O/T Whats wrong with baseball today

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Posted By: Mike

Stairs just resigned with the Blue Jays for 2 years 1 mil a year plus a 1.25 signing bonus. Here is what Riccardi said in the paper about the deal.

"He definitely outperformed his contract," said Ricciardi, who added that Stairs could see close to the same amount of at-bats next season. "He had such a good year, we knew we weren't going to get Matt Stairs for $850,000 again, nor should we. We should reward the player when he does well, and he did well. It's nice to see and be able to reward the guy.


NO sorry that is the WRONG way to think about it. So he did great last year when you paid him 850k you guarantee him a 2 year deal and give him a raise so what if he takes a dump this year are you gonna take the deal back?? this is precisely why the contracts all need to be dumped and players get paid a base salary plus incentives for what they did THIS year!!!! I can almost guarantee we would see better baseball being played on a daily basis if these guys actually had to work to make an extra 100k.

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Posted By: cmoking

IMO, baseball today is better than it has ever been in history.
People are always complaining about the modern day players, teams, management. They all want to go back to the "good-old days". But they wanted to go back to the good-old days in Babe Ruth's times too. Cobb was complaining HRs aren't real baseball. Phooey to that. And Cobb got the same treatment too. When he was playing, people complained he wasn't a gentlemen like the players of their good-old days.

Go ahead guys, complain all you want. In 40 years, there will be another generation wishing baseball was like it is in the early 21st century. And 40 years after that, they'll wish it was in the mid-21st century.


God bless Matt Stairs.

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Posted By: Marc S.

Should base salaries be at the league minimum, and then players get compensated for every hit, home run, double play, etc? Performance-based contracts are made to align incentives between performance and pay, although not purely so, as that may cause a dis-alignment between long-term player health and payouts. I seem to recall it was just a few weeks ago that Brian Cashman, Steinbrenner and the NY Yankees were vilified for offering Joe Torre a performance-based contract that would pay him less if the Yankees lost, but more if they won the World Series. In fact, Torre called the offer insulting, despite the fact that the base cut still would have made him the highest-paid manager in baseball.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

You cant pay people based on performance because every guy who spends a game on the bench instead of starting is going to complain,you would be pitting players and agents vs players/managers/owners/gm's. Everytime a guy gets benched it would be a problem and MLB doesnt let them do it that way because they thought the scenario thru. Theres nothing wrong with Matt Stairs contract,if anything its a bargain.

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Posted By: Mike

I think there should be a set league salary and players get incentives based on hits RBI's etc etc and lose pay for other things. If they hit a certain level in a category they would get compensated even more. It would take quite some time to iron out all the details of course but it needs to be done. I wasn't complaining about Stairs getting that money or contract moreso what Riccardi said about him deserving that contract. What if he doesnt even hit 200 next year? Does he deserve a cut in pay? Players need to be paid based on how they perform THIS year not on how they performed 3 years ago. Big deal a guy hits 320 with 35 HR's and 100 RBI's in 2003 and gets a huge contract and his team doesnt make the World Series once over the life of the contract and the guy never gets to those numbers again is that fair to the team?
IMHO the entire system needs to be rethought in baseball from ROY voting to All Star voting gold gloves everything needs to be rethought most of the awards are a joke in baseball.

Of course Torre called it a slap in the face it is an insult in todays baseball world for him to get a performance based contract. Most ballplayers would say my idea is a slap in their faces as well heaven forbid they actually need to work and perform to get their money and the chances of the MLBPAA agreeing to such a deal are about as good as myself becoming a hall of famer but something needs to be done because at the pace we are going with contracts getting out of hand and prices getting jacked up to compensate for those contracts there won't be any fans left to go to the games cause none of us would be able to afford to go.

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Posted By: James Feagin

Baseball and all sports are entertainment. Does Tom Cruise get less money if one of his movies does'nt do well at the box office?

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Posted By: howard

Yes, at least in some cases. Tom Cruise, like many film stars, typically gets a percentage of the box office take.

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Posted By: bobbvc

I'm sorry, can't handle this anymore. Until Baseball fans start complaining about what the owners are making, please shut up about salaries. Thank you.

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Posted By: Alan

Will it bother anyone if I say that I don't follow baseball anymore. As Tom Cruise said in the movie Risky Business, "Sometimes you just gotta say, "--------------"

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Posted By: dennis

nothing is wrong with baseball, this is just the way things are in the 21st century. life is better now than in any time previous. why dwell on money issues?

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Posted By: Mike

why baseball fans are stupid.... November 4 2007, 8:29 PM


I'm sorry, can't handle this anymore. Until Baseball fans start complaining about what the owners are making, please shut up about salaries. Thank you.




Bob thats part of what needs to be altered. The owners need to open up their books nobody knows what the owners are making so how can we complain about it?

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Posted By: David Smith

You want to "fix" baseball? Here si what you do:

1) Make ALL ball players have their blood tested for illegal drugs and other performance enhancers. There needs to be a level playing field so that some players don't feel they have to cheat to succeed, that their natural ability and hard work ALONE will allow them to make the BIG show or not.

2) Have a set rule about how many times a team can be on ESPN and stick to it. Also have a MINIMUM number of times that a team has to be shown.

In the early days of ESPN baseball coverage, I would watch almost every game they telecast. That way, I cold see all the players and all the teams. Then, they shifted and started showing only a certain number of teams and my interest wained. Once they started broadcasting the Red Sox and Yankees almost exclusievely, I almost totally stopped watching. In the few games I did watch (NONE involving the Red Sox or Yankees) the announcers had to bring up the Red Sox or Yankees for some reason and ESPN had in game breaks and most of thsoe were about those two teams. This past Post Season, I mainly watched the NL games. I only watched parts of the World Series because I am SOOOO tired of hearing about the Red Sox.

3) Have a cap on what Amateur Draft picks can make. With the BIG dollar teams paying stupid amounds of money to Free Agents, thus driving up the price of even bad players and Salary Arbitration ALSO being affected by this, it makes it hard for small dollar teams to compete. Then, they are also at a disadvantage when Player A wants X amount of dollars to sign and if he doesn't get it, then he will not sign and go back into the pool for next year. This hurts the small dollar teams two ways. First, if they sign the player, it takes money away from other parts of the organization OR the organization has to raise ticket prices. Second, if they sign Player A and he is a bust, then they have spent money on a guy who was NO HELP to the Majro League team. So, if the Major LEague team was counting oin this guy to be on the BIG club in a few years and isn't, then they ahve another hole to fill. Finally, if the guy is Drafted and doesn't sign, then the team has lost out on a player who might have helped them.

By having a salary/bonus cap on Amateur Draft picks, if small money teams have a bad draft, they are NOT penalized financially for it. This would also induce some players to sign who otherwise might not because this way, no matter who Drafts them, they are going to get about the same amount of money from one year to the next and getting it this year and also getting experince is better tahn waiting another year.

4) If there is a salary/bonus cap on Minor League players then the Major Leagues would have to have a MINIMUM team payroll they would have to meet. A salary floor. This would keep the Owners from just pocketing the extra cash they make from Revenue Sharing and also make the Minor League players work harder to get to the Majors.

ALL of these things would make the game MORE fair to ALL teams and also increase fan interest because THEIR team might actually have a chance of winning every couiple of years instead of every couple of decades.

David

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Posted By: Glen V

When a 9 inning playoff game takes 4 hours, 19 minutes to play, something's wrong...

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Posted By: Paul S

For me, it's cost prohibitive to go to more than a few games a year.

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Posted By: Marc

MLB is dead to me. I've always enjoyed vintage pre-war baseball cards since I was a kid, although I never had the money to buy them. BUT, it wasn't until I grew up and got fed up with today's MLB, that I started collecting and buying prewar baseball cards. I guess it has become the ONLY way for me to experience the GAME as it is supposed to be. I hate every single aspect of today's game because of the money issues. You can't have a player have one good game without the first comment from the announcers, agents wondering "When is he a free agent?" or "Will the team be able to keep him?". I would just love to sit down and enjoy a baseball game without hearing threats or comments about the good players leaving for free agency. Honestly, I find more enjoyment out of watching little league baseball nowadays because it is a GAME.

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Posted By: peter chao

Marc,

Money issues have been part of baseball since the days that Babe Ruth earned more than the President. The only difference now days is that bench-warmers earn more than the President.

But for some inexplicable reason, baseball teams are making more money than they ever did. However, TV viewership of the World Series has dropped quite a bit. So MLB executives better stay on their toes.

Peter C.

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Posted By: dan mckee

NEEDS A SALARY CAP!

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Posted By: Brett

Theres way too many major leaguers using steroids. I guess they arent good enough to do it the legit way. Theres way too many teams and way too many crappy players filling those rosters... this makes it pretty easy for alot of records being broken. I wish there was a salary cap too. I can't justify paying a guy $15 million a year because he can hit 40 HRs but only hit .240 ! These guys wouldnt be in the majors if they couldn't hit the long ball. I'm also tired of seeing teams changing their uniforms every other year ! Stick with one damn logo and use it...

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Posted By: Ed Ivey

Need cheerleaders.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

As I mentioned in a lengthy post some time ago, a friend of me told me I was not a baseball fan. I was aghast!

He told me I was a fan of 19th and 20th century baseball. That this 21st century stuff with 26 million dollar a year salaries, and $7.50 beer... we weren't fans of that.

He's right. I wonder if that Miller High Life truck guy in the commercials has a cousin who could snatch some franchises from the knuckleheads who pay these huge salaries, then charge the fans the big bucks...

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Posted By: Marc

Well, there is something wrong whenever a guy like Andy Pettite turns down 16 million dollars. Yeah, Babe Ruth did make more than the president of the U.S.. And quite frankly, that may have been the beginning of end. You can also thank Curt Flood for free agency. Simple thing is, free agency could have been a great thing. Problem is, this free agency system has been abused. I have nothing against a man trying to better himself, BUT...whenever 250 million isn't enough for ARod and 16 million isn't enough for a pitcher past his prime (Andy Pettite) - something is terribly wrong. How many ordinary people actually make 1 million dollars in their entire lifetime? That should sum it all up. These guys are spoiled and if not for pro sports, alot of them would be flipping burgers for a living or be in jail. If I were a pro athlete, I would just be thankful someone wanted to pay me to play and fans wanted to pay to see me play.

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Posted By: Paul S

"These guys are spoiled and if not for pro sports, alot of them would be flipping burgers for a living or be in jail."

What? How do you know this? Why wouldn't they all be making a living just like the next person? Why would they be in jail?

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Posted By: Anonymous

"These guys are spoiled and if not for pro sports, alot of them would be flipping burgers for a living or be in jail."



Just Basketball players not all of pro sports. most other sports have a high percentage of college grads. Basketball seems to encourage players to not go to college and even drop out of high school.

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Posted By: David Smith

To all,

This opting out of contracts might just be an American thing or phenomena. What I mean is, how many players from the Dominican Republic or Venezuela or other countries, who grew up dirt poor, have opted out of large contracts?? This would be interesting to see.

I think most, if not all, people who grew up REALLY poor remember it, even though they might not like to think about it. This is probably a MAIN reason that drives them to succeed. It is also probably a main reason that they are grateful for what they have.

When I hear about players opting out of contracts that pay this much, I wonder how BAD they had it as a child?

Just thinking,

David

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

he is always around 280 ,can hit home runs and OBP is usually average ++. I think that using Stairs in this post is w/o research. A nice team guy to boot !

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Posted By: Mike

again not my point. I am happy for Stairs and have always been a fan of his since his days with Oakland.
My point is why should he be rewarded a 2 years guaranteed contract for what he did last year? He shouldnt, Players should sign contracts for a base salary and incentives based on what they do THIS year not get insane contracts based on what they did last year or even 2 or 3 years ago.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Only problems I see are

1)Steroids/illegal drugs and we need mandatorey comprehensive testing to protect the integrity of the game.

2)Get rid of the hated designated hitter rule.

3)Go back to 1 division in each league and make the pennett race mean what it did in the past.

I don't see why baseball players should not get multiyear contracts--other professions get them. And please no salary cap--this is America. And owners should try to make all the money they can.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Salary caps to keep the game competitive among the various franchises from different size markets.

Or, since this is America, let any community that wants to field a team do so... after all, this is America, why shouldn't Monkey's Eyebrow, Kentucky be allowed to field a major league team if they have the money to do so... I don't really believe that, but that would be the culmination of the "this is America" concept.


Realistically, I think we look at ways to restore the game to some point that we liked. We think of how the game should be "fixed" for the fans. Generally, neither the Players nor the Owners care much about the Fans... they do fancy the Fans' money, though. So those first two groups only want "fixes" that are good for them. The don't care if a beer is $7.50, they aren't in the stands paying $7.50 a beer.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Owners should charge what the market will bear--they run a business to make money. Charge $50 per beer if they want to. I think vast majority of fans think game is fine as is. Good for the players who can make a lot of money being some of the best players in the world. Good for entertainers who can do it. Does Arod make as much as Madonna? Or Tiger Woods?

Where did Cleveland and Colorado rank in player salaries?

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Posted By: Marc

Paul, just look around at professional sports in general and tell me most of these guys wouldn't be in jail - if not for sports? Ray Lewis, Pac Man Jones, Chris Henry, Dave Parker, Orlando Cepeda, Kobe Bryant, OJ Simpson, etc...Honestly, if I could sit down and research this, it would be astonishing. Every single day, I see some player connected to drugs, murder, rape, etc. Yeah, they go through the court system. But, honestly, if not for their career in sports and reputation, they would actually be convicted or at least convicted to a higher degree. Most just get a slap on the wrist. And the reference to 'flipping burgers' for a living. I will always remember Dexter Manley admitting he could not read or write, yet he somehow had a bachelor's degree from Oklahoma State. Go figure..

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

yes he should be rewarded for be able to play ist base, outfield, dh, pinch hit AND that this 2 yr salary is way way under the average salary.

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Posted By: Marc S.

The Colorado Rockies spent approximately $58.1MM, seventh lowest in MLB (but made it to the World Series)

The Cleveland Indians spent approximately $61.7MM, eighth lowest in MLB.

Discussions about revenue sharing, salary caps, etc. go nowhere in my mind. Too many lower-salaried teams in MLB consistently make it to the playoffs (as evidenced by this year and almost every year since Wild Card came into play). Additionally, no one has made a compelling argument to me that revenue sharing works in other leagues -- one only needs to look at the Patriots in the NFL to have a solid, coherent argument against the purported "success" of such revenue sharing and salary caps.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Thanks Marc--compelling arguments.

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Posted By: Paul S

Marc, Well, some of the players you mentioned just might be in jail for some of their actions, but I don't know if "most" players would, especially if the percentage(s) of players were compared to the general population at large. Obviously a large part does have to do with access to money, or not, in and out of sports, (and what it can do for a person in the legal system.)
Not to get all sociological here, but if the subject is/was baseball -- and if there is an inordinately larger percentage of minorities (especially African-American) in the prison system than that same percentage in the non-prison general population -- then I doubt that would be true since the number of black players in major league baseball is very low in comparison. A baseball player that I do think might be in jail if not for sports is John Rocker. I can see him being the kind of ignorant guy who'd kill a person in a drunken bar fight and be put away for manslaughter. Of course that's just my speculation.
In football, Ray Lewis might be in jail for his specific actions if not for basketball, but maybe not as a middle class white person for those same actions. In basketball, I'd say the same for Kobe, although personally I think all he did was cheat on his wife. Without basketball, he might have been put away, but as a white person and not a basketball player he might not have been put in prison.
Anyway, I understand your point (and not in the mood to play the ACLU.) This is not to say that a certain amount of players would not or should not be in jail/prison (half the Trailblazers old team), I just don't think "most" players would, not even close. I'll let the education/income topic alone -- my head hurts too much from this. Regards.

*edited for clarity, if that's possible.

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Posted By: Alan

I won't speak for Leon, but let's get back to talking cards....

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Posted By: Paul S

Sounds good to me -- my heachache is going away already!

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Posted By: Bob B.

Leon prefers this board not get too political which is really where this topic would go if allowed to follow its logical conclusion. A couple points...

1.MLB does not own the sport of Baseball. They should be mindful of their caretakers role.

2. I agree with Bill James (and others) the game would probably be IMPROVED if MLB lost their anti-trust exemption, especially in small towns.

3. Don't want to pay "those prices" (tickets,beer,food,etc.) who does? Your local high school, amateur, college, youth, etc. team NEED your support. You'd be surprised how fun it is to get involved where your support REALLY matters.

4. Get involved with the game yourself (player, coach, fundraiser). It's better to light one candle than to curse the darkness...

Thanks.

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Posted By: Brett

There has to be a stiff penalty for steroid users who were caught. Whats the penalty, like 50 games ? it should be atleast a 1 year ban.