How do you handle a low ball offer?

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

I know we have all had some really low offers before on our beloved cards. Say you have a high grade Old Judge HOF card and someone offers you 2 or 3 common cards in very low grade for it. How do you respond?

Let me first say that I'm not the easiest person to trade with. But on the other hand, I have never tried to steal/take advantage of another board member. I figure if anyone has a login name on this board they should have some what of a clue.

I do not wnat to say how I handled it right now, as that might sway opinions...

I want to hear how YOU would handle it.

(Another example might be a PSA 6 T3 Cy Young and you are offered a couple of common T3 players PSA 1)

JC

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Posted By: Zinn

The proper way to handle it is with a polite "no thank you".

Next step is to write down his name/handle and never, never, never respond to any emails. In fact if you can block him, do so.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim, I don't sell many cards but I presume that the equally annoying obverse is when I see a card on BST which recently sold either on ebay or another auction for half the price. With such vehicles as VCP, my eyes, etc. I am capable of determining pretty quickly what the subject card is worth and being BSed can be tiresome.

I suppose in your case I'd simply say no. What offends me is when the would-be buyer keeps on barely upping the lowball offer as if upping it by a few dollars each time -- still well below what the card is worth -- will somehow trigger my brain into a selling frenzy despite the obvious reality that the card is worth more.

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Posted By: Joann

I think it would depend on the person. If it was someone I knew from here I'd probably say no thanks, I was certain I would get more from another buyer. If he then invited a counteroffer I would respond that, based on his offer, we were probably too far apart to even attempt to negotiate and thank him again for his interest. That might convey where I thought the offer was.

If it was someone I didn't know I would consider completely ignoring it, as insulting offers from people I don't know aren't worth my time.

I really would rather foster good relations here, even if the offer is insulting, and maybe give someone the benefit of the doubt for not knowing. But I'd be dying to give it all the attention it deserved by completely ignoring it, or sending a sarcastic response. On the right day, I might do exactly that.

J

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

I would simply say "No thank You" as well. It's not worth arguing about or even discussing.
Say it and be done with it.

Tony

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Posted By: Brian

Someone on this board once wanted to trade for my PSA 5 Boston Store Buck Weaver and offered only 3 poor/fair Obak 150s in return. I responded "no thank you."

That same person later made an offer for my 1946-47 Felices (Caramelo Deportivo)set at about 20% of the listed sale price. I responded "no thank you."

This same person has a website with alot of these cards, and better ones. This person is well aware of what my cards were worth and what he offered in return were worth. And it didn't stop him from making silly, time wasting, lowball offers.

I am sorry this happened to you JC.

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Posted By: Rich H.

If you are referring to someone who recently offered a trade of 2 Old Judge beaters for a higher grade (and value) card, I, too, received this insane offer. While I think it is better to not get emotional about money, it is always hard to not be insulted when someone, who you would expect would have a clue, gives you an offer that is so obscenely low.

I don't think "thanks" are in order - I simply say "NO." The courtesy I extend is the fact that I am providing a response.

Rich

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

as most everyone else with maybe telling the person if their bid or trade bait is really low that you may have received much better offers already. Thanks for the offer. I don't know what else you would hope to accomplish by saying anything else.....

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Posted By: MVSNYC

this discussion always pisses me off...everyone who "gets insulted" by low offers, needs to get the stick out of their ass! seriously, give me a break...as if you people printed the card yourself and it's your artwork, that someone is insulting you with a low offer, pleeeease. i never low ball anyone, but i am a smart & tuff negotiator. my philosophy, which learned from shopping in flea markets with my dad, is why not throw a "tuff" offer out there, and see what happens...more times than not, you'll be surprised that someone will bite (or at least, you will meet in the middle, and both sides are happy). AND the worst they can say is "no, thank you"...or "nah, i'd rather not".

no need to get insulted people...

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I don't think I've ever received what I would call an insulting offer from anyone that posts here regularly. I have received offers from people on the BST that I don't know and have never seen post. I am always cordial in my response and just say the customary "no thanks" or something like "I am looking for way more than that, thanks". I've used the Best Offer feature on ebay twice and I will never use it again because lowball offers are the only thing you will get by using that feature. I just flat out ignored one fellow and he sent me an angry email after 3-4 days asking me if I was going to consider his offer or not...that time I did shoot back something sarcastic, but that particular ebayer has emailed me twice before about auctions asking me to end them them with a BIN and when I told him no he didn't bid anyway.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...Thank you for the offer, but the value of my card is at least $X and your two cards A and B when added together only nets, at most, $X-Y. But thanks anyway.

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Posted By: leon

I usually just counter offer with what I will sell it for....though I don't really sell too much privately I do seem to buy some cards that way...

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Posted By: Joe D.

If you are selling something from your collection...
Since I love everything you have -
you could always tell a low-baller, "Joe D. would pay me much more for this."
(seriously - check with me first or last or during)


Its funny - I don't mind low ball offers so much, especially when I know who the person is - and I just respectfully pass on the offer and thank the person for their interest.

I do not like (and have had this many times)

-- When I list an asking price and a person asks me what the 'lowest' I would accept is.

-- Or when a person emails about a card posted but tries to seem disinterested. "I might be interested in...." Might? didn't you email me?

just a couple of minor pet peeves... but its all good.


I don't believe we ever traded - - so I can't say I understand what you mean when you say you are not the easiest to trade with.... but we almost had a sales transaction and throughout the correspondence you were a gentleman.

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

Jeff, funny you said that! I actually e-mailed him a couple of times to see if he was for real. Turns out he is registered on PSA. Plus I asked him if he knew Harry Wright was a HOFer and he then offered a LOW grade (common) HOFer in the deal and backed out a common. He kept e-mailing me and then I asked him if he thought it was a fair trade (to see his come back). He was selling me on how it was fair for both of us.

Joann, I did not know him from here and it was "one" of those days.

Rich, I think you hit the nail right on the head! The problem is I figured out he knew what he was doing so that upset me a little. I get the same feeling when I see Mr. Mint work the old timers at the front door.

Mike,

Low offers are fine. The problem is I did not go out an advertise my stuff. I just wanted to maybe buy a card. He later found out about my site. When at the flea market you would expect to make a "steal" but when dealing on a card forum where there are regulars and login names you would not expect such a lowball "trade".

Actually I should have just said No Thank You the first time but my curiosity just killed me on this guy. I had to see if he was for reel? I was not offended one bit.. Amused a little. I have been out of cards for a little bit and had to make sure the market did not crash like back in the 30's...

JC



Ok, do I hear 4 commons psa 2 or lower? Going once!

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Posted By: Silver King

I can see both sides. I like T206's cordial offer that explains the values. Regardless of whether or not the person making the low offer they will understand more of what is expected. I don't really know the difference in card prices yet myself and if I were to offer something in trade, I wouldn't mean to be insulting but others might take it that way. I guess it depends on who made the offer. On the other hand, I sell a lot of NFL tickets on eBay and I just started using the Best Offer. I blasted a few lowball offers that were ridiculous. I have 4 tickets that are two rows from the field and I was getting ridiculous offers that wouldn't get you 2 nosebleed seats. I responded with a cordial slam. "Get real, these seats go for five times your offer". Granted most of my tickets are 49er tickets which are now plummeting like housing prices so I guess it's all in who is making the offer when deciding how to respond.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Ridiculously low ball offers make the person come across as either ignorant, willing to cheat you or pulling your leg.

I'd say, "No thanks," and, if he is not a newbie or just joking around, I'd be wary of doing business with him from then on. But he'd just hear "No thanks" from me.

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Posted By: Misunderestimated

If I think the person is merely ignorant and really wants the card I might take the time to explain why the offer is way off base.

If I believe that they are intentionally trying to "cheat me" or annoy me I would be very very curt-- "No thanks."

I wouldn't be insulted in either case -- I think irritated or annoyed better captures my feelings or even surprised if the offeror was someone I had thought better of.

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Posted By: Richard

I have made a lowball offer before to someone who previously made me a rediculous offer on another item, just to make a point.

The funny thing is when the person is too dense to even get it.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

I'd be horribly offended. Then I'd go back to watching the Sox on their inexorable climb to the WS title. Or not.

Let me first say that I'm not the easiest person to trade with.

JC - that kind of self-awareness is why I like you.



Bill

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I remember when as the seller I quoted the price on a bunch of Dodgers photos. The guy asked if he could get a discount on the lot, probably as it was a group lot. I recalculated the price-per-photo and said, "No, the price is good." He said okay, and paid the price.

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Posted By: Fred C

JC,

What players were offered in trade for the Wright? By the way, that is a sweet Wright card.

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Posted By: Brian

JC,

I have been told by more than a couple board members that I am not alone in being lowballed by the board member metioned in my previous post. Apparently he has a history of such behavior. Can you believe he has even complained about the same flea market tactics he employs?

I am glad you state in public your opposition to such behavior. I share your goal that all board members take a higher road going forward. I am glad we can agree on that simple and fair point.

JC, let's work together to end flea market offers on 54 forever!

Brian

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Posted By: Scott T

...a lot of hurt feelings could be avoided if the seller would put an estimate of what he is looking to get out of the card.

It has been my experience on this website that if the original offer is within 75% or so what what the seller wants (even if the price is unlisted), you will get a polite "Thank you, but no" or have the offer accepted.

More and more, I am finding the B/S/T section more useful than Ebay.



Scott

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

with dealers at shows too. I NEVER make lowball offers but like to get a card for as little as possible. Generally, when buying a quantity of stuff, I ask if there could be a discount. Some dealers look REALLY offended at the whole prospect but I don't see how you can be on that side of the table and not deal a little bit---hence the name "DEALER". I know it's not "SUCKER" but I think 10-20% off on a large deal is not unheard of. If someone has too much into a card or cards and can't do that, a simple 'No Thanks' as mentioned above or 'I can't do that' works fine instead of getting offended. Quick way to turn off a potential sale or future sales........

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Posted By: Steve Murray

As for the between the lines comments here I concur completely.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Just politely respond no, or if you think the person is someone you can deal with, counteroffer and explain your reasoning. Why would anyone get "insulted" over something so unimportant?

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Posted By: boxingcardman

I mostly get a good laugh out of it. After all, you have to admire someone with the balls of a burglar ... just not deal with them.

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Posted By: Jay

A trade offer, no matter how off market you think it to be, is a free option. It gives you the right, but not the obligation, to make a particular trade. If you chose not to make the trade just say no in a polite fashion. Otherwise, consider countering the offer. Too many people take these things far too personally.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

what have you bumped your head ?
are your throwing in your house with that ?
you need a wedgie !
is this your first year in collecting ?
you know I can have you whacked !

so you see, my approach is a little more subtle then most.

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Posted By: Darren

No benefit to taking it personal even if it's meant that way.

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Posted By: Joe D.

I like the wedgie one.

although I would never say it, how about.....

"Is a cigarette included with your offer?...
because, I usually smoke a cigarette after I get $%#(@ed."

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

love that....really funny.

The wedgie one would be a full frontal. To give one you have to JUMP and RIP at the sametime.

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Posted By: David Goff

Would a "Atomic wedgie" by Mr. Heyman be accecptable?

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Posted By: barrysloate

While you can always decline a lowball offer politely, I have to admit I was never big on haggling. I know it is done all the time but it is a little bit too flea market for me. That is why I like the auction format- the price is set and the winning bidder knows exactly what the lot will cost. I guess it's just my personality, but that seems to work better.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

I hope that comes with a reach-around...

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

and yes

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Posted By: BcD

and the Phillies?



BcD

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Posted By: Ricky Y

This is just me..call me naive or too nice..but I like to give people a benefit of doubt. Its true if you join this board you should have some basic understanding of different types of cards and their approximate value..but there are always newbies..we all start out as one. I was on a message board for old hotwheel cars (which I also collect) and a new collector who had just started offered a trade that was obviously not of equal value..he immediately got jumped on by some folks..and it made him feel bad and embarrassed because it was not his intent to rip someone off. I would politely decline and help them explain the difference in values and offer tips on gaining some understanding on what they have. I will also tell that person to get other people's opinions as well so as not to have to solely rely on one person to offer advice.

Ricky Y

PS: I'd add that I would be cordial even if that person was a veteran collector...he/she might not be an expert on every card. I like Peter's thoughts..there are other matters that are more important..taking the high road is a noble thing.

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Posted By: Cobby33

Whenever you put something out there, soliciting offers, you have to be open to all kinds of offers. Of course, everyone wants a good deal.

What I hate is people who put cards on eBay with a "Best Offer" (with no auto-decline)- who send you a ****ty response saying, "I'd rather burn the card," or something stupid like that. If you're that hell-bent on getting your price for it, don't use "Best Offer," or use auto-decline under your threshold.

One time, a Board member sent me a snide response and then blocked me from all of his other auctions, after I made a reasonable offer. I can see blocking if a bidder continually makes ridiculous offers ($1.00), but not for any conceivably-reasonable offer. Now, I will never bid on any of his crap ever again.

Doing a lot of selling, I get frustrated with lowball offers, but as I said, you open yourself up to that when you put something out there without a firm price.

As others have said, a polite (tongue-in-cheek, if you must) "thanks but no thanks" is sufficient.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I remember when someone asked for my lowest sell price. Perhaps I was naive about this thing called negotiation, as I gave him the lowest price I'd sell it for. He said, "Can you go any lower?"

Then, another time, at the beginning of negotiation of a somewhat expensive item, the potential buyer said, "Have you ever read Donald Trump's 'Art of a Deal?' That's my favorite book." "Uh oh," I thought.

I believe the greatest power a seller has is in the ability to not sell something. If the buyer acts as if he's got you over a barrel or if you don't like the offers, you can chose to not sell the item. If you have to sell and the potential buyer knows this, you can be in trouble. For me, I have no problem selling things and people making a counter offer and I prefer the things to sell for prices fair for the buyer, but there's nothing I own that that I'm required to sell. If a potential buyer is rude or what I feel is unethical or cites passages from Donald Trump, there's no requirement that I sell him anything.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

guys- maybe it's just me, but there are far more important things in this world to worry about then "how to handle a low ball offer"...seriously. no need to get pist, or insulted...if someone throws out an offer that's too low (and you do NOT want to negotiate), then just say, "no thanks", or "sorry, can't do it"...

i've made plenty of deals with some of the biggest collectors in the hobby (Don L., Don S., Scott I., Michael Wachs, etc.)...they all are tuff negotiators, like myself. it's a push and pull thing, you throw out a number, and if they moan, or you moan, then you increase the offer, etc, eventually you meet somewhere in the middle...until both sides are happy...

IF a deal cannot be struck, then you simply both acknowledge that, and move on as gentlemen (or ladies)...

i should hold negotiating seminars at the learning annex, because i am great at it!

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Posted By: Joann

Several above are probably right - insulting is not the exact right word.

Maybe irritated and aggravated is more like it. Or insulted. I don't know.

The things that bug me are that the person offerring doesn't think my time is worth any basic courtesy - I don't like that I have to open/read/respond to a bs offer.

Is it a BIG deal? A WHOLE lot of time? No. But it's an irritating disruption, as would be a salesperson that knocks on your door, offers to sell you a regular 20 oz bottle of Pepsi for $35, and moves on when you say no.

It is also maybe a little offensive if I think they are trying to get over? Get a steal? Or suggest I don't know the value - that I'm stupid? I think that is borderline insulting if it's from someone I have reason to believe knows better.

I think it's worse on ebay b/c the inclusion of a BIN price along with a Best Offer should at least indicate ballpark - even though some are way overpriced. I guess when I put somethning with a $120 BIN and get "Best Offers" of $35, it's irritating and hard to imagine it was some naive little buyer that simply didn't know.

J

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Posted By: Cobby33

Joann-
Maybe your $120 BIN card was only worth $35
Part of the problem with BIN (although I set them a bit higher than what I think it is worth)- is that most sellers put it ridiculously-high, so maybe that 25% offer is more in line with the true value...

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Posted By: Kyle

Say no and move on. Some people out there still go by "book" value. I've had people tell me I'm asking 2-3 times book on items, and they think I'm crazy... especially when they've been selling for 2-3 times book for the past year!

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Posted By: Rob

i don't mind getting lowball offers via email. I'll just reply with the usual "thanks for your offer, but i'll pass" or something to that effect.

You never know, they might come back in the future with a reasonable offer, or I may realize I grossly over-priced my item and may want to deal with that person again.

The good thing about email as opposed to a salesman knocking on my door is that I can reply to the email at my convenience. Or I can just delete it without responding at all if I get that upset.

I'm sure I've made lowball offers before ... its what I'm willing to pay for an item, and who knows the seller may bite. Nothing to lose by offering, and certainly nothing to get upset at on the sellers end IMO.

Rob

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Posted By: E, Daniel

I mean, if it's insulting (and I get a little frustrated too, but only because my hopes of achieving the price I've set is getting dented by the lowball offer...maybe it really isn't worth the price I'm expecting..) to make low offers, shouldn't it be similarly insulting for sellers to list cards at twice their going rate?? Do I get to email those sellers and let them know that they are insulting mine and the hobby's intelligence with their preposterous price?
Happens all the time, but generally the opinion of such activity is 'more power to them, the card is worth what someone is willing to pay'.
The converse should also be true. If the card gets offers ridiculously lower than your price, either you paid too much yourself, the card market for that particular card has shifted and it doesn't warrant the same price (might be a real thin market for that card/condition), or you just have to be patient and wait for the collector of that particular card to come sniffing.

When trawling ebay for cards I have set my heart on I often end up at ebay stores who have scooped up some of the better/rarer cards at market price - and have them listed at about 1 1/2 to 2 times the price. If they sell they sell, if not they wait for the market to move up to that new price and then either sell or move the number up again to hopefully set an even better result for themselves.
Or, the listing suggests to make an offer. Which I do. I've purchased a couple really nice cards where my offer was hundreds of dollars less than than advertised, possibly 10-20% over the 'deal' most are looking to make on ebay, and at least 20-40% less than they've listed for.
And the seller was happy to move the card if it has been sitting too long in inventory - say for more than 6 months, and I was happy to pay over market for a card that might attract too much attention and activity in an open ebay auction. Though I still might have been accused of making a lowball offer.

Low ball offers? I'm just happy to see my card is getting attention and is one step closer to being sold so I can buy something else. Why complain about that?



Daniel



Edited for spelling

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Posted By: barrysloate

In the end it's just business.

If people make fair offers they usually get repeat business. If they typically make silly lowball offers they will eventually be ignored. It's all about dealing in good faith.

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Posted By: David B

Some people do send offers that they don't realize are low for various reasons. I have done it a couple times myself. Most recently I sent a Best Offer through ebay to a board member for a rare back T206. I did not know what a fair price for the card was so sent an offer to at least get the ball rolling. I didn't hear back so I contacted him a few days later, I explained that I was unsure how much was a decent price for the card. We came to an amount that was good for both of us. The card is one of the prides of my collection and a meet a good guy in the hobby. A nice, polite email goes a long way, at least in my book.

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Posted By: Joann

I also sent a low-ball offer once, just because I honestly didn't know the value. I don't remember where it started and where it ended up, but I am sensitive to the fact that sometimes people just don't know.

When I talk about an irritation factor I think of it as starting at way less than half the value - when it's somewhere around 25-33% or lower. At that point it's a bit harder to think someone honestly didn't know.

At half or better, or even slightly less, there's benefit of the doubt. Below that I'm irritated. I still am pretty polite, but if it happened more than once or twice with the same person (or it was just the right dang day), that might stop.

And Cobby ... GRRR. lolol. Funny post. No, it wasn't only worth $35. Actually, I guess I'm naive because $120 was pretty close and I didn't really bump up the BIN much.

J

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Posted By: dennis

if the person is offering 2 low grade common OJ's for that graded x/mint hall of famer, i think it would be OK to laugh in their face & ask them how stupid do you think i am?