandersom
l-field Jacque Jones
catcher Ivan Rodriguez

starters -J.Verlander-j.bonderman-D.Willis-K.ROgers-N.Robertson

this is SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK !!! GO TIGERS

edited over excitement of spelling.....yeaaaahhhhhhh!!!!

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Posted By: Steve

Not many American kids playing ML ball anymore.

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Posted By: Ben

The Tigers got Miggy Cabrera? HOLY SH*T. Likely the best young hitter in baseball. He's gonna explode in that lineup with such great protection.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Did the Tigers get Willis and Cabrera today? Wow, that's a big deal.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

also ,CHiSOx mgr Ozzie Guillen stated he'd seen Cabrera. He is eating the right things working out and has never seen him look better .This really is a very intimidating lineup....wowie !

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Posted By: barrysloate

So Dan, who did the Tigers give up to get them?

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Posted By: Ben

Easily a top 3 lineup in baseball, probably #1 assuming they gel early on. I think the batting order will look something like this:

1. Curtis Granderson
2. Placido Polanco
3. Magglio Ordonez
4. Miguel Cabrera
5. Gary Sheffield
6. Carlos Guillen
7. Edgar Renteria
8. Ivan Rodriguez
9. Marcus Thames/Jacque Jones/Brandon Inge


Boy is that an intimidating lineup. And so well rounded. The starting rotation is great too. You have every reason to be pumped for the season, Dan. They are gonna be real tough to beat.

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Posted By: paulstratton

Giving up Maybin, A.Miller and 4 other prospects is a stiff price...but worth it IMO. The whole lineup can rake! Let's hope the pitching stays healthy.

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Posted By: Seth B.

Ben, being a Braves fan, I think if Renteria is healthy, you gotta bat him second over Polanco!

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Posted By: jerms

when the red sox get johan--they will be the team to beat

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Posted By: barrysloate

That is a pretty wicked line up.

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Posted By: leon

I know who "pudge" is...

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

The top two prospects the Tigers gave up have a lot of potential -- but how can they possibly measure up to Cabrera and Willis? Great trade for the Tigers.

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Posted By: quan

if the tigers can sign MCAB to a long term contract i'd say it's a great deal for the tigers. seems like the marlins wanted to dump dontrelle's salary also. angels/dodgers must be pissed as they probably could've offered better deals/prospects.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

QUan....the Leyland and DOmbrowski connection had alot to do with it. The DOdgers or Angels didnt have the prospects as the Tigers. Maybin was ranked the #1 player. They say he has the all the Bonds tools w/o the roids. You should see him run.Seriously, he has an extra gear with arms flailing all over the place. He will steal 50 and hit over 30 hr's....just not sure what average he will hit. Miller 98-100mph lefty. BArry, they gave 4 other prospects as well.

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Posted By: cmoking

it sounds like you are excited and a Tiger's fan, congrats on the great trade.

However, based on this statment: "The Tigers getting Miguel Cabrera and Dontrell WIllis makes this one of baseballs greatest teams ever" ... if you really mean that, don't blame me for thinking you're a fool. But instead of thinking that, I'll just think you are just excited and a fan.

P.S. they won't win 100 games. wanna make a wager on that? cmoking@yahoo.com

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

While I do think the Tigers are top 3, I don't think their run production will be #1 next year - IMHO.

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Posted By: quan

yea maybin is REALLY good...maybe not a superstar prospect like a couple others but miller is not considered an elite pitching prospect like kershaw in la or joba/bucholz. i think the dodgers refusal to trade kemp/kershaw broke that deal and marlins wanted maybin instead of an if like kendrick or wood made the tigers the lucky sob . i thought the angels could've gotten it done and was excited to see cabrera in anaheim...oh well

will be fun to see cleve/detroit/boston/ny mixing it up next year.

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Posted By: Jimi

Ok, so what's the Top 3 teams now? I vote these in no particular order:

1) Tigers
2) Red Sox
3) Indians

Red Sox will be scary with Santana. The Tribe is not doing much shopping this winter....because they don't have to. The scary part about the Tribe is that they have an abundance of starting pitching available for trade. Gee, what a horrible problem that must be!

Jimi

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Posted By: Jimi

.....notice no National League team in my top 3.

Jimi

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Two thoughts: 1) The Sox with Johan is the best team in baseball; 2) the Dodgers do have the prospects: Loney, Kemp, Kershaw, Billingsley, etc.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

Willis doesnt make us the best , the overall will and your bet is on.Wrong choice of words.SInce you didnt put the line-up-up, here goes.

Granderson 302 -38 doubles-23triples-23hr's-26 stolen bases. Ordonez 363 and won the batting title(both leagues).GUillen- last 4 yrs -318-320-320-296. Cabrera 320 plus 4 straight yrs 110+rbis and Polonco 341 and NO ERRORS at2b, I believe no errors in over 180 games.ANothe year of Gold GLove for Rodriguez hit 281 , still lifetime is over 300 and hit 330 over 3 yrs different.Renteria 332 another all star,Sheffield 330 best year and will rebound off last years injury.NA JAcque Jones best year was 304.

ROgers- Verlandrer and WIllis have been 20 game winners .Bonderman despite an off year still throws 95 and then RObertson is fair.

NEXT

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

the Tigers were the Top run producers in both leagues last year .SO now add Renteria and Cabrera over Inge and Thames/Monroe ?

another bet sounds like to me.

this is an ultimate line up.MAtter of fact, I think that 8 of 9 have been an allstar.4 won g-gloves last year. FIve of the 9 did hit over 300.ANd 4-5 hit over 320.

NEXT

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Posted By: quan

it all starts with pitching and boston will be sick good if they get johan! channelling john buccigross...johan/beckett is to boston what lennon/mccartney was to the beatles???

detroit's pitching:
verlander...Ace and hella good
bonderman...solid 2-3
Willis...declining stats and will take further hit facing AL hitting
Rogers...isn't he 60 and due for a decline?
Robertson...don't know much about him but stat's average and typical 5th starter

...might not matter much with that offense!!!


yes yes finally a bet on n54! i know u guys like multiples or collect identical poses so i propose u each buy a graded card (red cobb sgc40 polar bear?) for the bet and the winner at the end collect both! certainly better than a mutual fund

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

I do agree with you on Santana and the SOx.TIgers will rest assure make the playoffs and out hit everyone. The SOx WILL NOT have the greatest hitting lineup ever....the Tigers have a real possibility of having the greatest hitters on a team at one time ever.

That proposal sounds good to me, Quan.....but I propose you to slash your prices and we will be good !

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Posted By: cmoking

Dan, I can see you are really excited, and you should be! I was just razzing you and having some fun. The Tigers won't be a lock, but they surely will be up there with the Yankees and Red Sox as favorites to win the whole thing.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

you are an EBAY trader and Iam a barbs trader, it's all good !

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Posted By: Anonymous

on paper tigers?

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Posted By: Brett

Just imagine the Red Sox after they get Santana

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Posted By: Alan U

Better hope Cabrera doesn't weigh 400 lbs. when he comes to spring training

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

see for yourself and then add 320 and 332 to the lineup

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Posted By: Mark

The Cabrera pickup is huge, and the Tigers will likely be amazing, but in terms of a "Starting 8" the team to beat is still the '76 Reds.

They had only average pitching, but won the Division by 10 games, and proceeded to sweep both the LCS and World Series. They had 4 players with Hall of Fame Careers. 7 of the 8 starters made the '76 All Star Team, with only Gold Glove Centerfielder Cesar Geronimo failing to make the squad.

The '76 Reds led the league in ALL of the following categories...

Runs
Hits
Doubles
Triples
Home Runs
Walks
Batting Avg.
On-Base %
Slugging %
Fielding Avg.

No other team has ever come close to accomplishing this.

Here is how I see the comparison...

1B Perez over Guillen
2B Morgan over Polanco
SS Concepcion/Renteria... tough one... call it a tie
3B Rose over Cabrera
LF Foster over Jones
CF Granderson over Geronimo
RF Ordonez over Griffey
C Bench over Rodriguez

Some of these are very close, but I believe the '08 Tigers are superior at only 2 of the 8 positions. Does anyone disagree? Please be kind, as we Reds fans must often live in the past...

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Posted By: howard

I just looked up the '76 Reds, Mark. That was some serious dominance. They also destroyed the competition in the post-season, including a sweep of my Yankees. I think their offense was better than the current Tigers although I would take Miggy over Rose. BTW, Did you know their hitters also led in Ks? Goes to show how that stat can be misleading.

Dan, Rogers and Verlander never when twenty in a season although I suspect Verlander will next year.

And don't count out the Yankees as the top lineup, folks. They scored almost 1,000 runs this past season.

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Posted By: Anonymous

One fo baseballs greatest teams ever?

Come on - they haven't even won anything yet - they didn't even make the playoffs last year.

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Posted By: Brian

As a yanks fan, I am going to be the first in line at the humble pie eating contest. With this move, the tigers become on of the more powerful and age balanced teams in recent history. Their offense will be amazing, if the pitching stays healthy, they will be VERY difficult. Depending what the sox give up for Santana, they could be a team for the history books, dual aces in the rotation, and young to boot has given any die hard yankee fan a twitch in their eye.

I don't think that there is a move, short of giving up a box of balls for Haren, and a fungo bat for a decent first baseman, that will help the yanks. Perhaps finding the witch who took all of Damon's hitting abilities and getting her to reverse the spell and give him a throwing arm is a place to start.

Crap.

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Posted By: joe

This looks like a great trade. I really got tired of Inge's at bats. I just hope they don't try to put Cabrero in left field and leave Inge at third as writer Tom Gage implied in todays paper.

Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: Jim VB

<<ROgers- Verlandrer and WIllis have been 20 game winners .>>


Dan,

You realize by now, that this is incorrect. Rogers and Verlander have never won 20 (I think 18 is their peak.) Willis won 22 in 2005, 14 in 2003 and beyond that is a .500 pitcher. He always starts great and then fades. (Let's see how he likes Detroit weather in April!)

Anyway, I agree this is a great trade for Detroit. It makes them a much better team. Perhaps even the favorite to win their division. Let's not build a new wing on the Hall of Fame just yet.

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Posted By: J Levine

Unfortunately, pitching wins world series in my opinion and I think the Tigers are weak there. Dontrelle might have a little bump this year but not enough. Rogers is chronically hurt. Verlander has the potential of being hurt ala Kerry Wood and Mark Prior. Their bullpen is not what it used to as well, their middle relief is suspect (although, I think it will be better than last year). Let us not forget that Renteria, Sheffield, Pudge, and Polanco are aging and apt to be hurt. There are no sure things in baseball (I remember this exact discussion on the Cubs a few years ago...Wood, Prior, Rameriez, Soriano, Lee, etc.).

I think Detroit will make the playoffs but not sure they will overcome a team with dominant pitching (if the BoSox sign Santana, watch out!).

Joshua

PS Go Phillies?

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Posted By: peter chao

A lot also depends on Pudge Rodgriguez. For a catcher he had a great year at the bat, however, 2007 is below his normal standards.

Also, he is 37 which is old for a tough position.

But if he remains healthy and productive the Tigers could go all the way.

Peter C.

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Posted By: howard

I don't think Pudge is much of a force any more and as a catcher at his age it is very likely that his decline will continue. He had his worst offensive season in about fifteen years (below .300 OBP) and had his worst season throwing out base stealers.

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Posted By: James Gallo

First off, no way can you say this is one of the greatest teams ever especially before they have even taken the field.

I have seen many a team not gel and blow up!!

Second off I think you are over stating things quite a bit.

1st base Carlos Guillen Nice player strikes out a lot for the position and the power he gives you.

2nd base Placido Polonco Another good player but I think he hit well beyond himself last year. He is around a .300 hitter at best and could be =/- 20-30 points.

SS Edgar Renteria Another question mark. His AVG the last time he was in the AM was .276. Nothing great here at all.

3rd base Miguel Cabrera Killer pick up and as long as the weight is down should be solid.

DH Gary Sheffield He's over the hill. All offense is down will be 40 this year. I wouldn't be too excited about him doing much.

R-field Magglio Ordonez Good solid player and proven, but HR and AVG are all over the place. I doubt you will see another .363 season from him.

C-field Curtis Granderson Young guy had a break out year last year. Assuming he continues to bat .300ish and not .260 like in 06.

L-field Jacque Jones Another player that isn't so great. Both HR and SO dropped 20+ last year so I guess that balances out. Just an average player IMO with a .280 LT BA.

Catcher Ivan Rodriguez Will be 37 next year. Another guy that strikes out near 100 times a year. Average coming down and he defense isn't want it used to be.

As for the pitchers...

starters -J.Verlander- J.bonderman- D.Willis- K.Rogers- N.Robertson

I don't know what Willis has and that is a huge question mark.
Rogers is OLD and he has up and down seasons at best
I know nothing about Robertson.

That being said all I want to hear is that you got a little to exciting and although they will likely be a good solid team and near the top of the AM they aren't one of the best ever.

If you so stuck on the offense here is a team that I will bet will kill the Tigers in every offense category. The Phillies!!!

1st Howard .280 40-60HR maybe more

2nd Utley .300-.330 BA 25-35 HR Plenty of doubles

SS Rollins .300 BS 25-35 HR NL MVP Nuff Said

3rd a bit weak right now but if Iguchi comes back it will be a solid .280+ with lots of potential.

C Ruiz Young guy that is just going to get better. Very good defense and I will expect an AVG increase of 10-20 points.

LR Burell Gives you another 30 HR

CF ?? Not sure yet Rowand or see RF. IF Rowand comes back another .280-.300 hitter with 25-30 HR

RF Victorino A very solid young player with 15-20 HR 40+SB and a .280+ AVG.

Pitching well we got Myers, Hamels and the old guy Moyer. We got a closer in Lidge

There are a few holes, but I would say from an offense stand point they match up very well to the Tigers. Pitching may still need some work but the Tigers are relying on Rodgers and Willis who might be done, and the unproven Robertson.....

You jumped the gun just admit it. I will wait and see what the Phillies, Yankees, Bo Sox and the other handful of contending teams do but I would give the Tigers the WS yet.

James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: howard

James, Dan is just an excited fan and he overstated the Tiger case a bit. Looking at your post I see you did the same with the Phillies. No big deal that's what fans do.

The Yanks are gonna score more than both teams anyway : )

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Posted By: Ben

Phillies have a great offense too, but aside from Hamels, I dont see their starting pitching being good enough to go all the way. Their relief pitching is questionable too. Lidge has great stuff but he's not the lights out closer he was for that 2-3 year period a few years ago. We know all too well about the struggles he's had with his mental approach to the game. Are they converting Myers back to a SP, or are they still going to run him out in relief? (could never understand why they did that in the first place).

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

you arent even close in anything.This team has all 9 to hit 300. No team in the game has ever had that,yes....not even the great Yankee teams. I play and follow baseball more intensive then most on this board.This team could set a run scoring record, watch and see.There are a couple of post here just for chits and giggles...crap talk is all it is. There are 4 batting titles on this team.And 6 have hit over 330 in their span.

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Posted By: paulstratton

The Phillies play in a "bandbox", of course their numbers will look better on the surface. The Sox haven't gotten Santana yet..he may not go anywhere.

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Posted By: Wil Jordan

It looks like an older version of the Florida Marlins. Before they can be called a great team they need to win something. The questions I have are can they beat the Red Sox? Will the pitching hold up--because when it gets right down to winning a world series it is always about piching not hitter.

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Posted By: peter chao

Switching leagues is going to help Dontrelle Willis. The AL hasn't seen much of Dontrelle's unique pitching motion, he should win between 15-20 games next year.

Peter C.

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Posted By: shane leonard

What an awesome trade the Tigers did with the Marlins. Yes, the Marlins got two great players in Maybin and Miller, but Cabrera is the real deal. I agree with perhaps batting Renteria 2nd vs. 8th. He has much more power than Polanco and is a threat to steal than Polanco. Polanco is more a contact hitter which would be better served in the 8 hole or nine hole to allow the big boys to hit him in.

Nice trade and I like it because I have Pudge and Renteria on my fantasy team.

Shane

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Shane,

Perhaps a bit early to call Maybin and Miller "great" players.

I think Placido Polanco is an ideal hitter for the 2 hole. The guy hits .340, goes the other way frequently, makes contact and has reasonable speed. My bet is if Renteria hits .330 again he will bat 3rd in the lineup followed by Ordonez, Cabrera and Sheffield.

I hope Inge does not play 3rd. Manager seems to love him. Miggy may end up in left.

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Posted By: Ricky Y

Now that's a scary lineup! The Tigers (Dombrowski) did a great job in putting that team together in such a short time. Now if BoSox can get Santana ... I'd pay to see that series...

Ricky Y