Major Ebay Changes

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Posted By: Matt

Just got through reading about some of the changes ebay will be implementing effective February 20th and there's quite a bit that will affect many of us who buy and sell on ebay. Some that stuck out at me:

* Sellers may no longer leave neutral/negative feedback for buyers
* Sellers with a high monthly volume will have their items displayed first in search results
* Final value fees will jump to 8.75% of the first $25 (from 5.25%) and 3.5% of anything above that (from 3.25%).


The feedback change is an attempt to cut down on sellers leaving retaliatory negative feedback. The change to give more exposure to sellers who list many items a month stinks for those of us who sell of a single card here or there. The final value fee increase isn't that big a deal - it's an extra .80 they are taking from the first $25 and then an additional quarter of a percent after that.

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Posted By: Jason L

everybody is out to get the little guy!

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Posted By: DJ

I have no reason to use eBay anymore in the near future as fas as selling goes because it simply doesn't make any sense. They tell us the "GOOD NEWS" in regards to lowering the insertion fees, but then they fail to announce the bad news of tacking on over 3% on the back end. What will the changes be next year? No insertion fees and a flat out 15% at the back end? As a seller, it simply doesn't make any sense and I understand why auction houses (who utilized eBay) are leaving to do their own auctions...away from eBay.

DJ

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Posted By: Jeff Shepherd

I guess their theory is that by reducing the chance of negative feedback, people will be more likely to bid - thus resulting in higher Ebay final sale fees. I haven't read this release, but showing higher volume seller auctions first is ridiculous, in my opinion.

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Posted By: Matt

DJ - the final value fee bump isn't really that significant. Here is the link to the changes:
http://pages.ebay.com/sell/update08/overview/
You have to do some digging to find some of the issues I exposed.

I wonder how long it will take for sellers to figure out that they can leave positive feedback with a Nastygram thereby circumventing the new policy.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

So if a bidder doesn't pay for an item they can't get negative feedback for that?

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Posted By: Matt

Dan - if a buyer doesn't pay they must complete the ebay unpaid item process. Here are some changes that will kick in if the buyer doesn't pay.

* We will remove, not just de-score, negative and neutral feedback when a buyer doesn't respond to the Unpaid Item process
* We will remove all negative and neutral feedback and comments when a buyer (or seller) is suspended. We will also do this retroactively – which means any negatives and neutrals you've received from members we've ever suspended will be removed.

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Posted By: Dave

The BST section on this board never looked so good.

EBay was great when it started because the little guys could sell an item here or there. It's clear that ebay no longer wants those types of customers. They would rather have bulk "mini store" listings and clear a bigger cut on the back end. All those 10 cent listing days were their trials for these moves.

In essence it's becoming like every other shopping site on the net now. Ho hum. I sold my Cobby here a week or so ago for all of these reasons.

I may still buy cards there, but I won't be selling them there unless I have no where else to go.

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Posted By: Alan U

The limitation of 12 months kills my feedback, especially since I don't do that much repeat business. Mine will go from 1200 down to about 400.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dan- I was thinking the same thing. I just had a buyer renege and lie to me continually, but I was afraid to leave negative feedback because he might retaliate. Since I am primarily a seller and only an occasional buyer, might as well leave everybody positive (well I do anyway).

I will still sell on ebay but there is no doubt they have been hurting lately and they have to do something with their bottom line. And of course this will cut into my profit margin.

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Posted By: Dave

We'll be seeing advertising from real sponsors soon on Ebay. Whether it's on the main pages or sub category pages... who knows. They might even give you the option to put an ad on your listing for a break on fees...

Bet on it.

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Posted By: Red

Only the last 12 months worth of feedback will go into the calculation of the percentage that Ebay shows for you. So if you had 2 negatives 13 months ago you would be at 100% with the new "improvement" to the system.

On the other hand, if your 2 negatives came in the last 12 months then the overall percentage shown will be computed based on 2 out of 400 rather than 2 out of 1200.

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Posted By: George Dreher

I'm closing my seller account on April 30 due to this policy. Over 5000 positive feedback with 0 negatives, but that will change very quickly when they implement this. Just too many active crackpot bidders out there with less than 90% positive feedback. Toolhaus will become obsolete with no negative feedback on deadbeats, no way to screen them out.

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Posted By: Rich W.

For those of you lamenting how these ebay changes hurts the little guys who sell occasionally on ebay, let me tell you how it affects a regular seller.

I sell 75-150 tobacco cards per week on ebay. I start all my bids at $5.00-9.99. Thus, I will save 5 cents per listing. Plus I will save .35 per listing for Gallery. A total of .40 savings right off the bat (isn't ebay the best?!!). Now if my sales average $20.00 per card, the extra final value fee on EACH sale is $.70 (3.5% increase in final value fees up to $25.00). If I sell 100 cards per week, eBay gets an additional $30.00 per week, or $1,560.00 per year. If I can somehow garner the 15% credit for being a good Powerseller, then I may lower my overall cost down to a more palatable level.

eBay words this as if they have listened to the populace and have granted huge changes to benefit their customers. This is merely another shareholder-based, "economic" decision that allows ebay to further benefit from their monopolistic position.

Bottom line is most of us have to live with this monster. I can not imagine business without it, but my monthly bills to ebay and Paypal pain me.

Rich W.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I don't like the new system. However, a positive is it will hurt the sales of the numerous big time scammer sellers who use the ability to give out negatives as a threat against the scammed. These scammers keep their rating artificially high, and honest but unflattering responses about the product/service away from future buyers, by threatening to unfairly retaliate with a negative.

I assume this was a specific intent of the the new system.

Obviously, the rating system is now to large degree permanently f*cked up, in that a buyer-only never can have less than 100 percent rating even if they're into extortion and mail fraud, and a seller gets a vote but only between for Positive versus Positive (Sounds like a cross between Animal Farm and Prairie Home Companion, "Where all the Party Leaders are above average"). As sellers often usually buy using their sellers account (me included), this will spill into seller ratings.

And to I though PSA's new grading scale was convoluted.

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Posted By: Matt

david - that is what is designed by these changed, but I am doubtful it will actually help. The seller can still leave a really nasty note in the buyer's feedback as retaliation - it just will be marked as positive feedback.

BTW - it seems their new search results will deprecate the results of sellers who either don't sell often enough on ebay or have very poor feedback ratings. Talk about sticking it to the little guy.

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Posted By: Mike H

Nobody is going to sift through positive feedback looking for a negative response. That is going to have zero effect on buyers actions.

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Posted By: Lance

This is the "Ebay .5", new and improved, solely for the benifit of the customer, super system. I wish they would go to a flat yearly rate for the Power Sellers insertions and keep the rest the same.

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Posted By: Matt

Lance - "I wish they would go to a flat yearly rate for the Power Sellers insertions and keep the rest the same."

I could think of nothing few things worse for for my ebay experience then giving the powersellers free reign to list their ridiculously overpriced cards because they have a flat yearly fee. It would be like dump day everyday.

You know what would be a great improvement? If ebay charged sellers a penalty for re-listing an item that didn't sell within a month of the previous listing unless they lowered the starting price.

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Posted By: Bob

So my positive feedback will go from over 4800 to 447. Swell.
I also note that from now on you can get positive feedback points for every sale, in the past you were limited to one point. In other words although I might buy many cards from David Bryan, in the past I only got one point for his positive feedback, and he from me, regardless of the number of transactions. Now if some scam artist sells 100 items on ebay to the same person, a co-scammer, he gets 100 positive feedback score for it.
Yeah, this really makes sense....NOT

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Posted By: DJ

My point is that it's swarmy to make note of the lower listing fees and not mention the downfall, which is a higher back end cost to the seller. They made a big deal about how great this was on CNN. Yes, it will effect the little guy, for sure who does a great deal of business on eBay.

Let's say I have a Good conditioned Jack Chesbro T206 and it sells for $100.

It will cost me 3.5% more (about $3.50) extra now to make that sale, where I saved...what...a nickel insertion fee?

With eBay, it's all about nickel and diming you to death and as noted, we will have this discussion again next year. How much more can the seller take of this?

DJ

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Posted By: Bob Lamb

We are looking at this from a sportscard perspective . As we all know most auction houses will negotiate near 0% seller comissions for better, upper end items. I am sure this is the same with most auction houses dealing with antiques. But on the lower end stuff see what kind of percentage the auction houses will give and compare it to Ebay. There are several Antique auctions in my area I attend and the consignment rate is 20% for someone off the street and regular consigners get a break to about 15%. This is for lower end antiques and general merchandise. Compare this to Ebay and you will see that Ebay is still a bargain for selling your average to above average items. Not to mention the number of people who see your item on Ebay compared to the local auction. Seeing that over half of the people in attendance at these sales buy there to sell on Ebay, the prices realized at these auctions are much lower. So for the sellers of other antiques and collectables, Ebay is still by far the best option.

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Posted By: Andrew S.

<The seller can still leave a really nasty note in the buyer's feedback as retaliation - it just <will be marked as positive feedback.

Better go read the new TOS. It states that any negative comments left in a positive feedback for the buyer will be deleted and that action will be taken against the seller.

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Posted By: Matt

Andrew - ebays TOS are a joke - they are broken probably tens of thousands of times every day. People leave nasty feedback all the time that is against the current TOS.

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Posted By: Chris

Matt, Amen! Forget 5c listing days,it would be a continuous round robin of overpriced buy it nows.
I'm not a fan of fleabay and have played by the rules but it time for a new venue to rise up out of the ashes and take a market share from them.

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Posted By: Dennis W.

Just noticed that they're requiring some sellers to offer PayPal as a payment method. Any sellers that sell computers and/or cell phones, have a feedback rating of less than 100 or has 5% or more dissatisfied customers MUST offer PayPal.

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Posted By: dan mckee

As a seller, I am not permitted to leave negative feedback to a deadbeat bidder? That is crazy. I see what they are trying to do and I agree with that idea. I myself as a bidder will not leave negative feedback for a seller because of unwarranted retaliation. As a seller, I used to leave + FB as soon as payment arrived but then I had a knucklehead nix me immediately without communicating to me his problem so I never had a chance to correct it.

I think if ebay would allow a seller to leave negative feedback for a buyer only after the non paying bidder process is complete and there was no proof of payment by the buyer, then this would help correct the new system.

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Posted By: Matt

Dennis - even worse, all new sellers MUST take Paypal payments.

Dan - "I think if ebay would allow a seller to leave negative feedback for a buyer only after the non paying bidder process is complete and there was no proof of payment by the buyer, then this would help correct the new system."

Edited to correct myself - your concern seems valid. Initially I thought a buyer who fails the NPB process would have his account suspended, but it seems all that happens is a "strike" against him. Your suggestion would certainly help.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Their account is suspended from 1 NPB claim?? Yes that is worse but I can't imagine that happening. Plus it is a rush to blast a deadbeat knowing he can't wrongfully retaliate!

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Posted By: Matt

Dan - I correct myself above - you are right.

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Posted By: Tony Gordon

I run anywhere from 200 to 500 auctions on eBay each month. This new fee schedule will definitely increase my fees. But my main bone of contention is the loss of my ability to leave negative feedback for buyers. The threat of negative feedback is the best tool I have to combat fraud. For example, I used to leave positive feedback right after receiving payment from the buyer. However, several buyers a month would claim they never received the cards I had dutifully mailed. So in order to keep my 100 percent positive feedback rating and avoid a negative from the buyer, I would suck up the loss of the card and refund the buyer's money. To combat these no-receive claims, I decided to wait to leave feedback until the buyer leaves me feedback. As a result, I no longer receive any claims of buyer's not receiving their cards. After February 20, these no-receive claims are going to come back and there is nothing I can do about it.

Sure, some are going to say to stop refunding the buyer's money. If I follow that route, I will be bombarded with negatives and my sales will die.

I just finished reading a N.Y. Times blog on the issue and sellers across the country are outraged. On the Times blog, sellers are proposing a boycott of eBay from Feb. 18 to Feb. 25. I encourage all to participate.

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Posted By: Matt

Tony - "After February 20, these no-receive claims are going to come back and there is nothing I can do about it."

I agree with much of what you have said - however, wouldn't sending the cards with delivery confirmation combat the claim of non-receipt?

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Posted By: boxingcardman

If I search for "N167" is Ebay going to give me less relevant searches first because the seller sells more? I guess we will have to tailor searches more carefully to get around it.

I agree that the pricing structure is not to benefit sellers. No one complained to Ebay that they were paying too little, please jack up the rates. And a nickel discount for the listing fee? Thanks for nothing. A piece of Bazooka is a dime.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: Eric B

Tony, and the rest of you sellers, if the policy goes forth unchanged, then 100% feedback is a thing of the past and really, it's not important. Sure you will get some idiot negs, but so will everyone else. Sales volume will correct that.

The new era will mean that 95% feedback is excellent and below 80% is bad. I think this makes a lot more sense than 99.9% and above being good and 99.2% and below being bad.

I also think that blocking bidders will become more important. The bad apples will reveal themslves very quickly.

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Posted By: Tony Gordon

Matt,

Delivery confirmation is an excellent idea which I probably will do. The downside is that it will increase my postal costs. I also noticed that when I try to pass these costs onto the buyer, I see a decrease in sales. Last year around this time I bumped my shipping charge from $2 to $3 to combat eBay's 2007 fee increase. The result was that sales went into the tank. I sell low-end vintage, pre- and post-war, for about 10 to 25 dollars per card. I don't think buyers mind paying higher shipping when the purchase is a higher-end card but for my stuff, I can't charge more than $2 for shipping.

I really think my days as a seller on eBay are numbered. Last year I started setting up at more shows -- a trend I will continue in 2008. I live in Chicago and we seem to be the show capital of the world right now. There are also excellent shows nearby in Milwaukee and St. Louis.

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Posted By: Tony Gordon

Eric,

I hope you are right but I don't see buyers ever agreeing that 82% positive feedback is okay. I buy on eBay as well and will have a hard time throwing down a bid with a seller who has 90% or below feedback.

Market forces on eBay have not protected the seller in the past -- only the threat of a negative has protected the seller. There are too many scammers and it is so easy to have multiple registrations that blocking really isn't all that effective.

But I'll give this new version of eBay a try after the boycott and if it doesn't work out, I've got other options. I really think the old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" applies to eBay. The higher ups at eBay somehow feel the need to tinker with the site every year and make it less and less seller-friendly.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Everyone who sells regularly on ebay will negotiate the new system for a month or two and decide what they think. If it turns out it really stinks (and it doesn't sound great), they will lose a percentage of their sellers. Ebay is a good way to sell but there are alternatives.