T206 - the big 4

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Posted By: Eric

I'm curious... most of us consider the T206 set without the big four complete....

Of the big 4 we know Honus Wagner pricing is crazy...

How much would the others cost in say PSA 1 or SGC 10?

Eddie Plank
Sherry Magie
Joe Doyle NY Natl.

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Posted By: Rick McQuillan

Good question. I don't consider the T206 set "complete" unless all of the cards are present, even though the chances are good that I won't be able to purchase the big 4. Maybe the Magie is reachable, but probably not Doyle and Plank. The REA preview has a BVG1 Wagner that has an estimate of $100K+, so the other 3 should be less.

I'm interesting in seeing the estimates from board members who are more knowledgeable than I am.

Rick

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Posted By: Tim

I'm new to T206 but I have the PSA 1 as follows:

Plank $21,500 (REA 4/29/07)

Magie $6,500-$9,000 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370011131880

Doyle $48,000(T206.org Valuation)

edit to add Doyle info.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Nor, Demmitt and O'Hara.....I recommend putting together a complete Sovereign backed set which consists of 404 different cards..

Or, try a Sweet Caporal, Factory 30 set and you will have a complete set with 470 different cards However, you will need Plank.

In either set, you also don't have to hunt for those "pesky" Southern Leaguers.

TED Z

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Just a guess here but I would think the Doyle in "1" would be closer to $75k-$100k. $50k may be low.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

PSA 1 or SGC 10

wagner- 150K
doyle- good luck, virtually impossible to locate, when you do, you have to be so careful they haven't been tampered with...it is debateable (IMO) whether it should be part of the cards needed to acquire to complete the set...

depending on how they present:

plank- 15-17K
magie- 5-7K

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Consider a 523 card T206 set to be "complete". The Joe Doyle error card is virtually unattainable. There are actually
about 6 legitimate ones in collector's sets....and, Mike's cautionary comments regarding faked-up Joe Doyle's is very
good advice.
The initial error on the Joe Doyle card was caught very quickly; therefore, very few left the printing plant. I do not
expect many more legitimate Joe Doyle error cards will ever be found.

TED Z

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Posted By: Eric

I can't believe I missed that Magie auction on ebay in Jan

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Posted By: Eric Brehm

Isn't it true that the Doyle NY Natl variation wasn't even discovered until the late 20th century, and then several turned up at once? Make me wonder if any of them are legitimate.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

ERIC B

Why this Joe Doyle card was unknown until 1981 is a big mystery. But, it is absolutely a legitimate printing variation.
As we all know, the handfull of real Joe Doyle error cards are only found with PIEDMONT 350 backs. This is because
American Tobacco always printed the T206's on the PIEDMONT brand first. The same goes for the MAGIE card, that
can only be found with a PIEDMONT 150 back. There are 6 to 10 Subjects in the 150/350 Series that are extremely
scarce to find with the PIEDMONT 350 back....and I refer to them as Joe Doyle's "cousins".......shown here:




Regards,
TED Z

edited scan size

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Posted By: Eric Brehm

Thanks Ted Z, interesting stuff.

What to do you folks think about the BVG 1 T206 Wagner in the upcoming REA auction? Any guesses on what it will go for? REA's scan of the card is on the left below, along with two others of Wagners of comparable grade. I think the SGC 10 on the right sold at a Mastro live auction last year for $192,000:

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Posted By: Trae R.

I think the BVG Wagner will go $200k+ - it has a pretty solid image, compared to the others with creases through the face, etc.




---
"There ain't much to being a ballplayer, if you're a ballplayer."
-Honus Wagner

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Posted By: MVSNYC

The beckett example might sell for more because it is the extremely rare OVERSIZED variation...compare it to the other 2 next to it...

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Posted By: dennis

imo the becket is the nicest of the 3 (what trae said). i wonder if the price will be hurt by being in a becket slab? i do not think a card like this will go lower because of the economic fears. do others agree?

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Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus

Becket gave it a 1. It's not like they gave it something higher that people are afraid might not cross over. Assuming then that bidders don't feel Becket was not qualified to determine whether the card is altered (and being probably as high-profiled a card as they ever slabbed I'm sure they had everyone under the sun checking to be sure they didn't miss anything), what the card will ultimately sell for IMO will be based on its aesthetics. Of the three shown, I agree it is the nicest. And if the one Mastro sold last year went for $192k, then assuming the economy doesn't suppress the demand, I do think the card has a real shot to hit $200k.

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

The BVG has to most eye appeal. Can't tell on color/size as each slab is not scanned in relation to the others but the BVG looks pretty good for a 1.

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Posted By: LetsGoBucs

Followed by the SGC one.

We'll see if the economy doesn't impact....200K seems a bit rich with everything going on even for those with money to spare.

I do think its a nice card, but I'll vote for 162K.

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Posted By: Eric

So where can I pick up a PSA 1 Magie...? Anyone?

I would have loved that ebay auction but i was out of town at the time and missed it.

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Posted By: Adam

Eric - A PSA 1 Magie just listed on the B/S/T

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Posted By: cmoking

I agree the BVG looks the best from that scan comparison.
The end of the auction feels like a long way away. A lot can happen in 6 weeks to make people change their minds about bidding - in either direction. It will be fascinating to see the prices of big cards in the REA and Mastro auctions.

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Posted By: JimB

I agree it is the nicest. I don't think the BVG slab is an issue, especially in an REA auction.

As for the value of the other biggies from the T206 set, at the poor/1 level, it depends on relative appeal. A Plank would probably go for around 20k, give or take. It is impossible to say what a Doyle would go for. It just depends who is bidding that day. A PSA 2 went for $172k about ten years ago. A PSA 3 went in the low 50s about five years ago. But I would be shocked if any example went for under 40k, no matter how beat up.
JimB

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

If offered one of the 3 I'd pick the PSA one, and then bust him out.

At least that middle one has most of the color part of the card, the orange goes on up into the corners. On the other two the wear is past the white border and into the frame of the print. I see that faint vertical crease through the middle card's face, and I see that the orange on the left one is a bit brighter, I just like the looks of that middle card more than the other two. Still, I'd be agreeable to letting two of you guys having 1st and 2nd picks if I could have whichever one remains.

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Posted By: Eric

I believe the PSA has the best overall appearance... The borders look so much better on the PSA one...

Plus now it could bump to a 1.5 with their new grading scale!

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Posted By: peter ullman

On the wags...I disagree with y'all...I'd take the Beckett one for sure. I hate creases on or near the head!

pete in mn

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Posted By: Eric Brehm

I'd probably go for the Beckett Wagner too, for the same reason.

Here is a group of T206 rarities that will apparently be offered by Heritage Sports Collectibles this coming Spring (from a brochure they mailed out recently):

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

That Magie is pretty nice for a 2

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Posted By: Eric

is it true that only about an estimated 150 Magee (Magie) errors are known to exist?

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Posted By: T206Collector

SGC has done well to have all those cards in the same auction. Interestingly, the Plank and Magie were (most recently) submitted by the same collector/dealer/auction house -- they are on the same order and were listed sequentially next to each other on the invoice.

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Posted By: Ron

Well these two I have had for awhile. Want to get them out of there current holders but alittle afraid of cracking them out. Just thought I would show some of my T206's.

Regards,
Ron



edited scan size

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Posted By: MVSNYC

Ron- are you just wanting them raw, or do you want them in another company's holder (PSA/SGC)?

if it's the latter, you DO NOT have to crack them out yourself, simply send it to them, and they will cross them over for you...

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Posted By: Ron

MVSNYC,
Thanks for the info. But I have heard it would be better to send them in Raw
rather than in the holders. If you could believe it. These were both supposedly at
one time in psa 3 holders. I don't really plan on getting rid of them anytime soon.
I do think they are much safer in these holders .They were just in top loaders
with sleeve.

Regards,
Ron

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Posted By: Anthony S.

Six-pack and a hammer, Ron. Make a night out if it.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

Ron-

if they were in PSA 3 holders, there was a very good chance that they would have been "crossed-over" to a "3" by one of the other companies...

anyway, with such valueable cards, do yourself a favor and submit them the way they are and simply mark on the submission form that your minimum cross-over grades are "2's"

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Posted By: Eric

Ron,

Gorgeous cards.... I was lucky enough to purchase this yesterday!

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Posted By: Ralph

The T-206 set is considered complete when one obtains the Doyle card & the others(Wagner,Plank & Magie).The Doyle is in the same league as the Magie error.It was a human error.Only difference is as of now it looks like the Doyle card was caught sooner than the Magie error.But another angle to consider is there could be more Doyles just waiting to be found.Anyway you look at it my thoughts & opinions are simple:If the card is on the checklist it is part of the set.Just my two cents

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Posted By: T206Collector

...the Beckett Magie say "Magee UER" -- doesn't mean uncorrected error?

What a strang slip...

Oh, and do not crack before submitting to SGC. SGC will give you bumps in grade if the card warrants it -- even if you submit in another company's holder. Plus, you don't run the risk of cracking an altered card out and not being able to get it back in, which in this case would be rather costly.



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