How bout that ebay!!!!! Sit down to read this one.

[danmckee]

Some of you may know me, I have been around for awhile. On ebay since 1998. I buy and sell like most of you.

I purchased 2 T3's from a guy after asking him what size they were. Most of the fakes are those small Topps card size ones. He responded with the proper size of about 5" by 8". The scans weren't great but looked real with writing on the back of one. Cards come and they are photo copies of the originals.

I contact the scumbag and of course, no response. I open 2 cases and leave negative feedback because this is not an honest mistake in my opinion.

The prior week I won a 1959 Baltimore Colts mirror fob for myself from another seller. A fairly rare item as I have never seen one before, I pay immediately. He then lists another identical so I ask him how many he has and I ? the authenticity since it was listed as 1959 Colts mirror. Seller states it is what it is and how he just sells for fun yadda yadda yadda. So I tell him I will return it if it is fake. He immediately refunds me so I left him a negative.

Here we go....

I have 2 cases pending and never received the fake Colts item thank goodness.

I get a warning message from ebay about me violating communication policy.

Then they remove every negative and neutral feedback I left anyone for an entire year!!!

WOW! I didn't even know they could do that!!

What possible reason would they have to remove a year's worth of feedback and to clear the fb of the 2 sellers portraying recently made junk as real?

I call and behold.. I am told that I have left too many low star ratings of 1s and 2s and that they feel I am ambushing my competition in the same hobby which I too sell.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????????????????????????

Man, someone had to get creative for that!! Or more like have a relative or friend working there who can pull strings. How can they assume I am trying to squash all of you sellers so that people only buy my stuff?

So now my account is under extreme scrutiny and the 2 sellers who passed on obvious fakes as real are free to try to steal from someone else.

I challenge any of you to top this ebay disaster!

[GrayGhost]

Ebay is ridiculous. I am a VERY rare/small time seller on there these days. Between the fees and RIDICULOUS stuff like this, I can see others being upset too.

Their feedback system of not being able to leave a negative to a buyer is RIDICULOUS. And , in your case, an OBVIOUS mess, especially w the T-3s, and they side w the seller to kiss their butts.

How about DOING THINGS RIGHT. Is it that hard to ask?

[danmckee]

I agree, buyer feedback is a complete joke. I have buyers write and tell me they have 100% feedback can I do this and that? Well all buyers only have 100% feedback. Buyers that do not pay should get negative feedback or neutral depending on each situation.

Ebay actually sided with me on the T3's and I am do to get my money back tomorrow after delivery back which ebay forced and I actually agree with that. I should have to return the item to receive a refund.

But obviously 1 of these 2 sellers knew what buttons to push or had an inside track. I am guessing the inside track as ebay doesn't have time to look so thoroughly into a customers account each time.

I really do not care about them removing all of my feedback as much as i care that was the only way I had of warning future bidders of the fake items.

[JustinD]

Just to play devils advocate, just how many negatives or neutrals did they remove?

These do sound like egregious issues with false product which may have definitely deserved negatives. I myself have over 1900 feedbacks on my current account, which only a few hundred are seller ratings and I have left about 2500 according to ebay. I really may have left only 2 or 3 negatives and perhaps a couple neutrals in that entire time. I have been burned mind you, but almost never on something I didn't feel I was taking a risk on anyways. I save the negs for people that A. never send the product or B. lie outright on the description and refuse a return or refund. If I get my refund, I usually just leave no feedback at all and call it a wash. If I get banged on a reprint or something I knew I was being risky with from the start, usually I work it out or rack it up to my own gamble for a bargain. It sounds like you may have pretty tight standards if you have a pile of negs and one or two stars. While it may be entirely circumstantial, you can see where they have some basis for argument if you are a seller yourself.

[danmckee]

devil's advocate is good to do but to be quite honest, I can't answer you since they are all gone now.

I can pull up all of my 2010 back and the neat thing is, most of the ones that received bad feedback from me either are no longer registered or have a bad rating so I wasn't their only issue.

I would love to know how many and actually the percentage to the good feedback and 5 stars which I leave most of the time.

I am going to wait a few days to call nback and see if they will provide me with those numbers but I doubt it. They never arm you with info that you can fight with.

I would like to see the numbers because maybe my percentages are too high? Maybe I have had a recent run of bad luck this year buying?

But to hack away all of the feedback I left w/o even a blink of an eye? REEKS of something fishy to me.


Here is what I can show you:
Mainly buying
7,338 Feedback left

I have left from 1998 to Oct 2010:
54 Negatives
25 Neutral

Not sure what those percentages work out to be or if they are considered high or not.

30 of these members are no longer registered!

[JustinD]

I understand the frustration, I was just offering a different view. I myself have been entirely turned off as a seller by having no recourse with buyers. It makes me sell only on rare occasions. While I may not have hammered people with negs, It keeps the average morons honest when you have recourse. There is just no way now to defend yourself from nonpaying bidders or those who claim they never received items or worse take them and swap junk in the return.

[danmckee]

Yea I agree Justin. They made it tough for us sellers. Though it looks like they may be trying to change that as I was hammered as a buyer this time and the dirty sellers have clean records and are able to continue to try and steal.

[Fred]

I mostly buy items on ebay, I haven't sold anything in a while. My feedback rating hasn't changed much for a while because as a buyer I refuse to leave feedback first because I feel as a buyer I met my obligation when I paid for the item (usually within 48 hours) If the seller leaves me a positive feedback then I reciprocate if the item is as described.

Dan, I'm blown away, but not surprised, by ebay's actions. I figure the feedback system is supposed expose the "bad" sellers but at the same time those greedy bastards want to collect as much in fees as possible. My guess is that they only "removed" the negs and neutral feedbacks you left but didn't prohibit you from buying and selling (so they can collect their fees).

[danmckee]

Oh I am still open for business but was frimly told by the dude in the account division who has been there forever and changes his name each time you call, that I am close to being booted as a buyer and a seller!

Basically, they have taken away my right to leave honest feedback.

I am now just writing "Thanks" and no stars whatsoever.

So if you sell me something and want to crap on me, have at it as my hands are tied.

I completely agree with what you said, as a seller, I always leave my buyers feedback as soon as they pay and I usually try to state the date I am shipping in the feedback.

After payment is received, the buyer has fullfilled his/her obligation and should receive feedback first from the seller.

[glchen]

That's crazy, Dan. Can you out those two ebay sellers that you negged here?

[drc]

I agree that some of eBay's feeback and related policies are dubious to nonsensical. I try not to think about it.

[danmckee]

I gladly will if I am permitted to do that here?

heck I am so gun shy now, I can't have Leon suspending me

Then I won't have any of you to cry to any more

[danmckee]

Heck it is easy enough to figure out if you pull up the items I won as I mentioned which ones were the fakes.

januaryman56 - colts pocket mirror

mlw69mike - T3's

Both sellers from the midwest

[baseball tourist]

Sorry you are going through this Dan...

I too have been selling on EBay since 1998 and now only list approx 10 items a month. Even with that low amount of auction items I have to deal with one or two buyer issues each month. It's ridiculous to me how buyers can get away with their actions...for example:

A buyer recently bid on my lot of 4 1930's hockey snapshots, paid the $140 winning bid one week after the 7 day payment stipulation in my
listing and only after I had politely pointed this out to him. My gut told me that this guy could be trouble so I paid an extra $5 out of pocket to have the photos shipped registered mail.

The package was returned to me two weeks later marked "no longer at address" (his EBay and PayPal stipulated address). I immediately brought this too his attn and he claims that he just moved and forgot to tell me or change his address with either entity. I asked him for postage payment again (but kindly offered to again pay the difference for registered mail) and he agreed but waited 2 weeks to pay for the second round of postage. Then he waited another week to provide me with his new (unconfirmed address).

All communication was handled through EBay so I felt like even though I was being set up for a fraudulent claim, I may be his first victim as he didn't realize his communications were trackable.

Seems my gut feeling is to be trusted as now he contacts me out of the blue, two weeks after the second package was signed for to complain that one of the photos of an obscure, 1930's minor Canadian hockey team was "a reprint" is his estimation (not true). looks like I will have a case to fight.

I just can't believe the percentage of fraudsters that are out there and I cringe at the thought of the hassles sellers with 100's of items up at any given time must have to deal with.

Chris

[Leon]

Originally Posted by danmckee

I gladly will if I am permitted to do that here?

heck I am so gun shy now, I can't have Leon suspending me

Then I won't have any of you to cry to any more

C'mon Dan'o. When have I ever asked ANYONE not to say something as long as their name is by their post? I think this is one of the most open forums on the internet, however names have to be by posts when making certain comments.

[danmckee]

That stinks Chris!! My condolences on your nightmare. Hopefully Fraudbay will force him to return the item to you as they forced me to return the photo copied T3's.

So much for a safe trading environment and yes! Go with your gut feeling 100% of the time!!

[scmavl]

After selling here and there on ebay (100% feedback, maybe 50 sales in the past couple of years, all cards) and buying quite a bit (500 items?), I get an email from ebay. I haven't sold anything in a few months but out of the blue, ebay informs me that I can now only sell up to $500 per month. No reason, just that it's my max sales allowable per month. No negs, complaints, open cases, nothing...

While I've only had that account for a couple of years, I have been buying & selling on my other acct since '99. Ebay has become a joke for sellers now.

[danmckee]

I know Leon, I was making a funny

[brianp-beme]

Because of situations like these I swear to Bob Almighty (whoever that might be) that I will start putting up auction lots on GRAND SLAM BIDS in about a week. We have an alternative people...let's start turning our focus to it!

Brian

[T206Collector]

I've been buying and selling on ebay for nearly a decade, with over 700 positive feedback (t-206collector). I have left exactly ZERO negative feedbacks in my life. I have received exactly ZERO negative feedbacks in my life. Do you think that means that I've had no ebay issues over 10 years? Of course not. I just happen to think it is nobody's responsibility to identify the pond scum floating on ebay. Doing so with publicly viewable feedbacks can only come back to bite you. And, it will do no good in ridding the world of pond scum.

[bobbyw8469]

C'mon Dan'o. When have I ever asked ANYONE not to say something as long as their name is by their post? I think this is one of the most open forums on the internet, however names have to be by posts when making certain comments.

I will gladly post my name, because I don't want to have to watch what I say!

[danmckee]

I can appreciate your position T206collector but I have never been the one to turn their back and let someone else get involved when I see a problem. I work very hard to report fraud in the baseball card category when I see it and I would have hoped ebay cares more about illegal fraud then stupid star ratings but I guess I am wrong.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by danmckee

I can appreciate your position T206collector but I have never been the one to turn their back and let someone else get involved when I see a problem. I work very hard to report fraud in the baseball card category when I see it and I would have hoped ebay cares more about illegal fraud then stupid star ratings but I guess I am wrong.

Ebay gets a commission on every sale. Ergo, they will support every sale that is legally defensible. Negative feedbacks on sellers who get to the line but are not technically legally over the line hurt Ebay's bottom line. When you start moving away from that line into pure honest sales, it is very hard for a mega-corporation to take a moral stance one way or the other. It is hard to draw a line in the sand on the scum-o-meter, when there is a hard line of legality a little further down the shore.

[brianp-beme]

Grand Slam! Grand Slam! Grand Slam!

Brian (the instigator)

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by scmavl

After selling here and there on ebay (100% feedback, maybe 50 sales in the past couple of years, all cards) and buying quite a bit (500 items?), I get an email from ebay. I haven't sold anything in a few months but out of the blue, ebay informs me that I can now only sell up to $500 per month. No reason, just that it's my max sales allowable per month. No negs, complaints, open cases, nothing...

While I've only had that account for a couple of years, I have been buying & selling on my other acct since '99. Ebay has become a joke for sellers now.

Ebay did this to me in June...I tried in vain for two months to get them to lift the restrictions on me..Finally after getting nowhere I called and asked for a manager..I talked to a woman who told me that every single seller will have restrictions by the end of the year. She did double my limits though and told me that if I needed to up them that I should have no problem doing so.

[YankeeCollector]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I've been buying and selling on ebay for nearly a decade, with over 700 positive feedback (t-206collector). I have left exactly ZERO negative feedbacks in my life. I have received exactly ZERO negative feedbacks in my life. Do you think that means that I've had no ebay issues over 10 years? Of course not. I just happen to think it is nobody's responsibility to identify the pond scum floating on ebay. Doing so with publicly viewable feedbacks can only come back to bite you. And, it will do no good in ridding the world of pond scum.

+1

[danmckee]

Well I am a registered expert in the baseball card category and even though they have SHIT ON ME this time I am going to continue to do my job and shut down the trash that tries to steal!!! That is the entire purpose why I spend countless hours working for free for them and the main reason I am pissed they allowed the trash to have my FB removed.


Bill Cornell once told me that he firmly believes in the feedback system and I will still give my all to help clean up the baseball card category.

Bill, you are my hero!!!

Dan

[Aric]

Do you ever leave positive feedback but low-star ratings? If so, ebay frowns upons this and considers it bad feedback behavior. A seller can have a low-dsr score removed if the buyer leaves a corresponding positive feedback. Perhaps one of your recent bad sellers called in to complain about the negative, ebay saw the pattern of low-dsr's and nuked them all.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by danmckee

I am going to continue to do my job and shut down the trash that tries to steal!

Sisyphus will get to the top of his hill first.

It's an internet market place that is driven by the individual buyers and sellers around the world, and is dependent upon their freedom of action. Pure capitalism and anarchy meet each other at opposite ends of the spectrum on ebay.

You've got a dog that is ebay; you've got a huge flea problem -- but in this case, the dog is in a state of symbiosis with the fleas. If you kill enough fleas, the dog starts to get sick.

The only reason eBay even bothers to "register experts" is to appease them; not because they actually are better off if the experts do something about the market-generated problems.

In other words, the problems of ebay are inherent in any serialized market-place. The alternative is single auction houses with individual consignors and buyers, where everything has to be managed centrally. Of course there the costs are higher and you reach a smaller, if not more specialized, audience.

If you want to play on ebay -- and you want ebay to be ebay -- there will always be people trying to take advantage of the purity and simplicity of the system. To put it upon yourself to regulate a purposefully unregulated marketplace -- a marketplace that is actually designed to be unregulated -- is a monster headache that you should not keep giving yourself. Just about everything else imaginable is a better use of your time.

[xdrx]

Well put T206.

It seems a more useful approach would be to accumulate names of problematic ebay sellers and buyers here. I think maybe that sort of thread already exists?

[Exhibitman]

Dan, you ought to get a purple heart for the nonsense you have to deal with on fleabay.

When I saw that feedback was a waste of time I decided not to waste my time leaving it. I do not leave feedback for anyone any more; haven't for years. If I get the occasional PO'd troll demanding feedback I simply ignore them until they go away. When I have a problem as a buyer I let my charge-back speak for me.

I cannot believe that ebay is seriously considering capping a persons sales activity. Talk about stupid.

FWIW, with the ever closer convergence of ebay fees and auction house fees, and with the ever-increasing potential for getting hosed as a seller, I have all but quit selling through Ebay.

[drc]

My opinion is it's not not a vote if you can vote for only one candidate, and it's not feedback if you can only say Yes.

The seller doesn't doesn't get to leave feedback.

"Let's set up a feedback system for customers, and the lowest you can get is 100% and the highest you can get is 100%" And the point of this system is ... ??

I can understand a store or auction house having a rule you can't bad mouth the customers. Fine. But this feedback system is a charade.

[rjackson44]

what a joke ebay is .there help is awfull,there fees crazy ,,,what a monopoly of idiots,,,feel bad for you,,,

[jbbama]

Been there done that.......................Fleebay and Feebay both SUCK! When they did away with buyer feedback, the game was over.