Grading "Never Before Known" Cards

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Posted By: Jason Mishelow

I have been reading through this years REA auction catalog and was struck by this thought- How do the grading companies grade and/or authenticate these just discovered or only known to exsist cards. how do you know that something is real if no one has ever seen copy before. Were do they get the dimensions, the paper type ect. It seems that if you found old paper anyone could make up one of these cards. Most spcifically I am referring to the Babe Ruth Team Card from the Baltimore Sprtong News. Any thoughts out there on how the companies grade these cards

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Posted By: davidcycleback

The grading companies are often hesitant to grade newly discovered cards, and can wait a good amount of time before accepting them. They often won't holder cards of which they are unfamiliar, including ones they haven't heard about. It can take a while for a legitimate card to be holdered, and they often want historical evidence and learned outside opinion to back it up.

From what I've seen, the top graders are pretty accurate with their new old card additions, and they fall on the side of caution when considering a new issue. If, as you say, one makes a new card with old paper, PSA and SGC likely will not holder it, simply because they haven't heard of it before.

I saw the Ruth Baltimore photo. It appeared to be genuine. Whether or not it qualifies as a trading card is another question.

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Posted By: Mark L

David,
What happened to your logo? I liked the old one---thought it was an obligue referemce to Ossie Schreckengost.

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Unfortunately, David's old avatar could not be used in the daytime.

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Posted By: peter chao

David, I just have one question about the avatar, what is it?

Peter

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Posted By: Paul

Grading companies will sometimes slab new discoveries if enough info is present on the card, such as issuer, year, etc... It can be authenticated by inspecting the printing process, ink, cardstock to verify it's from that time period. It would be extremely difficult to duplicate vintage printing if at all. As for the size of the card, it would be the normal factory cut/trimming inspection.

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Posted By: leon

I wrote an aritcle in 1999 or 2000 (or somewhere in there) for 19th CenturyOnly about SGC holdering 4-5 of my cards, of which each series had not been holdered before by them. Whomever does the grading needs to do the research in order to make a good decision. Many times paper stock, dates played, and other things lead to a good conclusion. I had my FBH Kelly, 1869 Peck and Snyder, H813 NY Baseball Welch, Just So....and I think one other all graded at the same time. To that date SGC had never graded any of those before. (if I remember correctly)....best regards

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Posted By: boxingcardman

I got a call once from SGC in regard to an uncatalogued boxing card that a collector was trying to have encapsulated. I'd seen the card in person and knew what it was and was able to vouch for it so they could encapsulate. As for how I assess a card like that, I look at it, compare it with known cards from the era for printing technique, paper, aging, cut, etc., and decide what I think. See, ultimately, it all comes down to someone's opinion. SGC at least I know is very good about soliciting outside expert opinions on a rare or previously unencapsulated issue.

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Posted By: Rich Klein

In my days at the big B, I would sometimes get shown modern odd-ball cards, and we'd try to figure out what the cards were before they were encapsulated. Since these cards were modern, the financial stake was not the same as vintage; however, the pursuit of knowledge of figuring out what those cards were made for some fun times.

Regards
Rich

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Posted By: Bob

On the other hand, SGC told me 4-5 years ago that even though my uncatalogued Frank Chance NY Yankees caramel blank back (which looks almost identical to the E95 except for the team name which proves it was made several years later), was legit, there was never one seen like it and they wouldn't holder it. Since then a scan of the card has appeared (and still does) in SCD along with Kling and Davis, all blank backed, all identical to their E96 cards except the team name which shows each was traded or joined another club years after the recognized caramel card set was issued.
I am curious now, and might bring it to Cleveland, since all 3 companies have eased up on the slabbing of blank back cards as autentic...

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Posted By: Mike

I've hadseveral sent back, due to the graders not knowing what they were. They were slabbed for me, but without labels on top. I wasn't charged. I have no problem with them doing that. Protects them.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I had to do a lot of leg work to get the e90-3 Hofman variation slabbed and added to the checklist. After having a several very reputable dealers/collector look at the card, SGC said that if Lemke was willing to add it to the big book, then they would be willing to slab it. The card was sent to Bob, he agreed that it was a new variation after doing some research of his own, and the rest is history

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.