SGC vs PSA

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Posted By: Jay

It isn't often that I get to see SGC vs PSA first hand but I did recently and thought I'd share my observations. I brought a group of cards to the Greater Boston Show, some to be graded by SGC and some to be graded by PSA. My SGC submission was for 10 day service; my PSA submission was a special on "5" day service. As of today my SGC submission has been graded and I have received it back in the mail. My PSA submission has yet to finish grading. Seems to me that SGC underpromises and overdelivers and PSA, well you can figure that out.

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Posted By: JK

Just one of the many benefits to using SGC.

I now use SGC exclusively and in the past 4 or 5 years, the only time SGC has ever been late grading and returning a card to me were on the few ocassions that I submitted while their graders were at a show - and then, it was usually only a day or two late. Most other times, they've been either right on time or early.

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Posted By: bamacollection

How many collectors are willing to pay the same premium for an SGC graded card as opposed to a PSA card in the same grade?

How many full time dealers think SGC brings more than a PSA card in the same grade?

I am completely unbiased on the subject. I think it's safe to say the majority of the board feels SGC offers a better service, but as an investment, are they the best bet?

Lance

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Posted By: JimB

I sent a couple of submissions to SGC the week before last: one two-day and one five day. The two-day submission had grades posted and it was shipped after one day. The five day was done and shipped in four! Gotta appreciate that.
JimB

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Posted By: Jay

Lance--I think it depends on the type of card. I would always pay more for a vintage baseball card in an SGC holder. If I was working on a particular PSA registry set(for me non-sports and post war misc sports) I would pay more for the PSA card.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Lance- I sell weekly on ebay, and do three catalog auctions a year. My results with SGC cards are equal to or better than PSA. Mind you, I'm not selling high grade registry cards, but for low and middle grade I think SGC has begun to pass PSA. There is simply more collector confidence.

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Posted By: JK

I agree completely with Barry. I think for the collector grade material, sgc is comparable price-wise to psa.

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Posted By: Lance

I guess it's fair to assume that "collector grade" equates to 5's or less? I would love to do more with SGC, but it just doesn't seem anybody trusts or is willing to invest the same amount into the SGC 6's and above. I believe this board is 90%+ pro SGC, but I haven't read where anyone will state they would rather have a card graded 7 by SGC over a PSA 7. My experience is completely in the T206 & T205 sets. I dabble in others, but I still have alot to learn about the trends. When the vintage stuff hits EXMT, does it become "investment grade"? Is the price effected solely on publicity or are there too few collectors of high end SGC to create a competition for the cards?

I really hope some of the lifetime collectors and dealers open up on these questions. I have been around collecting for awhile, but still feel like a "newbee" to most on the board.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Lance- in my last auction I had a T205 common in SGC 84 and it sold for $1100+. I don't know what a PSA 7 would sell for but I was hardly disappointed with the price, and the bidding on the last night was really strong.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Here's some higher-grade cards in SGC holders.

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Posted By: Lance

Al,

May I ask if you purchased the cards holdered or did you do the submission?

Barry,

Strong money on the common, but do you think it's going to be the trend?

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think SGC cards will continue to stay strong and get stronger, but I don't think that high grade PSA cards will slip however.

PSA has the set registry going for it; SGC has its high grading standards. Both will continue to do well.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Lance:

Each of those cards were submitted to SGC either raw, or crossed from another holder. My higher-dollar cards go to SGC (not that I have many), and the rest remain raw, unless I'm building a graded set like I am with T205s.

In the interest of disclosure, I should note that I have a professional relationship with the company, but that matters little - I was a customer first, and I post here as a collector. As such, I got the feeling that you wanted to see some 6s and above in SGC holders, and I'm happy to oblige, since I have a bunch.

-Al

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Posted By: Brian

Al,

Nice cards.

Is the Rube "black" or "blank" backed?

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Posted By: Anonymous

i'm the minority on the board... while i can say that SGC is very consistent and their cases look great... I prefer PSA.

quite simply put... my cards are just about always commanding top dollar in PSA cases. every time i sell something graded by SGC, it just doesn't seem to command the dollars its worth.

i can understand that a collector that never plans on selling their cards would prefer SGC... but for most at some point, its time to let things go, and unfortunately PSA graded cards seem to have the best return.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Black-backed, Brian.

Oops - hit "send" before I was done. I meant to say thanks for the comments.

-Al

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Posted By: Bruce MacPherson

I believe it depends on the card issue as noted above. For the sets I collect, primarily prewar caramel in low/mid grade, SGC seems to sell for higher or at least similar prices compared to PSA. I typically will pay more for SGC graded cards as they seem to be more consistent for these issues. I have no problem with PSA cards and many reside in my collection, but for resale, I send cards to SGC to obtain a higher price.

BTW, beautiful cards Al, especially that Feller. I kind of like the uncluttered look of the low numbers.

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Posted By: Lance

Thank you all for the insight.

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Posted By: JK

Lance,

I dont have many, but every pre war card that I have graded higher than a 60 or a 5 is in an sgc slab. I prefer SGC regardless of the grade.

In fact, if now, if I buy a high grade card, its going to be slabbed by SGC - Ive never had a problem with their grading. On the other hand, Ive bought numerous PSA cards slabbed in 5s or higher in the past that would not cross to SGC because of a missed wrinkle/crease etc.

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Posted By: Jerry Hrechka

The majority of my collection consists of 30's & 40's "R" cards. SGC graded Non-Sports cards are few and far between. When they do come up I can usually buy them for substantially less than the equivalent PSA card.
In the past few years I have purchased exactly 12 SGC Non-Sports cards (All SGC60's & 70's) at discounts ranging from 25 to 40% from the PSA equivalents. I cracked them out and sent them to PSA for grading. The 9 SGC60's came back PSA5 & of the 3 SGC70's, 2 came back PSA6 & one PSA5.
Just my personal experiences with the two grading cos. Never had any experience with GAI.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I personally would never buy a PSA card 6 or higher with out seeing the card in person. I have seen way too many questionable cards in their high grade holders. In my set of expertise, T202's, it is like they never look at the back of the card. I would not hesitate to purchase or bid on a highgrade SGC card they have never given me reason to question the grade.

Lee

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Posted By: T206Collector

...My T206 collection once had only PSA cards in it. When I decided to go with SGC I had 40 PSA cards crossed over--none were lower than PSA 3 and two or three were PSA 6. Most were PSA 5. Only 30 crossed over at the same or higher grade. The other ten were bounced because of trimming, creases/wrinkles and paperloss. My PSA 6 Chase Pink had a corner wrinkle that neither I nor PSA had seen. But SGC found it. I did not crack the cards prior to submission.

Anyway, I echo some of the other posts here--I've seen way too many issues in PSA 5 and higher cards to have any confidence in an online purchase of PSA material. I'd need to see the card in person or get a meaningful discount for the PSA card.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

Here are some of the results from the 1951 Bowman Carter Collection auction that just finished on ebay live on 11/18:

Campanella SGC 96 - $4956 - last PSA 9 $4868
Snider SGC 92- $2124 - last PSA 8 $557 last PSA 9 $7364
Schmidtz SGC 96 - $944 - last PSA 9 none
Mize SGC 96 - $973 - last PSA 9 $1847
Williams SGC 88 - $2478 - last PSA 8 $1775
Mays SGC 86 - $6785 - last PSA 7 $3650 last PSA 8 $15,799
Ford SGC 80 - $1150 - last PSA 6 $766

Some did better, some did worse but to categorically term SGC an inferior product in higher grades is simply incorrect.

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Posted By: Jimmy

I was at the Boston show all weekend and PSA had more submissions come in then SGC. I do agree that PSA needs to keep up with orders and customer service needs to improve. The point is that PSA does more volume then SGC overall because they have other services. Graded cards for pre 1930 do well for SGC and always have and even some of the 1930s and 1940s cards are doing well. Keep in mind that both companies are doing better than expected and Beckett and GAI prices for vintage cards just keep dropping.

Jimmy

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Posted By: Fred C

First off, I love these threads (SGC vs PSA). It's another thread where most people are in agreement about SGC being the "preferred" grading service of vintage collectors.

Adam,

Thanks for the price comparisons because it again allows me to chime in on the idiocy of collectors with more $$$ than brains. Sorry but I just feel this way. If you want to call me an idiot for voicing my opinion - please do so (that would be your opinion).

Snider SGC 92- $2124 - last PSA 8 $557 last PSA 9 $7364
Mays SGC 86 - $6785 - last PSA 7 $3650 last PSA 8 $15,799

Look at that price difference between a PSA8 and PSA9. Those cards could probably have been reverse graded (the PSA9 graded PSA8 and vice versa). This is SUBJECTIVE. Who knows, the SGC92 could be nicer than the PSA9. Look at that price differential. People are throwing there money at an OPINION.

Look at the price differences between the PSA7 and SGC86 Mays cards. Isn't that supposed to be a HALF grade difference? Then look at the half grade difference price paid between the SGC86 and PSA8 Mays cards. Seriously, again this price is being paid because of a number put on a LABEL.

In any case, I'd stick with SGC. Better holders, more consistent grading and better customer service is where I'd rather put my grading dollars.

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Posted By: Alan U

I haven't had any significant problems with either PSA or SGC although SGC grades are more likely to be available a couple of days early whereas PSA might be a day or two late.

I'm really in the minority because I really like the smaller clear PSA case, however, I don't like it when the card doesn't fit the case and it's just left to flail (sp?) around in the case.

As to value it seems like pre-Goudey cards are the same in SGC or PSA and for Goudey forward, PSA is better.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

I've never been a fan of the supposedly fine distinctions between the 8, 8.5 and 9 cards, let alone between the 9 and the 10 cards. To paraphrase the old joke about coke. PSA 10 is the universe's way of telling you that you have too much money.

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Posted By: Rob

I LOVE IT when a card is perfectly centered, has beautiful color like it was stored away for 50 years, great registration, and a surface wrinkle that i can't see but a grader can see with a microscope, cuz that means its getting a "3" rating and I can afford it cuz it keeps all the registry hounds away!!!! If it wasn't graded, everyone would consider it as NM/MT and it'd fetch much more money.

THANK YOU GRADERS!!
Rob

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

About 2 years ago I sold a T206 Bob Rhoades Arm extended SGC 84 for $2000. The same card in a PSA 7 holder sold this week for less than $700. Make the assumptions you want but if you buy the card not the holder you will happiest in the long run.

Rob,

I totally agree with your statement there are some beautiful VG and less cards out there.

Lee

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Posted By: Marty

I was set up in Chicago last weekend. I have three T206 Green Cobbs, a SGC 10, SGC 40, and a PSA 3. The SGC40 and the PSA 3 were priced the same. I sold the PSA 3. I do not think that the holder is what sold that card. The SGC card has a longer more noticeable crease in it and presented better. I believe that the card sold more than the holder. I have been getting more of my inventory in SGC holders. From observation, I know that SGC and PSA will grade the same card differently. I send cards in to both services.

A few years ago on this board, several of the anti PSA members were trying to convince me that I was doing a disservice to the hobby by having most of my inventory in PSA holders. My feeling then is the same as it is now. My customers will decide what holders my inventory will be in. For the most part, my E cards will go to SGC while my T206 and T205 cards will go to PSA. Topps and Bowman go to PSA. Regionals are split.

There are collectors that will not even look at a card if it is not in the holder that they want. I have in the past, and will in the future cross cards from one service to the other for some of my customers. I will not try and cross over cards that are not cost effective to do like a T206 vg common.

Last year, I purchased 1200 graded cards. I went through them to see if I thought that I could bet some bumped up. Over all, there were very few; about 10 GAI cards, 10 PSA cards and 0 SGC cards. I do not think that the SGC cards were over graded, just that they were accurate. There were some GAI cards that I thought were over graded. For all I know, the person that I bought this lot from had already stripped the undergraded cards out.

Both SGC and PSA are viable grading services. My customers will decide which I use the most. There are aspects of both services that I have problems with, but the posting boards have not been a productive place to discuss the different services. They are too polarized.

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Posted By: Neal K

the PSA 8 could be nicer than the 92 as well ... the SGC 92 is one of the most absurd grades out there. Certainly up there with a PSA 10/SGC 98 or 100, and GAI 11. Just my opinion.

I agree about collectors paying ridiculous prices for a half grade bump. I wonder if the Lionel Carter provenance had anything to do with the hammer prices as well.

I like SGC cards more and more. I find there holders to be knockout, and I have yet to question an SGC card that I own. Same thing for the PSA cards I own.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

SGC is a fine company. Dave has done an excellent job. They have grown to where they were a niche company to now they are a legit alternative to PSA for many types of cards.

Based on some anecdotal stories I think PSA has improved over the past 1-2 years.

Both companies need to be increasingly vigilant to the increasing skills of the card doctors. I have spoken to Dave several times on this and I know he believes he is on top of it. I plan to speak to Joe and his graders vabout it at the collectors conference in late January.

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Posted By: Jerry Hrechka

I'm somewhat confused - if both SGC & PSA are competent in grading cards, then why does the hobby need a "GRAND HIGH EXALTED MYSTIC RULER" to pass judgement on the cards they have already graded.
I'm Ed Norton to the Ralph Kramdens in card collecting.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jerry- do you remember the name of the Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler?

Morris Fink.